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quote:

Originally posted by owien this doesn't make me an elitest no but in the end i am a better producer for it.

If you can make ALL your own sounds, and make them good, then yes it makes you a better producer but doesnt necessarily mean you will make better tracks

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Originally posted by owien yes i am a creative producer and yes i like to know my work is my own and no i dont see why people would be happy with using sounds from other places.

There is no right or wrong but for many of us, myself included, we feel it is pointless in creating drum samples from scratch when there are so many out there ready to use. Individual one shots do not make a good track, or even a good drum loop but using the right ones in the right pattern with the right FX will make a good loop which will contribute to a good track. The individual samples aren't important and if I made my own, they would only sound like countless others made by others so there would be nothing unique or creative about it. That said, if you enjoy making your own, then cool, whatever gets the job done in the end.

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Originally posted by owien no one here has really proven using key sample packs makes for great tunes.

Yes and no one has proved that making your own samples from scratch leads to a better tune either. MIKE has made so fantastic tunes in his time, no question. But so have many other top producers who DO use sample packs. Its merely a different way of working but the end result could be good or bad whatever method you use.

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Originally posted by Subtle Like from the Roland 909 that had a crucial impact on earlier M.I.K.E productions ? and for the record, MIKE uses vengeance samples too. If you mean loops and stuff then i can definitely see why you would make ur own.

yes in places but 90% of his work was built from scratch.

and yes i do meen loops,bassline leads,fx should be best done by yourself.

because i dont see how building a track made up off sample packs is just not being anything more then pointless.

i guess i'm coming across as rude but i just dont get it.

it must be that i like to know every track i make is something witch will last and would want people and myself included to play over and over.

quote:

Originally posted by owien yes in places but 90% of his work was built from scratch. and yes i do meen loops,bassline leads,fx should be best done by yourself. because i dont see how building a track made up off sample packs is just not being anything more then pointless. i guess i'm coming across as rude but i just dont get it. it must be that i like to know every track i make is something witch will last and would want people and myself included to play over and over.

I can see that view, but drums ? that seems like a total waste of time to me, thats like making your own pencil for drawing.

Good samples can give you a huge advantage and time better spent on other parts of the track, when you make everything from scratch you are copying someone else anyways in your head.. which you then depending on your skill of course will end up spending time making a worse copy of something that you could have imported with a single click.

I understand the do it all yourself thing, but first things first, the most important thing in music is composing and mixing, this is what the most time and energy is going to, and it NEVER ends.
If you at the same time should be making every single sound from scratch at the same time.. then the progress of making music will go slowly.

Owien - Would you care to post some of your music? I don't believe I have ever met somebody so adamant about synthesizing every single sound they use. I'm not saying others do not synthesize everything, but you seem to be extremely anal about it. Would like to hear your music if you don't mind.

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Originally posted by StephenWiley Owien - Would you care to post some of your music? I don't believe I have ever met somebody so adamant about synthesizing every single sound they use. I'm not saying others do not synthesize everything, but you seem to be extremely anal about it. Would like to hear your music if you don't mind.

give me a good reason why i would not be so anal.

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Originally posted by owien witch is why he is seen as one of the best producers in the game. only my point of view of course.and why would i want people to come round a like my personal preffrances i just thought being orignal was something we all were after. so i guess that makes you the clown here not me a!

No that's not why he is seen as one of the best producers. He is seen as one of the best producers because he is more innovative, creative, and has his sound under his many different aliases down pat. His end product is no better using no samples than it would be using them.

And until you learn how to properly spell here you won't be able to call anyone but yourself a clown

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle I can see that view, but drums ? that seems like a total waste of time to me, thats like making your own pencil for drawing. Good samples can give you a huge advantage and time better spent on other parts of the track, when you make everything from scratch you are copying someone else anyways in your head.. which you then depending on your skill of course will end up spending time making a worse copy of something that you could have imported with a single click. I understand the do it all yourself thing, but first things first, the most important thing in music is composing and mixing, this is what the most time and energy is going to, and it NEVER ends. If you at the same time should be making every single sound from scratch at the same time.. then the progress of making music will go slowly.

well this is where i'm lost and it seems that people dont think it's an issue to use sample packs.

i just think it a important part of production to write all areas you need to make a good track yourself if you can.

i see your point about spending time on composing and arranging first.
but i can do this in draft with my own work i just write it in and play it back utill i think it a good tune. then make the changes it needs.

but it seems this debate will go on forever lol and i guess people have diffrent standards when it comes to music production.

i have learnd that by making your own shit leads to more personal and interesting tunes made by my fair hands and not anybody else.

Depends on what you want to achieve really, i just want to finish tracks, and the fastest way i can do that is to use samples.

I also want to make every bit of sound from scratch, but id rather much finish tracks, and as fast as possible..

If you have samples that most dont it will give you a good advantage.

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Originally posted by mfitterer1 No that's not why he is seen as one of the best producers. He is seen as one of the best producers because he is more innovative, creative, and has his sound under his many different aliases down pat. His end product is no better using no samples than it would be using them. And until you learn how to properly spell here you won't be able to call anyone but yourself a clown

well you got one over me then i guess.

and to address your point about m.i.k.e the reason his sound is down to pat is because he spent time on creating it witch is my hole fuckin point.

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Originally posted by Subtle If you have samples that most dont it will give you a good advantage.

bingo you have hit the nail on the head thank you someone has got my point.

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Originally posted by owien well this is where i'm lost and it seems that people dont think it's an issue to use sample packs.

What issue is that ? Ive found samples fitting in my tracks like something i would have never thought of myself, same goes for presets.

Making all sounds from scratch is big task, and is something that IMO should come last in the chain of things do learn.

But you do see why people use them ?

quote:

Originally posted by owien i guess i'm coming across as rude but i just dont get it. it must be that i like to know every track i make is something witch will last and would want people and myself included to play over and over.

I don't think you're coming across as rude, just firm in your opinion and there's nothing wrong with that. I probably half agree with much of what you're saying. But, I think that there's a disconnect between using samples and your last point above. A track can have longevity and a LOT of playtime even though it uses samples (MC Hammer - 'Can't Touch This', anybody?). What makes a track memorable IMO is NOT the tools used to create it, it's the emotional response that it strikes in the listener, and that's a result of having good songwriting skills and the ability to deliver excellent performances (even if the "performance" was written in the piano roll ).

Hardly any musician creates samples from scratch, except singers.
They use premade equipment, like a drumset, guitar, flute or any of the hundreds of instruments.

In EDM we are lucky to have everything of that at our disposal in one way or another, and we can use it! Go crazy.

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle What issue is that ? Ive found samples fitting in my tracks like something i would have never thought of myself, same goes for presets. Making all sounds from scratch is big task, and is something that IMO should come last in the chain of things do learn. But you do see why people use them ?

yes because it takes so little time to compleate a tune


Making all sounds from scratch is big task, and is something that IMO should come last in the chain of things do learn.[/QUOTE why last? i meen if you want a big riff in your track then how will you learn to make it?


What issue is that ? Ive found samples fitting in my tracks like something i would have never thought of myself, same goes for presets.[/QUOTE then how will you ever learn to create the sounds you want or need?
if you dont hear it straight away then you use presets right?
or wait untill one fits?

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Originally posted by owien why last? i meen if you want a big riff in your track then how will you learn to make it? then how will you ever learn to create the sounds you want or need? if you dont hear it straight away then you use presets right? or wait untill one fits?

Because i think one should use ANYTHING that will sounds good in your track, whether it be samples, presets, ripping, making own synths or stomping a kickdrum with your foot.

I create loads of sounds, but the point is that i dont limit myself to anything, if i find a loop, sample or preset that sounds good i use it.

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle Because i think one should use ANYTHING that will sounds good in your track, whether it be samples, presets, ripping, making own synths or stomping a kickdrum with your foot. I create loads of sounds, but the point is that i dont limit myself to anything, if i find a loop, sample or preset that sounds good i use it.

fair dues i respect the method you use

Sorry a hi hat is a hi hat whether you use adsr and white noise or a vec pack. I cant stand this guys music that I know because all he does is rip samples and then put beats to them. I would not use for example a sampled bassline or riff but drums? Surely you have to draw the line at drum samples, Owien your telling me you will make better tracks then me or anyone else because i/we use a kick sample and you use a synth I dont believe you for a second.

Answer this what if you were trying to make a track that needed a real hi hat or a real kick drum that has to be recorded?

quote:

Originally posted by owien fair dues i respect the method you use

Your method is fine, but for drums ?
Except for kickdrums i see no reason to create those from scratch whatsoever, when you import a hi hat sample into the sequencer you start adding effects and adjusting length to it and shape it into the mix, same goes with all samples, creating something new out of something else.

quote:

Originally posted by Sonic_c Sorry a hi hat is a hi hat whether you use adsr and white noise or a vec pack. I cant stand this guys music that I know because all he does is rip samples and then put beats to them. I would not use for example a sampled bassline or riff but drums? Surely you have to draw the line at drum samples, Owien your telling me you will make better tracks then me or anyone else because i/we use a kick sample and you use a synth I dont believe you for a second. Answer this what if you were trying to make a track that needed a real hi hat or a real kick drum that has to be recorded?

nope because i have my own pre made if i wish to make more intresting perc the i stop and make it.

my time has been largely spent learning a pro daw and making all my own sounds apart from the 909 kick drum i use witch i still spent fucking ages on to make sure it fits with the rest of my productions.

the hole point is in time i would of learnd enough so that i can put ideas in full working tracks knowing its all my own and also knowing i wont have the issue of will it all fit how will it work ect ect.

it just meens at the moment i dont really have many tracks im proud of yet.

quote:

Originally posted by owien nope because i have my own pre made if i wish to make more intresting perc the i stop and make it. my time has been largely spent learning a pro daw and making all my own sounds apart from the 909 kick drum i use witch i still spent fucking ages on to make sure it fits with the rest of my productions. the hole point is in time i would of learnd enough so that i can put ideas in full working tracks knowing its all my own and also knowing i wont have the issue of will it all fit how will it work ect ect. it just meens at the moment i dont really have many tracks im proud of yet.

I think it will take you longer to get tracks you are proud of because you are doing 2 things - trying to write tracks and also you are sound designing.
I realised a while ago that id better leave the sound designing to guys who do exactly that, cos thats what they do and they are bloody good at it, and that i should get on with trying to make tunes. I could spend ages trying to make patches and sounds and probably end up not using a quarter of them.
Thats not to say i use presets all of the time - sometimes you just can find the preset you need and have to design the sound from scratch / edit a preset to my liking

But i appreciate your efforts in doing the whole thing completely, just saying i think it might take you a longer time to get to where u wanna be....

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Originally posted by evo8 I think it will take you longer to get tracks you are proud of because you are doing 2 things - trying to write tracks and also you are sound designing. I realised a while ago that id better leave the sound designing to guys who do exactly that, cos thats what they do and they are bloody good at it, and that i should get on with trying to make tunes. I could spend ages trying to make patches and sounds and probably end up not using a quarter of them. Thats not to say i use presets all of the time - sometimes you just can find the preset you need and have to design the sound from scratch / edit a preset to my liking But i appreciate your efforts in doing the whole thing completely, just saying i think it might take you a longer time to get to where u wanna be....

yes it is taking me longer to make the type of tracks i want to the point where i have allmost given up on it all.

and yes if i wish to make a good track from start to end my way then it can take up to a good month if not longer lol.and sometime not at all but my efforts are just starting to pay off and in the end will show in my work.

quote:

Originally posted by owien yes it is taking me longer to make the type of tracks i want to the point where i have allmost given up on it all. and yes if i wish to make a good track from start to end my way then it can take up to a good month if not longer lol.and sometime not at all but my efforts are just starting to pay off and in the end will show in my work.

fair dues man

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik I don't think you're coming across as rude, just firm in your opinion and there's nothing wrong with that. I probably half agree with much of what you're saying. But, I think that there's a disconnect between using samples and your last point above. A track can have longevity and a LOT of playtime even though it uses samples (MC Hammer - 'Can't Touch This', anybody?). What makes a track memorable IMO is NOT the tools used to create it, it's the emotional response that it strikes in the listener, and that's a result of having good songwriting skills and the ability to deliver excellent performances (even if the "performance" was written in the piano roll ).

A point that bears repeating, especially on this forum.

quote:

Originally posted by owien my time has been largely spent learning a pro daw and making all my own sounds apart from the 909 kick drum i use witch i still spent fucking ages on to make sure it fits with the rest of my productions.

It'll be interesting to hear this 909 kick drum. Sample sets have such a massive range of kick drums, it's hard to imagine another producer who wanted to copy your sound wouldn't be able to find a sample that's extremely close, tweak it slightly, and end up with an almost identical sound.

The bit about calling producers who use samples "lazy" is inaccurate. A producer may be putting in 50 or more hours per week into their music, and choose to allocate their hours differently to you - rather than spending hours on designing drum samples, they'll spend those hours on composition, or on crafting the flow of the song.

Some people may draw in all their volume automation by hand, and call anyone who ever uses a compressor "lazy", since they're doing something easier to achieve the same result. Well, good luck to them. In the end, all that matters is the end result, not how it was achieved.

quote:

Originally posted by derail It'll be interesting to hear this 909 kick drum. Sample sets have such a massive range of kick drums, it's hard to imagine another producer who wanted to copy your sound wouldn't be able to find a sample that's extremely close, tweak it slightly, and end up with an almost identical sound. The bit about calling producers who use samples "lazy" is inaccurate. A producer may be putting in 50 or more hours per week into their music, and choose to allocate their hours differently to you - rather than spending hours on designing drum samples, they'll spend those hours on composition, or on crafting the flow of the song. Some people may draw in all their volume automation by hand, and call anyone who ever uses a compressor "lazy", since they're doing something easier to achieve the same result. Well, good luck to them. In the end, all that matters is the end result, not how it was achieved.

yes it's all about using time wisely i agree and i now also see why people may say sound design is not really a important part of it. i;m not trying to forse people here to do that.

their are many areas of music producthion as you stated above witch are just a improtant true enough.

bottom line is i'm not affraid to make tunes that are differnt to everybody else even if they dont get it or its a we bit under par where quatly is concerned

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