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-- Skill vs Talent
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quote:

Originally posted by SDM no my god to be an American u really dont read English well. concentration problems??? i said that my early experiences with these big trance parties was the trigger to making me wanna dj, and then later decided to try produce again (i tried producing at early ago too but with no success as i didnt really have any vision). by the time i understood how stuff was made I was mostly tired of those parties, and made the music for myself instead. I dont see whats your problem.

A : I"m not American
B : You really don't express yourself clearly
C : You said you need to experience a club/Rave to make a good song , then posted later that you don't go to clubs and are not part of the scene. Its just a little fucking weird for someone so concerned about talent , success and all that comes with that.

you even said so yourself you are a complete twit when it comes to language. A little odd that you start criticizing other people's exposition at this point no ?

well if ur not american and i myself are terrible in english its kinda hard communicating really lol, we should just end it, its not going anywhere. i just saw your flag and expected you to understand me even though i have bad language but even danish people or germans understand me better haha.

back on topic, yeah i think one need to experience a club in order to make a good club track. but one doesnt need to stay at the club his whole life, its possible to move on and "leave the scene" while still be able to remember how it was so you can recreate the feeling it gave u back then, in a track. call it nostalgia if you want to. i just think that you should have seen it yourself, but you dont need to be a part of it.

i also think u have missunderstood me or mixed me with someone else here, im not concerned about talent or success or anything, im was just trying to say that if you succeed at a early age your most likely to last really short. for what reasons im have no idea, could be lots of things as stated earlier (moving on, coke, lost inspiration, pressure, anticlimax, etc etc).

think its time to end it, were not going anywhere with this, pointless discussions with loads missunderstandings and shit, im just saying my opinions.

Re: Re: Re: Skill vs Talent

quote:

Originally posted by Fledz It doesn't mean everything as there are many variables but it certainly is a large part of being succesful in any industry and no I'm not going to post examples because music is subjective and what I consider a great musician may not necessarily be a great musician to you.

I bet we agree on at least a few people being great. Why not list some who started at 18+?

Mainly because I'd be lying if I said I took an active interest in when they started. It's the end product that counts for me and what they went through to get there. Whether they learned piano at 5 or bought their first sequencer at 16 makes no difference to me.

I wish I did do piano and learned chords when I was little but I didn't and dwelling on that will get me nowhere. There's no reason I can't learn now.
We're not going to agree anyway, so there's no point continuing this.

Okay.

quote:

Originally posted by SDM well if ur not american and i myself are terrible in english its kinda hard communicating really lol, we should just end it, its not going anywhere. i just saw your flag and expected you to understand me even though i have bad language but even danish people or germans understand me better haha.

I didn't realize Americans invented english. It is hard to communicate because you don't express what you mean in a clear fashion.

so what are u talking over there? african? hispanic? french? hindu? japanese?

quote:

Originally posted by SDM so what are u talking over there? african? hispanic? french? hindu? japanese?

there's a language that is known as African?

quote:

Originally posted by EgosXII there's a language that is known as African?

i dont fucking know what the hell their talking down there and i dont care. they oviously cant communicate at all.

quote:

Originally posted by SDM i dont fucking know what the hell their talking down there and i dont care. they oviously cant communicate at all.

Neither can you. What's your point?

my point is im going to a hockey match now. bye.

You've ruined my thread

LOL

Re: Re: Re: Skill vs Talent

quote:

Originally posted by Fledz It doesn't mean everything as there are many variables but it certainly is a large part of being succesful in any industry and no I'm not going to post examples because music is subjective and what I consider a great musician may not necessarily be a great musician to you. Who the fuck is bubbletoe?

How dare you not recognize Anjuna family?

quote:

Originally posted by SDM my point is im going to a hockey match now. bye.

You gonna go speak Canadian to your mates?

Yay, another thread where people reject decades or even centuries of scientific and domain knowledge in favour of various forms of wishful thinking and other fallacies, proving conclusively once again that opinions are like assholes (everybody has one).

This one's a real gem:

quote:

Originally posted by SDM Some of my favorits like Underworld, Prodigy, Moby, Daft Punk, where all pretty old when successing. Marco V was pretty old when getting world-wide popular. SVD was pretty young and he lastet 1,5 years.

Do you believe that all of these producers became successful the next day after they took up music? Lol, almost all of these people were intensely wrapped up in music from their mid-teens at the latest. They had to work for years and years to get where they are.

quote:

Originally posted by Fledz It doesn't mean everything as there are many variables but it certainly is a large part of being succesful in any industry and no I'm not going to post examples because music is subjective and what I consider a great musician may not necessarily be a great musician to you.

There's a critical difference between "skilled/talented" and "successful." It may very well be possible to quickly become successful in some particular field through hard work alone, but that doesn't mean you have anywhere near the same level of expertise as the masters, who have been doing it since they were in diapers.



Even the "no genetic advantage" hypothesis in the OP is a canard. You'd have to deny the effectiveness of IQ and aptitude tests on children, calling into question several generations of mainstream psychology and cognitive science. You folks can choose to believe whatever you want, it's a free country, but the scientific fact is that some people DO have a higher learning aptitude than others. To truly be "great" and not just "good", you have to be one of these people, AND start at an early age, AND work your ass off for most of your childhood and early adult years.

You can still produce some very good and commercially-successful tunes if you started 2 years ago, but if you think they're going to sound anything like BT, even after 10 years, you're insane.

BT sucks. he need to learn that 90% of the time less is more. Fibonacci Sequence is the exception but im guessing he was high or something when making it caus he never made anything like it before or after, not even close.

Agree with much of what was said by the person who wrote that blog in the OP.

But I would not worry if you did not start at 8 or 12 years old, just keep developing your musical and technical aspects to your craft. The Producers who are most successful these days, are not much of musical geniuses, they are more technical geniuses, and have been able to manipulate their equipment. Or they had a talented engineer that made some really great sounding music with them. Go ahead study accross the board, you will see the best EDM music is actually the most well mixed music, but the musical content itself could be of a wide range of quality, but when it comes to the mix, there are no exceptions.

Started doing something musical an early age (12). I think that having a passion to do something musical at an early age asked me to listen to music in a different way than I normally would have as just a listener. So when I would hear a melody or arrangement or different instruments playing, besides enjoying what I chose to listen to, i'd also always listen deconstructively. So from 12 till 20s, I'd break down the parts to a track, and also create in my head where I speculated the track to go next, or where I want to hear the piece of music go.

I could memorize in detail the musical parts and arrangements. This was most enjoyable with songs with interesting arrangements and that had a lot of instruments sharing space. I would constantly create the next few bars in my head as the song progressed. After getting into production, this natural processing of music I listen to went to the next level, to the point that it kinda takes away from music I hear, because i'm always listening with deconstructive and critical ears. I enjoy music still, but for different reasons than I did before I started producing my own.

Starting something musical and playing in a live situation at an early age has helped me, but i'm not sure if it is essential towards becoming great someday...

quote:

Originally posted by Kismet7 Agree with much of what was said by the person who wrote that blog in the OP. But I would not worry if you did not start at 8 or 12 years old, just keep developing your musical and technical aspects to your craft. The Producers who are most successful these days, are not much of musical geniuses, they are more technical geniuses, and have been able to manipulate their equipment. Or they had a talented engineer that made some really great sounding music with them. Go ahead study accross the board, you will see the best EDM music is actually the most well mixed music, but the musical content itself could be of a wide range of quality, but when it comes to the mix, there are no exceptions. Started doing something musical an early age (12). I think that having a passion to do something musical at an early age asked me to listen to music in a different way than I normally would have as just a listener. So when I would hear a melody or arrangement or different instruments playing, besides enjoying what I chose to listen to, i'd also always listen deconstructively. So from 12 till 20s, I'd break down the parts to a track, and also create in my head where I speculated the track to go next, or where I want to hear the piece of music go. I could memorize in detail the musical parts and arrangements. This was most enjoyable with songs with interesting arrangements and that had a lot of instruments sharing space. I would constantly create the next few bars in my head as the song progressed. After getting into production, this natural processing of music I listen to went to the next level, to the point that it kinda takes away from music I hear, because i'm always listening with deconstructive and critical ears. I enjoy music still, but for different reasons than I did before I started producing my own. Starting something musical and playing in a live situation at an early age has helped me, but i'm not sure if it is essential towards becoming great someday...

lets not stop this thread, its so awesome. heres a new angle: theres no such thing as talent, no one is born musical geniuses. great musicians are only that because they have been widely/largely exposed to great music and at the same time have the interest in it enough to analyze it and understand it, and then learn the tools needed to create something themselves. peoples ears are mostly the same so we have all the same possibilities from birth to be great musicians. from there its all about interest and being curious. I know people that are musically retarded and i totally see why when i visit them. they dont even have a stereo, and their CDs are a couple of "Absolute Music" compilations they got from their aunt in a birthday 10 years ago. Then I know people that have good taste in music but dont know shit about how music is made etc. And i find out that his father was a dj in the 70-80s. Conclussion, theres no such thing as talent, but theres experienced listeners. And skillz is just plain practise combined with interest and understanding. Let the flames begin.

quote:

Originally posted by SDM I know people that are musically retarded and i totally see why when i visit them. they dont even have a stereo, and their CDs are a couple of "Absolute Music" compilations they got from their aunt in a birthday 10 years ago.

Ever think that they have no music because they are "musically retarded" and find it hard to understand? There is such a thing as tone-deafness, you know.

but they sing along on shitty pop-tracks. their simply not interested.

quote:

Originally posted by SDM BT sucks. he need to learn that 90% of the time less is more. Fibonacci Sequence is the exception but im guessing he was high or something when making it caus he never made anything like it before or after, not even close.

No. You lose.

quote:

Originally posted by SDM great musicians are only that because they have been widely/largely exposed to great music and at the same time have the interest in it enough to analyze it and understand it, and then learn the tools needed to create something themselves.

Once again, you've attempted to substitute wishful thinking for actual facts.

What's being said here is "oh, I listen to a lot of music, so how hard could it be to play or to make?" Just try to imagine how this statement would sound in another context. "I drive cars a lot, how hard could it be to build one?" Or, "I work on Windows all day, how hard could it be to design an operating system?" The only people who would say these things are people who are so ignorant of the craft that they don't even know how to recognize skill (or talent), much less obtain it.

Intelligent people don't just pull ideas out of their asses and call them theories. It's great that you're imaginative enough or smoked enough weed to come up with these little nuggets, but maybe you should spend your energy actually researching the issue instead of trying to convince people on a forum, because without any evidence, these claims aren't worth shit.

quote:

Talent is greek for �divine gift�, and since I do not believe in anything divine, I do not believe in predisposed skills.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/07/m...&pagewanted=all

quote:

when it comes to choosing a life path, you should do what you love � because if you don't love it, you are unlikely to work hard enough to get very good.

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