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-- TTC fares going up big time... AGAIN!
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saw a fb event on rider's strike for nov 13th.. its actually something that i would support

the ttc union is the problem.. at this point i don't see how else to get them to downsize and get the payroll in check unless riders start boycotting the service.. toll booth collectors making $100k is an insult!

though i am against completely disolving the union.. it needs to operate within parameters that make financial sense to taxpayers

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Originally posted by mute79 though i am against completely disolving the union.. it needs to operate within parameters that make financial sense to taxpayers

why are u against disolving it then? The whole point of the union is to get as much as they can out of the government for their members no matter what. And we have the results!

We need to get rid of the union. They would rather have fare hikes than job cuts. Its not in their interest as an entity otherwise

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It's reached the point where simply to apply for a major international sports or cultural event is an admission of civic failure. Whether it's the Olympics themselves or even, as in Toronto's more modest case, the Pan Am Games, the conclusion is the same: This must be a city that hasn't got its act together. This must be a city desperate for the torrent of cash and energy unleashed by a global athletic event to rise above the inertia, the political impasse, the sheer passivity of business-as-usual. Why else would anyone want the hassle? So it's no surprise Toronto's argument for the 2015 Pan Ams boils down to need. If the city and region were to win the Games, Toronto, Ontario and Canada would finally have to address issues that have been ignored for decades. Transit and housing come to mind, both abandoned by "senior" governments years ago. Of course, everyone hopes Toronto gets the nod; so many times has the city been passed over, it boasts a world-class inferiority complex. In fact, the world loves Toronto; there's nowhere people would rather be. It's just that ... It's just that we've rested on our (non-athletic) laurels too long. In the '70s, Toronto was The City That Works; it has since become The City That Can't Keep Up. No longer do we hold up the TTC as a North American success story; The Better Way has become The Bitter Way. And now we're looking at fare increases to avoid cuts that would devastate the system. The last time Toronto competed for a major international event (not the Olympics) was in 2006, when we went after the 2015 World's Fair, which was eventually awarded to Milan. That fell apart because the three levels of government were unable to submit a bid by the deadline. This time, Toronto's chances look much better. Though the Pan Ams aren't quite the Olympics, they're large enough to kick-start a building program that, done well, could benefit the city hugely. Just ask Franco Vaccarino, principal of the University of Toronto Scarborough Campus. It stands to gain a state-of-the-art aquatic centre, one of the game's "legacy facilities," as well as the new LRT line that would run through the campus along Military Trail Dr. "We're on the radar now," says a smiling Vaccarino. "Scarborough is where the growth will happen. The Games would have a huge impact." Think how Barcelona used the 1992 Olympics to transform itself. That city serves as the model for Olympic host wannabes, a shining example of how to buy a new city spending money on sports. It can be done, and Torontonians must hope it can be done here. Having created a multi-level governance structure focused on internal wrangling, the odds aren't great. On the other hand, the pressure of mounting the Games might inspire an outbreak of cooperation among our bickering governments, at least temporarily. If it doesn't, we face more of the same. The subways, the light rail vehicles and bus lines, the affordable housing and recreational facilities that come with the Games will fall into the cracks. But just as the city continues to thrive because of investments made decades ago, the spending prompted by the Pan Am Games would enable future generations to inhabit a much tougher city than the one we have today. Toronto's failed Olympic bid was in many ways the opposite of Beijing's. China needed the Games to show the world what it can do; Toronto needed them to show itself what it can do. Christopher Hume can be reached at [email protected]

http://www.thestar.com/sports/panam...the-subway?bn=1

For the last decade, toronto has been a city of losers..

and really it started 30 years ago with the anti everything crowd cancelling things left right and centre.

I am hoping for a miracle in the next election but i fear it will be more of the same since torontonians have a very low political learning curve.

Mafia needs to take over this city...

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Originally posted by *~LiSa-LoO~* I too love change. Anytime I see even a penny on the ground I'll pick it up. So many people get rid of their change...and I welcome it with open arms! I have a big piggy bank with all my pennies, nickels and dimes. I can't wait until it's full so I can roll it! It's going to be so much fun!!!

there are machines that you can throw all of it into and it will give you back the money in bills!

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Originally posted by Spam What do WE, the customer, get for this increased fare? Do we get an improvement of service, cleaner buses/trains, ANYTHING of note besides continued service? No. What we get is a big fat raise for TTC employees (not to say they don't deserve a fair wage, but come on, it's getting ridiculous what some of these employees make for the jobs they do), a continuation of the same shitty 'service' that's been provided for eons, and another year of uncontrolled spending that inevitably results in NEXT year's increase in fares.

This is my biggest gripe with this :/

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Originally posted by StereoPrincess anytime you want to give me a quarter since you don't need it please think of me. i will take all your spare change. I love change! i wish i could live in a house made of change.

I can probably have it ready to move in to by tomorrow @ noon....

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Originally posted by Jayx1 why are u against disolving it then?

because you would be legalising slavery

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Originally posted by mute79 because you would be legalising slavery

LOL!!!!!!! ive never worked for a union and ive done just fine thanks. As have most people. In fact some people i know who work in unions complain that because its hard for people the get fired, the middle management becomes lazy, corrupt and inefficient.

Que sopresa!

I've worked in unionized workplaces for over 4 years, and I can tell you that a fresh graduate or someone with a bit of ambition would just want to slit his wrists open so slow (and lazy) people are compared to the private sector.

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Originally posted by mute79 . toll booth collectors making $100k is an insult!

A booth collectors SALARY closer to 55k

It takes more than 60 hours/wk to bring that income to more than 100

I'm not sure why people have such a hard time wrapping their heads around this.

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Originally posted by MissK there are machines that you can throw all of it into and it will give you back the money in bills!

The ones I've seen take a portion of the money though. I'm greedy! lol Plus, I love rolling coins and organizing.

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Originally posted by miketg23 A booth collectors SALARY closer to 55k It takes more than 60 hours/wk to bring that income to more than 100 I'm not sure why people have such a hard time wrapping their heads around this.

even that is way too much

that job is work $15 $16 bucks an hour at most. What kind of education does it take?

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Originally posted by Jayx1 LOL!!!!!!! ive never worked for a union and ive done just fine thanks. As have most people. In fact some people i know who work in unions complain that because its hard for people the get fired, the middle management becomes lazy, corrupt and inefficient. Que sopresa!

i've witnessed an executive at a private organisation telling highly specialized staff in an IT sector that they 'better get real' about their compensation if they want to 'compete in the global market'.. what he was implying was that they can't expect to be making a 6 figure income since their position could be outsourced to india.. its bullshit, because if they thought it was more profitable, they would've done it anyways

its this type of threatening demeanour that needs to be stopped, as it gives unfair leverage to the idiocy that is the upper management.. and its typical of corporate mis-management whose interest is solely in maximizing personal bonuses at expense of the general workforce

you get rid of the unions, this will get out of control (as if it hasn't already).. on the other hand, the ttc union has gotten out of control and needs to be put in its place

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Originally posted by mute79 i've witnessed an executive at a private organisation telling highly specialized staff in an IT sector that they 'better get real' about their compensation if they want to 'compete in the global market'.. what he was implying was that they can't expect to be making a 6 figure income since their position could be outsourced to india.. its bullshit, because if they thought it was more profitable, they would've done it anyways its this type of threatening demeanour that needs to be stopped, as it gives unfair leverage to the idiocy that is the upper management.. and its typical of corporate mis-management whose interest is solely in maximizing personal bonuses at expense of the general workforce you get rid of the unions, this will get out of control (as if it hasn't already).. on the other hand, the ttc union has gotten out of control and needs to be put in its place

And on the other side of the coin, unions have helped make the cost of doing business so high that often times companies have no choice but to fold or go to india.

Im glad you brought up the third world. One of the reasons they are kicking our asses is due to their pro business stance and encouragement of innovation. Which is more than i can say for modern canada. Cheaper wages can only get you so far when it comes to outsourcing. They are going the full monty over there and quite frankly we make it even easier for them to do so.

Your union arguement in the matter of the public sector is moot because most public sector jobs cant be outsourced. I dont think you can drive a bus in toronto being in india for example.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 even that is way too much that job is work $15 $16 bucks an hour at most. What kind of education does it take?

Granted, it is a very generous salary for what the job requires, but a collector does not get paid 100k without a lot of sacrifice.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 even that is way too much that job is work $15 $16 bucks an hour at most. What kind of education does it take?

i agree w/ you there.. $15/hr but give them full benefits if they intend to make a career out of it.. anything beyond that is ridiculous

TTC Fare Structure, June 1996:

Adult fares: $2 cash; 10 tickets for $16; Metropass $83

Children 12 and under: 50� cash; 10 tickets for $4

Students and Seniors (with ID): $1.35 cash; 10 tickets for $10.70; Metropass $73

Day Pass: $6.50

Looks like about a 50% increase on the fares
No one likes inflation but compared to other major expenses this does not seem out of line when compared to the cost of other major expenses. Groceries, night or a meal out, housing and especially gas (100 % as it was 49.9 in 1998) which the TTC requires plenty of, all seem to have gone up at a comparable rate.

If we want to compare our TTC to world class cities, try going for an end to end ride on the Tube in London paying single fare

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Originally posted by malek I've worked in unionized workplaces for over 4 years, and I can tell you that a fresh graduate or someone with a bit of ambition would just want to slit his wrists open so slow (and lazy) people are compared to the private sector.

I've worked in a union environment for 10 years and it's not as lazy as you might think. I don't get any paid holidays, I don't get paid for stat holidays, I have no sick days,I have no job security or seniority, and if I stop producing I can and will be laid off at anytime with zero severance. It happened to a coworker of 7 years this summer

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Originally posted by mute79 i agree w/ you there.. $15/hr but give them full benefits if they intend to make a career out of it.. anything beyond that is ridiculous

it shouldnt even be a career any more than mcdonalds should be. You know what i mean?

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Originally posted by miketg23 TTC Fare Structure, June 1996: Adult fares: $2 cash; 10 tickets for $16; Metropass $83 Children 12 and under: 50� cash; 10 tickets for $4 Students and Seniors (with ID): $1.35 cash; 10 tickets for $10.70; Metropass $73 Day Pass: $6.50 Looks like about a 50% increase on the fares No one likes inflation but compared to other major expenses this does not seem out of line when compared to the cost of other major expenses. Groceries, night or a meal out, housing and especially gas (100 % as it was 49.9 in 1998) which the TTC requires plenty of, all seem to have gone up at a comparable rate. If we want to compare our TTC to world class cities, try going for an end to end ride on the Tube in London paying single fare

But look at the service you get for it!!!!

Also for them, the rates are not that expensive. When using canadian pesos its damned expensive!

As for inflation.. TTC rates are beyond that of inflation. No doubt there should be increases but not at the rate they have been going. Furthermore, we pay world class rates for a substandard service. The biggest liability the TTC has are salaries and you know it.

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Originally posted by mute79 i've witnessed an executive at a private organisation telling highly specialized staff in an IT sector that they 'better get real' about their compensation if they want to 'compete in the global market'.. what he was implying was that they can't expect to be making a 6 figure income since their position could be outsourced to india.. its bullshit, because if they thought it was more profitable, they would've done it anyways its this type of threatening demeanour that needs to be stopped, as it gives unfair leverage to the idiocy that is the upper management.. and its typical of corporate mis-management whose interest is solely in maximizing personal bonuses at expense of the general workforce you get rid of the unions, this will get out of control (as if it hasn't already).. on the other hand, the ttc union has gotten out of control and needs to be put in its place

And yet it does get stopped - without unions, which don't exist in the IT sector.

When this mismanagement happens in the private sector, especially the IT sector or any technology-dependent sector, highly-qualified employees leave, taking their skills and experience with them, and the company dies a slow death, especially if any of those people decide to work for a competitor.

It may sound unsympathetic but if any of these highly qualified IT professionals listened to that speech and didn't call his bluff then maybe they don't deserve the kind of compensation they're asking for at all. We all know that the top engineers and IT workers are as much as 10 times more productive than the bottom rung (which includes most offshore IT firms) and produce better quality; add to that the language barrier and the overhead and extra management requirements of dealing with what is essentially an extremely remote satellite office, and the net cost could easily come out to 3-5 times more than finding and paying qualified employees at home.

If anybody who's worked in this industry for more than a few years doesn't know this or can't articulate it properly then I'd argue that they haven't really earned a 6-figure salary. Inflation aside, that rung is still reserved for people with technology and business skills, and maybe the upper-echelon multi-billion dollar software houses like Microsoft and Google. Specialization in and of itself doesn't guarantee you better compensation, it merely provides the employee with additional negotiating leverage, same as a union.

Almost everybody who's lived the corporate life has a panoply of horror stories and WTF moments to share, but none of it means that unions are the answer. Most of what I've seen in the private sector seems downright tame compared to the unionized public sector.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 it shouldnt even be a career any more than mcdonalds should be. You know what i mean?

well yea, but obviously some have chosen to make a career out of it..

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Originally posted by miketg23 TTC Fare Structure, June 1996: Adult fares: $2 cash; 10 tickets for $16; Metropass $83 Children 12 and under: 50� cash; 10 tickets for $4 Students and Seniors (with ID): $1.35 cash; 10 tickets for $10.70; Metropass $73 Day Pass: $6.50 Looks like about a 50% increase on the fares No one likes inflation but compared to other major expenses this does not seem out of line when compared to the cost of other major expenses. Groceries, night or a meal out, housing and especially gas (100 % as it was 49.9 in 1998) which the TTC requires plenty of, all seem to have gone up at a comparable rate. If we want to compare our TTC to world class cities, try going for an end to end ride on the Tube in London paying single fare

what you fail to comprehend is that even in 1996 they were OVERPAID!

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