Originally posted by PETRAN
Maybe EDM was more innovative in the 90s but it is unfortunately not much anymore), it is destined for the clubs (big or small) and festivals with the purpose to make people dance and have fun with some good/serious money involved in the process. It is natural that producers don't have the freedom to play around and innovate and many of them probably don't want to. The vast majority of EDM producers want to make tracks that "work miracles in the dancefloor" and make "people move" (bodily or mentally). Trance is no exception.
The reason that people bash epic-trance is probably because the elements of epic-trance, such as the gigantic super-saw lines and breaks, stand-out (are more "salient" and distinctive) in comparison to the elements of deep-house tracks (which are also the same during the last 10 years or more). Furthermore, it is a sound that reachers to big (younger) audiences, has cross-over mainstream success and it is played by big dj names who are literally (blindly)adored by the younger fans. Because these aspects are associated with pop paradigms, it is natural to lead to elitist-hate, not so because of the structure of the music itself (which a lot of it is not musically inferior to a funky house, deep house or a techno track) but because of the culture and behaviours associated with it.
Indeed, which other genres actually did evolve lately?
Also looking at the equipment I think nothing much changed for the past years compared to late 90's. Don't think there is a lot which wasn't possible then compared to now. Then it gets more difficult to make something really new. Bet that's also why many producers added vocals. It's much more work and much more exiting to producers, because they have an element of which they have less control. Of course also making tracks more commercial and money will have contributed, but certainly are not the main causes. If we would make a list of all producers which added vocals at some point I bet that would be surprisingly long. Also remixes get more interesting, but that's my view.
I still think producers have the freedom to play around an innovate, because most won't earn the amounts of money like the Armins and Tiesto's. But the chance to get successfull is much smaller compared to the 90's when people were much more open minded for anything new.
Can't remember that there were DJ's which acted as a red blanket to people when there name got mentioned somewhere.
Posted by Clovis on Nov-29-2009 21:33:
I just think trance like this is funny because any music that is that fucking epic makes me laugh. It's like a Michael Bay movie.
Posted by MrJiveBoJingles on Nov-29-2009 21:45:
quote:
Originally posted by Clovis
I just think trance like this is funny because any music that is that fucking epic makes me laugh. It's like a Michael Bay movie.
Nonsense, epic music is awesome. Throw that out and you can pretty much get rid of all full-orchestra music written from Beethoven to Debussy. The "epic" is not a bad thing in itself, it just gets laughably bad when attempted by people with very limited musical skill. ;-)
Posted by Clovis on Nov-29-2009 21:58:
quote:
Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Nonsense, epic music is awesome. Throw that out and you can pretty much get rid of all full-orchestra music written from Beethoven to Debussy. The "epic" is not a bad thing in itself, it just gets laughably bad when attempted by people with very limited musical skill. ;-)
Yeah but thats the thing, full orchestra music only works in certain situations imo, I mean, if you're at a house party and someone is blasting that its just weird. Epic music can be great in film, Michael Bay aside, and in a big beautiful concert hall performed by professionals, but I don't want to hear music for the end of the world when I go out.
I didn't mean that all epic music is ridiculous, I just think that as far as clubbing music goes, it is.
Posted by Leniu on Nov-29-2009 22:11:
quote:
Originally posted by PETRAN
Because these aspects are associated with pop paradigms, it is natural to lead to elitist-hate, not so because of the structure of the music itself (which a lot of it is not musically inferior to a funky house, deep house or a techno track) but because of the culture and behaviours associated with it.
I can honestly say I dont have that "elitist-hate" complex. I have about 50 semi-modern uplifting tracks in my collection that I love listening to and I also think Tiesto is an amazing producer (at least if you ignore the new album). My favorite tracks vary from tunnel trance, gabriel and dresden, in search of sunrise, prog house, tribal, benny benassi, robert babicz, etc.etc. to old-ass pvd sound.
The only thing I hate is when producers try to follow a "formula for success", which is most evident in uplifting trance these days. Instead of spending time to develop a new sound it seems that the philosophy is "the more alike my last track, the more success it will gain!" That's the part that really grinds my gears, and its not confined to uplifting trance, minimal producers have similar vice, really...
Posted by nefardec on Nov-29-2009 22:18:
quote:
Originally posted by Clovis
Yeah but thats the thing, full orchestra music only works in certain situations imo, I mean, if you're at a house party and someone is blasting that its just weird. Epic music can be great in film, Michael Bay aside, and in a big beautiful concert hall performed by professionals, but I don't want to hear music for the end of the world when I go out.
I didn't mean that all epic music is ridiculous, I just think that as far as clubbing music goes, it is.
gotta disagree with you there.
there is plenty of good electronic 'epic' music for clubs.
some examples:
hundreds of examples
it all comes down to a matter of taste
Posted by Leniu on Nov-29-2009 22:27:
^^ Call me crazy, but those tracks are neither clubby nor epic. Especially the last one, fails on both accounts to me...
Posted by Clovis on Nov-29-2009 22:34:
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
gotta disagree with you there.
there is plenty of good electronic 'epic' music for clubs.
some examples:
hundreds of examples
it all comes down to a matter of taste
The difference being, those tracks are great used by good DJs at certain points in a long night. Where epic trance is involved there is usually way too much of it played all night long. Also, epic can be defined several ways. I have a lot of music I would consider pretty "epic" that is far from the music that inspired this thread.
Posted by MrJiveBoJingles on Nov-29-2009 22:41:
It does seem really rare to hear epic trance from anybody other than DJs who play it all the time.
Posted by PETRAN on Nov-29-2009 22:49:
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
That's unfortunately what modern deep house has become, but it used to be really uplifting and soulful. very far from the stolid muzak that passes for deep house these days. I think it suffers from the same sceney malaise that trendimal house suffers from, and the people making modern 'deep house' (sascha dive, and all these others) are the same people who were on the minimal house bandwagon.
Those were some sweet tracks nef! That Braxton Holmes track has a sweeet moving bassline. Thanks, deep house is one of the few things i stil enjoy from EDM (i used it as a example in my previous post) this is what im talking, its like that kinda "blue-note" feel that those tracks have is "forced" artificially into modern productions because "deep house" "should" sound like that, not because i "feel something and i make deep house to express it". This is a problem with the vast majority of modern EDM, the real question is whether those modern productions are "poor", "by-numbers" and "plastic" or whether its me getting bored of the sound. Maybe-and probably is-both. But those tracks that you posted sounded very raw, soulful and organic, the way good house music should be. I have to say that the "classic italian deep house" set that you once posted is occasionally on my i-pod. Its really good!
Posted by nefardec on Nov-30-2009 07:31:
quote:
Originally posted by Leniu
^^ Call me crazy, but those tracks are neither clubby nor epic. Especially the last one, fails on both accounts to me...
im calling you crazy
all of these have leveled dancefloors for years
Posted by nefardec on Nov-30-2009 07:36:
quote:
Originally posted by PETRAN
Those were some sweet tracks nef! That Braxton Holmes track has a sweeet moving bassline. Thanks, deep house is one of the few things i stil enjoy from EDM (i used it as a example in my previous post) this is what im talking, its like that kinda "blue-note" feel that those tracks have is "forced" artificially into modern productions because "deep house" "should" sound like that, not because i "feel something and i make deep house to express it". This is a problem with the vast majority of modern EDM, the real question is whether those modern productions are "poor", "by-numbers" and "plastic" or whether its me getting bored of the sound. Maybe-and probably is-both. But those tracks that you posted sounded very raw, soulful and organic, the way good house music should be. I have to say that the "classic italian deep house" set that you once posted is occasionally on my i-pod. Its really good!
yeah definitely agree on the by-numbers comment - i think that the method of production makes it very easy to copy the sounds that one is seduced by. the modern stuff is a simulacrum of a simulacrum - there is something lost in the translation. it's like if someone were translating an italian poem into english, and decided to focus on keeping the same number of syllables or alliteration at the cost of the meaning.
i almost posted one of the tracks from that italian set, 'ore: nove nove' by gio canepa (aka mbg). that is some FUN deep house.
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