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-- Who are the highest grossing edm edm dj's/producers
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Originally posted by drEamer that is true.....just cuz u think its bad, doesnt mean the entire world thinks it is....truth is, someone somewhere will like it......your musical taste isnt the end all be all u want it to be.....it starts and ends with what u like

i'm flattered you hold my opinion in such high regard, but the only one talking about what i say being the end all be all is yourself. really all i'm saying is commercial music is not art, it's cheap garbage. the argument that it is good because it makes money is a joke to me. like someone trying to convince me that mcdonalds makes a good hamburger because it sells. since you wanted to know, i defined for you what i consider to be good. i never said my taste in music defines what is good, that was something a lot of people took the pleasure of inferring from my posts. i was more than obliged to let them run with it. do you understand the distinction? i'm well aware that other opinions exist, and that a ton of people love cheesy, commercial music, but that doesn't change what it is. i'm not afraid of having a controversial opinion, what i'm really after is a guetta fan willing to come out and explain what is good about his music. i'm here to be entertained after all. tommy...

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Originally posted by Sadface Might that have to do with the fact that you and the rest of the underground scene keep switching up artists/genres so fast? MNML was the "it" genre not too long ago and now look what's happened. It wasn't inherently more creative than trance, it was just a different take on a 4/4 beat that everyone got bored of eventually. You just can't listen to EDM as much as we do without switching things up because every style gets stale after a while. The average weekend listener doesn't have this problem. Out of curiosity, how many producers/dj's are you still listening to that you loved 5 years ago? 3 years?

every sound has its era, the time when it was explosive, new and riveting. you can always go back to that era and appreciate it. that's different from putting up with the vestigial remnants being regurgitated 10 years after the fact. creative music is inherently dynamic. if you come up with the next big sound, eventually it will be mimicked and repackaged so many times that it is no longer worth listening to. there's usually a few good years in there before it becomes completely bastardized. i was never much of a fan of mnml or electro, those two hit their potential almost immediately imo. nevertheless when it first arrived on the scene, i could give it more credit than i could something that's been rehashed for years.

for those of you who lean on monetary success as a measure of artistic merit, consider this... population growth is geometric. the average life expectancy around the world is 66 years, but half the population is under 25. that means one thing, there will always be more teenage girls listening to radio music than anyone else listening to anything else. catering to these teenage girls can make you a lot of money as anyone who has music on the radio knows, but that success doesn't reflect in any way on its quality or artistic value.

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Originally posted by R!CH every sound has its era, the time when it was explosive, new and riveting. you can always go back to that era and appreciate it. that's different from putting up with the vestigial remnants being regurgitated 10 years after the fact. creative music is inherently dynamic. if you come up with the next big sound, eventually it will be mimicked and repackaged so many times that it is no longer worth listening to. there's usually a few good years in there before it becomes completely bastardized. i was never much of a fan of mnml or electro, those two hit their potential almost immediately imo. nevertheless when it first arrived on the scene, i could give it more credit than i could something that's been rehashed for years. for those of you who lean on monetary success as a measure of artistic merit, consider this... population growth is geometric. the average life expectancy around the world is 66 years, but half the population is under 25. that means one thing, there will always be more teenage girls listening to radio music than anyone else listening to anything else. catering to these teenage girls can make you a lot of money as anyone who has music on the radio knows, but that success doesn't reflect in any way on its quality or artistic value.

R!ich - the one thing you seem to be ignoring here is that the consumer of said cheesy music does seem to be enjoying their purchase of it or time listening to it in the clubs/radio/online, correct? my hope and belief is that those people who are being exposed to dance beats via the BEP/Guetta/hip hop people/etc., are the ones who will progress into fans of Sasha or the Droog guys or Sven Vath. Personally I can enjoy a Morillo set as much as a Luciano set... give the youngsters a chance to develop their dance palate when i first drank a beer i didn't care the brand...i was just happy to be drinking it lol... now i'm much more discerning. i suspect a few of the people you pigeonhole in your post will grow in their knowledge and appreciation of edm... granted many will not. i many times give the analogy of a cheesy dance set like this... if you just had a great slice of pizza at 4am after clubbing all nite, it probably damn well hit the spot at tha moment.... but a week later you probably won't remember it.... doesn't mean you shouldn't enjoy that slice again in the future and it doesn't mean you're automatically showing a lack of a discerning taste... I eat at McDonalds and STK... both are beef products but one costs $5 and one $75 per person... but still are cut from the same cow

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Originally posted by Cool1g I eat at McDonalds and STK... both are beef products but one costs $5 and one $75 per person... but still are cut from the same cow

No. They aren't.

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Originally posted by couch-potato No. They aren't.

lol... looking at your signature that's funny you said something. anyway that's not my point to rile up the McD/STK debate here on TA!

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Originally posted by couch-potato No. They aren't.

Think again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food,_Inc.

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Originally posted by Cool1g I eat at McDonalds

Hard for me to eat McDonalds more than once every other month after watching this...

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Originally posted by Cool1g give the youngsters a chance to develop their dance palate

no i totally get this, but there aren't many youngsters on ta reading along. if there are i don't know who they are cause they aren't posting here. i'm saying this for those who've been around a while and still don't get it. the people shouting "guetta is the shit! he makes bank! he's the top house dj on dj mag! he even has his own shoe! he makes more money that your favorite dj and that makes him better! bla bla bla...", these people aren't youngsters and they aren't new to this, but they have a lot of learning to do. namely that following the most popular dj in the world doesn't mean you're listening to good music. it doesn't. it's a bunk argument. i'm putting this out there to encourage them to rethink this rationale and maybe broaden their horizons. also i really, really miss tommy

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Originally posted by R!CH i'm flattered you hold my opinion in such high regard, but the only one talking about what i say being the end all be all is yourself. really all i'm saying is commercial music is not art, it's cheap garbage. the argument that it is good because it makes money is a joke to me. like someone trying to convince me that mcdonalds makes a good hamburger because it sells. since you wanted to know, i defined for you what i consider to be good. i never said my taste in music defines what is good, that was something a lot of people took the pleasure of inferring from my posts. i was more than obliged to let them run with it. do you understand the distinction? i'm well aware that other opinions exist, and that a ton of people love cheesy, commercial music, but that doesn't change what it is. i'm not afraid of having a controversial opinion, what i'm really after is a guetta fan willing to come out and explain what is good about his music. i'm here to be entertained after all. tommy...

and what im saying is, who are u to judge? what are your qualifications? are u GOD?

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Originally posted by drEamer and what im saying is, who are u to judge? what are your qualifications? are u GOD?

A forum is a place for voices and judgery. Maybe people come here to judge and be judged, maybe because they've been judged by people?

Maybe...maybe I need to get back to this sublime sound for the middles of the brain.




ps: its a free market system. Its imagineable that DJs get paid according to their worth towards the venue on a given night.

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Originally posted by drEamer and what im saying is, who are u to judge? what are your qualifications? are u GOD?

god??? yes, i am god. i heard your prayer last night, that's some sick shit man... anyway, even if i wasn't god, my qualification for having an opinion is having a brain. can you prove to me that you have one or are you going to just sit there and kumbaya some more? everyone crying "you don't have the right to say that!" is full of shit. i have the right to say whatever i think, you have the right to say whatever you think. if you want to take my words to be some higher authority then be my guest. if you feel what i say disagrees with what you think, try forming a reasoning behind why i am wrong. stop whining about "who made you the boss?" obviously you did if that's what you're thinking.

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Originally posted by drEamer are u GOD?

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Originally posted by diskodave

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Originally posted by R!CH god??? yes, i am god. i heard your prayer last night, that's some sick shit man... anyway, even if i wasn't god, my qualification for having an opinion is having a brain. can you prove to me that you have one or are you going to just sit there and kumbaya some more? everyone crying "you don't have the right to say that!" is full of shit. i have the right to say whatever i think, you have the right to say whatever you think. if you want to take my words to be some higher authority then be my guest. if you feel what i say disagrees with what you think, try forming a reasoning behind why i am wrong. stop whining about "who made you the boss?" obviously you did if that's what you're thinking.

u can say what u want, but just because u dont like something, doesnt make it bad per se

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Originally posted by R!CH god??? yes, i am god. i heard your prayer last night, that's some sick shit man...even if i wasn't god, my qualification for having an opinion is having a brain. can you prove to me that you have one or are you going to just sit there and kumbaya some more? everyone crying "you don't have the right to say that!" is full of shit. i have the right to say whatever i think, you have the right to say whatever you think. if you want to take my words to be some higher authority then be my guest. if you feel what i say disagrees with what you think, try forming a reasoning behind why i am wrong. stop whining about "who made you the boss?" obviously you did if that's what you're thinking.

I edited out the word "anyway", that took some bite out...

Send this to a Hollywood writer, have them put it in a movie. Maybe a Pacino monologue for a Devil's Advocate sequel.

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Originally posted by drEamer u can say what u want, but just because u dont like something, doesnt make it bad per se

i don't believe i've used the word bad once here. i did refer to commercial music as cheap, cheesy, formulaic, mediocre, generic, conventional, pedestrian, unoriginal and uncreative though. if you disagree, please by all means debate the issue here. i just ask that you stop confusing what's being said. what you keep missing again and again is the main theme of my every post in this thread: that money/djmag is not a valid argument for the comparative quality of music.

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Originally posted by drEamer u can say what u want, but just because u dont like something, doesnt make it bad per se

and the broken record keeps on spinnin'

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Originally posted by R!CH i don't believe i've used the word bad once here. i did refer to commercial music as cheap, cheesy, formulaic, mediocre, generic, conventional, pedestrian, unoriginal and uncreative though. if you disagree, please by all means debate the issue here. i just ask that you stop confusing what's being said. what you keep missing again and again is the main theme of my every post in this thread: that money/djmag is not a valid argument for the comparative quality of music.

im not arguing that money/djmag equals that, im just stating its subjective.....what one person likes, one might hate, doesnt make it good or bad

i didn't say you were arguing that, but this conversation started way before you chimed in. i'm not talking about preference here either. if you'll notice i deliberately sidestepped people's preference because it's painfully obvious that exists. nevertheless, there are commercial djs and they play/make cheap, generic music. i've already pointed out there are people who like that. it doesn't change the fact that it's cheap and generic. i feel like i've said this before... now i feel like i'm arguing semantics and this has gotten very old. where's tommy ffs...

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Originally posted by R!CH where's tommy ffs...

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Originally posted by R!CH i don't believe i've used the word bad once here. i did refer to commercial music as cheap, cheesy, formulaic, mediocre, generic, conventional, pedestrian, unoriginal and uncreative though. if you disagree, please by all means debate the issue here. i just ask that you stop confusing what's being said. what you keep missing again and again is the main theme of my every post in this thread: that money/djmag is not a valid argument for the comparative quality of music.

Theres no such thing as a truly valid argument for the comparitive quality of music because it ultimately comes down to the listener's personal tastes. Just because many listeners prefer shallower music doesn't make their appreciation of a track less valid. If someone likes a song, then it's "good" to them. That's all it comes down to.

It's pointless to try to rank the "best" musicians because of the subjective nature of music, but if you were forced to do it impartially how would you do it other than ask everyone for their favorite and see who came out on top?

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Originally posted by Sadface Just because many listeners prefer shallower music doesn't make their appreciation of a track less valid.

Yes it does.

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Originally posted by Sadface Theres no such thing as a truly valid argument for the comparitive quality of music because it ultimately comes down to the listener's personal tastes. Just because many listeners prefer shallower music doesn't make their appreciation of a track less valid. If someone likes a song, then it's "good" to them. That's all it comes down to. It's pointless to try to rank the "best" musicians because of the subjective nature of music, but if you were forced to do it impartially how would you do it other than ask everyone for their favorite and see who came out on top?

as a matter of fact there is a very valid argument for the comparative quality of something original over its commercialized vestige. i think it's so self evident that it doesn't even need to be explained. but let me ask you this: which version of the mona lisa has the greater comparative quality? the original painting or a stylized photograph of it? both are technically forms of art, but one was created before the idea of it was known to the world and the other is merely piggybacking off its established appeal.

casual listeners who only ever scrape the commercial surface of music do indeed have less valid appreciation than those who dig deeper because those who dig deeper are able to contextualize that appreciation to a far greater degree. appreciation for more nuanced music is a skill one develops only if they are driven by a passion for the music. people who flip through radio stations for music lack a certain quality that those who flip through record store bins do.

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Originally posted by R!CH as a matter of fact there is a very valid argument for the comparative quality of something original over its commercialized vestige. i think it's so self evident that it doesn't even need to be explained. but let me ask you this: which version of the mona lisa has the greater comparative quality? the original painting or a stylized photograph of it? both are technically forms of art, but one was created before the idea of it was known to the world and the other is merely piggybacking off its established appeal. casual listeners who only ever scrape the commercial surface of music do indeed have less valid appreciation than those who dig deeper because those who dig deeper are able to contextualize that appreciation to a far greater degree. appreciation for more nuanced music is a skill one develops only if they are driven by a passion for the music. people who flip through radio stations for music lack a certain quality that those who flip through record store bins do.

I've already said my piece regarding the level of creativity in dance music. Ultimately it doesn't matter. The need to appreciate novelty is something you have which others might not. The fact that you apparently have to put in effort to be able to enjoy your music doesn't make it inherently better. It's still just music, and I doubt that you feel much different when dancing your ass off to Guy Gerber than my friends do dancing to Deadmau5.

Is a car with a manual transmission inherently better than an automatic? Your average car enthusiast will probably go with the manual, but i'm not a car enthusiast and I'd rather be lazy and not have to shift. Does that mean the appreciation I have for my car can just be discounted because I'm not able to properly "contextualize" my driving experience?

Rich have you watched any movies lately?

Those movies in which 100 commercials are drilled through everyones head at every corner they turn. For example, Avatar, there are very few people who dont know about it or might see it, or if not Avatar some other recent hollywood film many have seen. Do you have the same views about commercial movies as you do about commercial music. Would you avoid watching a popular movie the same way you would avoid listening to a popular piece of music?
If you dig deep for music, do you apply this anti commercial view to other parts of culture? If not, why dont you?

Dont take this as an assumption, but I find it ironic how people are so staunchly "underground" when it comes to music, yet they watch the most commercial films with the biggest multi faceted marketing out there. No one really talks about the irony of watching a commercial movie in which 100 commercials are blasted at you, but when it comes to music, its some sort of sin to listen to something commercial, but its no sin to watch the latest "must see" movie. The ideals some follow is quite a paradox.

My theory is that people are conditioned by their surroundings and culture they follow. We end up supressing our own senses and those within distance to feel safer about our own ideals. Maybe we are helping eachother find a better way, but at the same time, maybe we are just helping eachother find the same mirage we found. I'm still learning/realising these things but I guess the point is to keep it real with yourself if you want to enjoy more of this life. Like what you want, dont worry if someone is not into what you are into, unless its doing harm to them, let people freely enjoy what they enjoy.

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