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quote:

Originally posted by VDub I'd say calling 2000 the nosedive is off by a few years Jay... In my opinion, the end of 2004 was the turning point...

In 2000 Sandra Poop-and-tell-all tried to bring forth the rave bill. (it didnt pass thank god). Also at the same time el jefe Fantino changed the attitude of the cops towards raves and clubs and set them on the path that they follow today. (namely belligerence and obtuseness) Hence why Idance happened in 2000. You could even argue that oct 1999 was the turning point when that kid died at hullabaloo and started the big hullabaloo amongst politicians. The banning of parties at municipal buildings in 2000 was a huge downfall as well. Remember Better Living Centre and Science Centre parties anyone? The "rave protocal" made it prohibitively expensive to throw a party as it was designed to do. 1 pay duty cop per 50 people? Yeah right!!

It didnt help matters at all when Toronto elected Miller and then Vaughan who along with their leftie bretheren, enacted even more bylaws and crackdowns on the scene. Lets not even go there with the smoking law in 04.

As i said, its mostly the politicians to blame in toronto for the downfall of the scene. Whats left are the crumbles that people try to string together to make something happen.

There isn't any "scene" to save though.

Every generation has their own era and brand/style of partying.

The era of clubbing and raving I was a part of owed a lot to growing up @ a time that saw the rebirth of the 60s & 70s ideals, lots of musical movements either in their infancy, being rediscovered, or evolving & attaining popularity.

The current era still has those elements, but it's the domain of those that grew up on Brittany and American Idol now.

Things didn't "have" to go mainstream in order to ensure the scene persevered, but it did so because that's what happens to generational movements.

They get absorbed into the pop culture consciousness and the next generation takes what they like and mashes them up with the rest.

Look @ punk, funk, folk, or any music you see advertised @ 3am in a boxset during an infomercial.

quote:

Originally posted by crazedcanuck There isn't any "scene" to save though. Every generation has their own era and brand/style of partying. The era of clubbing and raving I was a part of owed a lot to growing up @ a time that saw the rebirth of the 60s & 70s ideals, lots of musical movements either in their infancy, being rediscovered, or evolving & attaining popularity. The current era still has those elements, but it's the domain of those that grew up on Brittany and American Idol now. Things didn't "have" to go mainstream in order to ensure the scene persevered, but it did so because that's what happens to generational movements. They get absorbed into the pop culture consciousness and the next generation takes what they like and mashes them up with the rest. Look @ punk, funk, folk, or any music you see advertised @ 3am in a boxset during an infomercial.

like i said before... it is the club scene evolving.

quote:

Originally posted by chinamon evolving.

Evolution implies positive growth, and this very debate shows that not everyone thinks the changes in the scene are positive/for the better/improved from the past.

quote:

Originally posted by chinamon like i said before... it is the club scene evolving.

More like devolving thanks to a dilution of the previous scene thanks to it's popularity.

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Evolution implies positive growth, and this very debate shows that not everyone thinks the changes in the scene are positive/for the better/improved from the past.

who are we to judge that it this is not positive though?

quote:

Originally posted by chinamon who are we to judge that it this is not positive though?

I'm lamenting that the mainstream has absorbed and smothered what used to be a vibrant & colourful minority.

No doubt people enjoy things in there current form, going out is about fun after all, and clubbing has always been around.

quote:

Originally posted by Swamper It's not just Techno. There are genre-whore/elitists for House/Trance/etc (and those have always been around). That said, one of the things I miss from the 'days of old' is when everyone was at a party and enjoyed the variety of music being played (rather than bitch about how similar the DJ's set is to the liveset they downloaded a few hours before). As with anything, scarcity makes it that much more enjoyable -- we're just spoiled with abundance and an ever increasing amount of distractions ('hey look at me I'm in a booth and I got a bottle'/'omg look at me pose for my 500th facebook profile photo').

Yeah mang.

The Hullaballoo stabbing was in 2000...

I started in Jan 2000
and I found out about it the next day at Zone so Oct 2000 it was...

quote:

Originally posted by The Highroller I try to avoid taking part in the "back in the day" discourse, but it is true that these days the retard contingent is definitely a lot larger and maybe even comprises a majority of the scene today. There are just way too many noobs that think because they downloaded the newest #1 tech-house track on Beatport, and because they follow DJs around like lost puppies, that they are part of a privileged haute-soci�t�, whose mandate it is to take every opportunity to show everyone how "connected" and "in-the-know" they are. There is a marked culture of vanity that exists in the scene today that did not exist before. Although the bottle service trend is not completely to blame, I definitely see a connection to the general one-upping and dick-sizing that plagues the scene today. Personally, I just avoid these people and spend my time with those who don't participate in this backwards way of thinking, and who like to have a good time, instead of standing around watching to see if everyone notices how cool they are.

Well said G
lol @ one-upping and dick-sizing

quote:

Originally posted by chinamon sometimes it is. if you havent noticed, our oldschool crowd was diminishing quick because people were getting older and starting families. there was not enough new blood to fill those shoes. big parties were getting small and small parties were getting even smaller. going mainstream was pretty much the only option we had to save it.

Happens everywhere, most good things come to an end in any scene and people move on. R.I.P the glory days

Its kind of egoistical to believe that a scene died after you had left it.

Life goes on and it evolves, tastes change.

quote:

Originally posted by malek Its kind of egoistical to believe that a scene died after you had left it. Life goes on and it evolves, tastes change.

Actually it died about 2 yrs prior, and nowhere did I point to myself as cause or saviour.

The whole thread has been about that evolution & the change so this isn't news to anyone.

Thanks for pointing out things change on page 8, it's a nice reminder for the slow kids.

quote:

Originally posted by malek Its kind of egoistical to believe that a scene died after you had left it. Life goes on and it evolves, tastes change.

this is TOTA afterall....

quote:

Originally posted by malek

I know you're experienced in the scene and been involved for quite some time. I don't put our different takes on this down to a lack of dance floor hours logged.

quote:

Originally posted by The Highroller It also has to be taken into consideration that what you experience when you're young, when everything is fresh, new and exciting will automatically skew your opinion into thinking that things were better back then.

Very true. However, a subjective change of perspective doesn't mean there hasn't been an objective change as well.

quote:

Originally posted by PivotTechno Actually, keeping a youthful mindset can help carry that on well into one's later years.

Absolutely

quote:

Originally posted by VDub In my opinion, the end of 2004 was the turning point...

That's pretty much where I put it too.

quote:

Originally posted by TranceGrooves Lets face it, we can't change what people wear to clubs and how many kilos of gel they put in their hair but lets contribute what we can and should do to help keep the "vibe alive".

I like your attitude.

quote:

Originally posted by crazedcanuck The era of clubbing and raving I was a part of owed a lot to growing up @ a time that saw the rebirth of the 60s & 70s ideals, lots of musical movements either in their infancy, being rediscovered, or evolving & attaining popularity.

My take exactly. Hope to bump into you on a dance floor someday.

quote:

Originally posted by chinamon this is TOTA afterall....

Yeah, because sentimental discussion of a culture you were a part of equates taking credit for it's success and failures.

Save that for the promoters and DJs of the era when they start stroking their own ego.

I'm looking @ you Bert Sugarman & Peter Fonda.

quote:

Originally posted by crazedcanuck There isn't any "scene" to save though. Every generation has their own era and brand/style of partying. The era of clubbing and raving I was a part of owed a lot to growing up @ a time that saw the rebirth of the 60s & 70s ideals, lots of musical movements either in their infancy, being rediscovered, or evolving & attaining popularity. The current era still has those elements, but it's the domain of those that grew up on Brittany and American Idol now. Things didn't "have" to go mainstream in order to ensure the scene persevered, but it did so because that's what happens to generational movements. They get absorbed into the pop culture consciousness and the next generation takes what they like and mashes them up with the rest. Look @ punk, funk, folk, or any music you see advertised @ 3am in a boxset during an infomercial.

Sometimes, for some things, reality depresses me......

quote:

Originally posted by malek Its kind of egoistical to believe that a scene died after you had left it.

Who left what in the who, now?

quote:

Originally posted by WittyHandle I know you're experienced in the scene and been involved for quite some time. I don't put our different takes on this down to a lack of dance floor hours logged. Very true. However, a subjective change of perspective doesn't mean there hasn't been an objective change as well. Absolutely That's pretty much where I put it too. I like your attitude. My take exactly. Hope to bump into you on a dance floor someday.

So true. I'd gauge the end of 2004 as well.

The biggest difference I have found is that I am now less likely to meet randoms and party with them. When I first starting parties, I would go by myself most of the time, and just meet people. But slowly, that changed.

I don't know if my personality changed, but I would still like to go and just party with complete strangers, without feeling like a stranger.

The party at Vola for Ronksi and Stoneface felt great, because you could see/feel that congruent vibe.

But, in all these years, I have met and befriended a lot of great people, and thankfully when I go out, I am bound to run into them, and just party with them now.

quote:

Originally posted by VDub As recently as 3 weeks ago, I was at Stereo and thought how much it felt like the old Guv days...

I will agree that it is pretty sad/lame that Toronto can't support something like Stereo.

I am supremely jealous of Montrealers on that aspect!

For the record, I blame everything wrong with the current scene on Jeff Button.

quote:

Originally posted by crazedcanuck For the record, I blame everything wrong with the current scene on Jeff Button.

Why would you blame him??

You'd have to be a leader to deserve any blame in changing something...

He's just a follower...

quote:

Originally posted by chinamon who are we to judge that it this is not positive though?

Are you kidding? By that same token, who are we to judge that it is? Furthermore, as patrons/consumers/participants - whatever you want to call it - of the scene, we have every right to judge it.

quote:

Originally posted by VDub Why would you blame him?? You'd have to be a leader to deserve any blame in changing something... He's just a follower...

I'm just teasing Jeff, as I saw he's playing events now.

I blame Del...

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