TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Chill Out Room
-- Obama healthcare passes
Pages (7): « 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 »

quote:

Originally posted by osterzone

The IRS jobs are part of the bill because if we are going to enforce a new set of taxes or fines, we are also going to need more enforcers.

quote:

Originally posted by osterzone $10 billion in the bill is going to hire 16,500 new IRS agents to make sure people are paying for healthcare, or else they will be fined. So not only is the size of government increasing, but we're going to waste $10 billion in taxpayer money to make sure that people are paying for something that they should have a right to choose in in the first place. Clovis here are some additional rules on how to answer this post: 1) Refer to the fact above 2) Do not hit 'submit' if your response doesn't do just that.

You're an idiot if you think most Americans have a choice in healthcare. I can't choose not to have health insurance because to choose otherwise is a HUGE gamble that makes no economic sense. I can't choose which insurance plan to take because the company plan is always cheaper than individual plans. I can't choose when my premiums rise, at the insurance company's discretion, because my fellow Americans are fat and unhealthy. I can't choose not to absorb the cost of the uninsured. We are already implicitly in this together. You're just too dumb to realize that the choice has already been chosen for you.

Furthermore, the IRS isn't your problem rather it's your cheats. If our fellow Americans were more honest, we wouldn't need more enforcers.

Yes, it's Michael Moore, but it's pretty spot-on...

quote:

March 22nd, 2010 3:38 AM The Great Thing About the Health Care Law That Has Passed? It Will Save Republican Lives, Too (An Open Letter to Republicans from Michael Moore) To My Fellow Citizens, the Republicans: Thanks to last night's vote, that child of yours who has had asthma since birth will now be covered after suffering for her first nine years as an American child with a pre-existing condition. Thanks to last night's vote, that 23-year-old of yours who will be hit one day by a drunk driver and spend six months recovering in the hospital will now not go bankrupt because you will be able to keep him on your insurance policy. Thanks to last night's vote, after your cancer returns for the third time -- racking up another $200,000 in costs to keep you alive -- your insurance company will have to commit a criminal act if they even think of dropping you from their rolls. Yes, my Republican friends, even though you have opposed this health care bill, we've made sure it is going to cover you, too, in your time of need. I know you're upset right now. I know you probably think that if you did get wiped out by an illness, or thrown out of your home because of a medical bankruptcy, that you would somehow pull yourself up by your bootstraps and survive. I know that's a comforting story to tell yourself, and if John Wayne were still alive I'm sure he could make that into a movie for you. But the reality is that these health insurance companies have only one mission: To take as much money from you as they can -- and then work like demons to deny you whatever coverage and help they can should you get sick. So, when you find yourself suddenly broadsided by a life-threatening illness someday, perhaps you'll thank those pinko-socialist, Canadian-loving Democrats and independents for what they did Sunday evening. If it's any consolation, the thieves who run the health insurance companies will still get to deny coverage to adults with pre-existing conditions for the next four years. They'll also get to cap an individual's annual health care reimbursements for the next four years. And if they break the pre-existing ban that was passed last night, they'll only be fined $100 a day! And, the best part? The law will require all citizens who aren't poor or old to write a check to a private insurance company. It's truly a banner day for these corporations. So don't feel too bad. We're a long way from universal health care. Over 15 million Americans will still be uncovered -- and that means about 15,000 will still lose their lives each year because they won't be able to afford to see a doctor or get an operation. But another 30,000 will live. I hope that's ok with you. If you don't mind, we're now going to get busy trying to improve upon this bill so that all Americans are covered and so the grubby health insurance companies will be put out of business -- because when it comes to helping the sick, no one should ever be allowed to ask the question, "How much money can we save by making this poor bastard suffer?" Please, my Republican friends, if you can, take a quiet moment away from your AM radio and cable news network this morning and be happy for your country. We're doing better. And we're doing it for you, too. Yours, Michael Moore

quote:

Originally posted by osterzone Lolololol You try to make the point that any job is a good job, even an IRS agent. Well first off, do you even know who those are? Or are you just another foreign liberal with nothing better to do than bash America? You also make the point as if these people don't get hired, they will starve. Can you point to me where it says that the 16,500 people who will be hired to these positions are the only working members of their families, and will die if they don't get it? My post had facts in it. Your post was an attack with nothing but assumptions.

I think it's so awesome that every time you post something about a new subject you add that subject to the ever growing list of things you are an absolute idiot about. And the fact that you are so sure that you are right about everything makes you the worst kind of idiot there is.

quote:

Originally posted by Scottaculous Furthermore, the IRS isn't your problem rather it's your cheats. If our fellow Americans were more honest, we wouldn't need more enforcers.

Well, if people were more honest, then even more of them would be uninsured, since they would have to disclose that they are too high of a risk for it to make financial sense to insure them at a premium they could afford. So really, honesty on its own is a solution only for the young and healthy.

quote:

Originally posted by woscar I think it's so awesome that every time you post something about a new subject you add that subject to the ever growing list of things you are an absolute idiot about. And the fact that you are so sure that you are right about everything makes you the worst kind of idiot there is.

Whatever, I'm done in this thread.

I mean look at this post you just made...the only thing you were out to accomplish was to attempt a pathetically-weak cheapshot. It has nothing to do with the subject at hand. And you think I'm the idiot...talking to you is like talking to a wall.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Well, if people were more honest, then even more of them would be uninsured, since they would have to disclose that they are too high of a risk for it to make financial sense to insure them at a premium they could afford. So really, honesty on its own is a solution only for the young and healthy.

If I was callous and looked only at my bottom line, I would not have an issue with this. I'm healthy as an ox and never made a medical claim besides annual check ups. Maybe I could get some tips from my friends across the aisle on how I should be more pissed off because I'm paying for their lifestyle.

quote:

Originally posted by Scottaculous If I was callous and looked only at my bottom line, I would not have an issue with this. I'm healthy as an ox and never made a medical claim besides annual check ups. Maybe I could get some tips from my friends across the aisle on how I should be more pissed off because I'm paying for their lifestyle.

Lifestyle often has nothing to do with why a person gets sick. People who diet and exercise impeccably can still break down and get cancer or dementia eventually. Sorry to bring you the sad news.

Did Rush promise that he would leave the country if the bill was passed, or do we have another hurdle to jump before he has to talk his way out of that too?

quote:

Originally posted by _Ocean_Drive_ Yes, it's Michael Moore, but it's pretty spot-on...

yep. It's a step in the right direction but it's still a shit bill.

quote:

Originally posted by Scottaculous If I was callous and looked only at my bottom line, I would not have an issue with this. I'm healthy as an ox and never made a medical claim besides annual check ups. Maybe I could get some tips from my friends across the aisle on how I should be more pissed off because I'm paying for their lifestyle.

This sort of tack in the argument is one of the many reasons we've got such a screwed up healthcare bill, in the first place. The implication that supporters of the bill are supporters because their lifestyle choices make them more predisposed to illness is false and therefore the whole of your argument is moot. Never mind that you're not taking into account thousands of people who have been rejected for pre-existing conditions who legitimately thought they were in fit, physical condition to begin with; your argument, an ad hominem reductio, is indicative of the sort of Republican talking points that have served to make a mockery of the political process by obscuring the foundation of knowledge concerning the subject to begin with and therefor attempts to ensure that no two people can actually have any substantive discussion about what's happening, at all.

For all of the false comparison to Hitler and Chairman Mao, Obama and the Democrats have endured in passing this bill, these sorts of arguments are nothing short of rudimentary (yet effective) propagandist thought-reform. They negate the worthwhile nature of any argument by pumping an exchange so filled with non-sense that to redirect the argument to rational dialogue takes two or more paragraphs to untangle so much unholy bullshit that the person who has uttered it would surely be writhing in hell for his or her dishonesty were they to plop dead.

Perhaps you actually thought your argument was legitimate and factual and even honest, when it's fairly clear it's not. It's ethically warped, is what it is, but I've seen and read so many people spouting off non-sense like it that it would have to be a part of your conscious thinking. It's become like breathing. If you can't honestly reconcile the fact that what you're saying is complete and utter bullshit and you're permission of it, by virtue of the submission button, has everything to do with your own willful ambition to scuttle a legitimate debate - THAT is thought reform.

Ergo you're either a willful liar who's seeking to obscure rational dialogue or a submissive cult-member completely lacking any self-awareness.

I think that The17sss confuses what the job of a representative is. They go and vote their personal choice. They were elected to make decisions based on their sole personal agenda because thats what their constituents believed was best for them. If thats no longer the case then they will get voted out in the next election and they will find someone else.

We do not live in a direct democracy, so sorry, the immediate will of the people does not and should not affect anything.

None of these representatives did anything wrong. You could easily turn around and spin the republican argument that they defied the will of the people by saying that republicans didn't vote for the bill when some of their constituents were for it. It doesn't matter. They can listen to their constituents, but they do not have to do vote the way they want them to. Thats not their jobs, their job is to vote their personal choice. Thats what they campaigned on, and thats what people expect them to do.

Letting people immediately have influence over the process of this country would be a bad thing. Most people in this country, on any side, are reactionary idiots with little to no education on political subjects, or even the ability to read or write coherently. Heck, most of them can barely form a coherent verbal sentence!

quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby Letting people immediately have influence over the process of this country would be a bad thing. Most people in this country, on any side, are reactionary idiots with little to no education on political subjects, or even the ability to read or write coherently. Heck, most of them can barely form a coherent verbal sentence!

Gosh, you're such a liberal elitist!

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker This sort of tack in the argument is one of the many reasons we've got such a screwed up healthcare bill, in the first place. The implication that supporters of the bill are supporters because their lifestyle choices make them more predisposed to illness is false and therefore the whole of your argument is moot. Never mind that you're not taking into account thousands of people who have been rejected for pre-existing conditions who legitimately thought they were in fit, physical condition to begin with; your argument, an ad hominem reductio, is indicative of the sort of Republican talking points that have served to make a mockery of the political process by obscuring the foundation of knowledge concerning the subject to begin with and therefor attempts to ensure that no two people can actually have any substantive discussion about what's happening, at all. For all of the false comparison to Hitler and Chairman Mao, Obama and the Democrats have endured in passing this bill, these sorts of arguments are nothing short of rudimentary (yet effective) propagandist thought-reform. They negate the worthwhile nature of any argument by pumping an exchange so filled with non-sense that to redirect the argument to rational dialogue takes two or more paragraphs to untangle so much unholy bullshit that the person who has uttered it would surely be writhing in hell for his or her dishonesty were they to plop dead. Perhaps you actually thought your argument was legitimate and factual and even honest, when it's fairly clear it's not. It's ethically warped, is what it is, but I've seen and read so many people spouting off non-sense like it that it would have to be a part of your conscious thinking. It's become like breathing. If you can't honestly reconcile the fact that what you're saying is complete and utter bullshit and you're permission of it, by virtue of the submission button, has everything to do with your own willful ambition to scuttle a legitimate debate - THAT is thought reform. Ergo you're either a willful liar who's seeking to obscure rational dialogue or a submissive cult-member completely lacking any self-awareness.

Relax man, we're on the same side.

quote:

Originally posted by jonSun yep. It's a step in the right direction but it's still a shit bill.

This is the crux of it. It is my hope there will be more honest dialog on how to further shape the bill in lowering costs, offering better coverage, simplifying the wording, etc..

quote:

Originally posted by Scottaculous Relax man, we're on the same side.

Very sorry. Monumentally shitty day and I shouldn't have posted what I did, directed at you.

Just FYI, ghezumtuefeulsuyeshzhzhchittybangbang has a friend that thinks the healthcare plan is set up so that in 2014 the government can unleash some secret supervirus on the unsuspecting masses.

quote:

Originally posted by bas Just FYI, ghezumtuefeulsuyeshzhzhchittybangbang has a friend that thinks the healthcare plan is set up so that in 2014 the government can unleash some secret supervirus on the unsuspecting masses.

Everyone in conspiracy theory circles knows that's a diversion the alphabet soup has conjured to make us believe that we've actually got a future past December 21, 2012...











When FEMA rounds us up everyone who won't get a 666 tattoo and a microchip implant required to buy and sell goods and services; and transports us on secret rail-way cars to internment camps.

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard This is why I am in full support of replacing democracies with meritocracies. To think that ********'s vote is of equal weight to mine or the17sss' is equal to OCC_Rider's makes me want to bash my head against a wall.

man i miss occ

quote:

Originally posted by osterzone Lol @ people like Clovis in this thread supporting the bill strictly because he's liberal/supports Obama. You can tell this because he's not mentioned a single provision in the current bill, and has decided just to bash the other party and say "yeah well, we needed change!!!11!1". So pothead, support this: $10 billion in the bill is going to hire 16,500 new IRS agents to make sure people are paying for healthcare, or else they will be fined. So not only is the size of government increasing, but we're going to waste $10 billion in taxpayer money to make sure that people are paying for something that they should have a right to choose in in the first place. Clovis here are some additional rules on how to answer this post: 1) Refer to the fact above 2) Do not hit 'submit' if your response doesn't do just that.

you suck donkey dick.

quote:

Originally posted by osterzone Lol @ people like Clovis in this thread supporting the bill strictly because he's liberal/supports Obama. You can tell this because he's not mentioned a single provision in the current bill, and has decided just to bash the other party and say "yeah well, we needed change!!!11!1". So pothead, support this: $10 billion in the bill is going to hire 16,500 new IRS agents to make sure people are paying for healthcare, or else they will be fined. So not only is the size of government increasing, but we're going to waste $10 billion in taxpayer money to make sure that people are paying for something that they should have a right to choose in in the first place. Clovis here are some additional rules on how to answer this post: 1) Refer to the fact above 2) Do not hit 'submit' if your response doesn't do just that.

Yeah, I don't have a problem with that, nobody else really has any reason to either.

If I drive a car in California I am required to have auto insurance. Not really much different than that.

If you want to argue the practical implications of that line item, we can do that to, although I don't really think it's in my interest to sit here and explain to you why, on the WHOLE, this bill is going to help far more people than it might inconvenience, and that there are few, if any, people in this country who DO NOT want some form of healthcare. Do you have health insurance?

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis this bill is going to help far more people than it might inconvenience, and that there are few, if any, people in this country who DO NOT want some form of healthcare. Do you have health insurance?

+1

You know who is going to get a ride out of office for sure? Washington States AG who is part of this 11 state lawsuit shit.

I agree that the feds shouldn't over reach into most everything, especially cost wise (see the federal ID standards), but this is something Washington should not being fighting against. The only reason we have a Republican AG is because the other guy was a know nothing little shit. Hell I voted for the Republican candidate.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss This time, the Dems are willing to blow up their political careers to pass this. Crazy IMO, but they've been dreaming of this for 100 years; they can relax now because short term losses don't matter. From here on out, it's just going to be a matter of which party that happens to be in power can better manage it.

I'm just curious, if the Democrats hold majorities in both houses in November, will you and your Republican friends actually admit that you're wrong and people did want this (or at least to move in this direction)? Using stats like 70% dislike this bill, is entirely dishonest, because you're not taking into consideration why people dislike the bill. There are tons of liberals in those numbers, because they feel this bill doesn't go far enough.

I mean, I really am about fed up with the whole debate, because it's obvious that neither side really knows what's in the bill. The whole debate as been full of lies on both sides. People on the right screaming "Socialism" or, as I read earlier "this is the step right before we people start being sent to the gulags in Alaska" as I read earlier, just show how little comprehension most people have about either a) what socialism is, or b) what's actually in the bill.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss ... because they're too dumb to understand it right now. Can't keep up with those intellectuals in Washington.

Yes...actually. It's not the politicians that are driving this country into the ground. It's their idiot constituents, and that has nothing to do with partisanship. They exist on both sides, but the Republicans who feel slighted by this legislation are taking the cake right now, as shown by all the wall comments for this FB Group - http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/group.php?v=wall&ref=nf&gid=370668318969

quote:

Originally posted by Groundhog Boy I mean, I really am about fed up with the whole debate, because it's obvious that neither side really knows what's in the bill. The whole debate as been full of lies on both sides. People on the right screaming "Socialism" or, as I read earlier "this is the step right before we people start being sent to the gulags in Alaska" as I read earlier, just show how little comprehension most people have about either a) what socialism is, or b) what's actually in the bill.

No, those lines do not come from stupidity but from blind allegiance to ones benefactors. The Republican party is a good old boys club whos entire structure is very unified (unlike the Democrats). Their decisions come from the top down and their represenatives and constituents all follow the same line. The line they present is what is so great about their platform. It is all about fear, uncertainty, and doubt. They use FUD to wash over the real reasons why things like this will not work out for those that support the party. You can not go to an old guy on a farm in Missouri and say "we do not want to give everyone healthcare because big insurance companies do not want to cover the cost of those already sick" because that just would not fly. Saying something more scary, like "The government is going to take over who you can see and not see about your health" which is totally out of this world false makes the old guy tremble.

So, its not stupidity, but an undying trust in the officials that represent them. The lack of unity inside the Democratic party is not one of weakness (as it appears) but one of actual opinion and care for those who they represent. Look at Stupak, this is a Democrat who cared for his own convictions, he was elected on those convictions and he was willing to go against his entire party to the point where a bill that he over all supports would fail if it did not reflect the wishes he held. Try and see that in a republican. You wont. Even "mavericks" like John McCain are still shills for the entire RNC structure. They don't even have one lording overseer, they have an undying, in a lot of cases juedeo-christian, devotion to capitalism and the organs of it, which are the big businesses of this country.

So when you talk about facism and you are on the right, look at what facist bodies in the past have consisted of: Strong ties between government and business.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.