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- Chill Out Room
-- Daniel Mackler - Essays For The Enlightenment Seeker
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quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Uh, ok. edit: I can't tell if you're being sarcastic.

no, im serious. just because you tired out the packers for the next decade and have ruined any potential for superbowl victory, doesn't mean you don't know a bit of shit. like stu (an utter waste of space), if i was interested in buying a massive anal dildo, i'd come to him for advice.

likewise, i would never ever hold your penchant for cock as an excuse to ignore your opinions on a field you have much more experience in than me (medicine, not cock, but also cock).

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN no, im serious. just because you tired out the packers for the next decade and have ruined any potential for superbowl victory, doesn't mean you don't know a bit of shit. like stu (an utter waste of space), if i was interested in buying a massive anal dildo, i'd come to him for advice. likewise, i would never ever hold your penchant for cock as an excuse to ignore your opinions on a field you have much more experience in than me (medicine, not cock, but also cock).

LOL.





I'd also like to add that Mate makes a very good case against the criminalization of drugs. It's really just incredible that the shit he says is so simply true and profoundly obvious - it's shameful to know that the majority of society shares the attitudes it does towards addiction and drugs.

Did you know that Portugal is the only country in the world where all drugs are completely decriminalized? Ever since the law changed they've actually seen a DECLINE in illicit drug use.

http://www.idpc.net/php-bin/documen...tion_EN.pdf.pdf

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Did you know that Portugal is the only country in the world where all drugs are completely decriminalized?

actually i did, but being the stoner i am i'd completely forgotten i started the thread!

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...hlight=portugal

Bahahahaha!


edit: GODDAMN Q5echo is a fucking MORON. *rage rage rage*

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Bahahahaha! edit: GODDAMN Q5echo is a fucking MORON. *rage rage rage*

seriously- when you posted that i thought "gee, i remember there being a PDD thread on that" and i was genuinely surprised when i saw my name as the thread creator

i miss Q5. not so great in that thread, but one of the few articulate and convincing conservatives on TA half-caste daughter too, she'll be well hot and should be old enough soon!

Lmao. Always thinking, eh pkc?

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Lmao. Always thinking, eh pkc?

dammit! i knew posting after a couple of bottles of red would be my un-doing! blame the woeful display of hawthorn this evening (australia's version of the packers )

fuck, must be time for bed. fuck you all! especially stu and fledz.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN especially stu and fledz.

lol +1

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie That isn't entirely wrong though...he just makes a very biased point without attended to WHY medication "doesn't help". I can sort of agree in the sense that medication ALONE doesn't help people. One cannot expect to heal psychiatric/mental illnesses without being aware of all the other socio-cultural-political-environmental factors that contribute to it.

Sure - but even then, medication is a great supplement to whatever other form of therapy you combine it with, and, aside from the fact that medical approaches to psychology tend to be stigmatized for arbitrary cultural reasons, it would be foolish to dismiss either method. Either way, it's a pretty big jump from your position of 'pathology has complex causes' (which, of course, I absolutely agree with), to new-agey horseshit like:

quote:

[...]sends your spirit the message that life�s answer do not come from within. This is an evil message, because it is untrue. People need to change their lives deeply, both inside and out, in order to heal.

... because, you know what lies deeply within people? Neurons.

quote:

I think, essentially, his message is quite true - that people need to attend to the root causes of their problems, which all kinds of research DOES link to childhood trauma.

Childhood trauma may be a cause in some cases of addiction, which, as you so eloquently put earlier, has very complex causation models - hence the naivete of attributing so much importance onto one single arbitrarily chosen cause. It's crap because it oversimplifies a complex problem that should be dealt with on multiple levels of explanation. That's ultimately what all pop psychology is guilty of, hence why it's all crap.

quote:

Originally posted by Cpt.Cocaine Sure - but even then, medication is a great supplement to whatever other form of therapy you combine it with, and, aside from the fact that medical approaches to psychology tend to be stigmatized for arbitrary cultural reasons, it would be foolish to dismiss either method. Either way, it's a pretty big jump from your position of 'pathology has complex causes'

I'm not sure how you misunderstood my post, as that's pretty much exactly what I was saying. I said people cannot rely on medication ALONE. I never said medication wasn't a legitimate and beneficial treatment. I have always supported the use of medication to help treat mental illnesses, and have always shown my distaste for the stigmatization of prescription drug users.

quote:

Originally posted by Cpt.Cocaine Childhood trauma may be a cause in some cases of addiction, which, as you so eloquently put earlier, has very complex causation models - hence the naivete of attributing so much importance onto one single arbitrarily chosen cause. It's crap because it oversimplifies a complex problem that should be dealt with on multiple levels of explanation. That's ultimately what all pop psychology is guilty of, hence why it's all crap.

I get that. Again, not sure why you think I was saying anything otherwise.

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie I get that. Again, not sure why you think I was saying anything otherwise.

I'm not sure why you think I was saying that you were saying otherwise. I'm just disagreeing with the OP, while agreeing with you, who was apparently agreeing with the OP which I was disagreeing with.

Lol, well fuck me. Just not getting it today. I blame being hungover.

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Except not everybody has the same access to choice and control. You really think a homeless guy can just get up and walk into the job bank and get work? What address is he supposed to fill out on the forms? How would he even know that these places exist? What if he's schizophrenic? You think people are going to treat him the same as everyone else? Why do you think he would turn to drugs an alcohol?

I still don't think it would be beneficial for an addict or a mentally ill person to be pointing fingers at other people. Especially an addict... placing the blame elsewhere would arguably give them reason to continue doing what they're doing.

The mentally ill are a special case. They don't necessarily have the capacities to take control over their own lives and get or accept the help that they need. This in my opinion, then becomes the responsibility of those related to the individual.

The homeless still have opportunities available to them. Assuming they are not mentally ill, they do have the capacities to seek help, and I would argue that most, if not all, homeless people are aware of at least some resources meant to help them (probably shelters or foodbanks), which can thus lead them to the other resources they need. Most shelters will allow to use their address for employment purposes, and many places offer free clothes, a place to get cleaned up etc.

Unfortunately however, it seems that a majority of homeless people are conflicted with addiction and mental illnesses, which complicates the entire situation further.

When it comes to addiction and mental illnesses, the solutions aren't so clear. Despite this, I don't think it is beneficial for anyone to be placing the blame for their situation on someone else. I personally don't think this is a healthy thing to do, but maybe I am wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Cpt.Cocaine

Agreed.

quote:

Originally posted by Cpt.Cocaine ... because, you know what lies deeply within people? Neurons.

And what lies within neurons?

For the most part, Theresa, you don't know what you're talking about. If you'd like more information about what it's like for the homeless and addicted...I have plenty of resources I can share that will help you understand.

quote:

Originally posted by PivotTechno And what lies within neurons?

Trauma?

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie For the most part, Theresa, you don't know what you're talking about. If you'd like more information about what it's like for the homeless and addicted...I have plenty of resources I can share that will help you understand.

What in particular are you taking issue with?

quote:

Originally posted by PivotTechno And what lies within neurons?

The entire combined worth of Mackler's teachings?

No, seriously, what lies within neurons?

Your misunderstanding of "personal choice" and "free will". You're dead wrong, and clearly do not understand how, as I said before, socio-environmental-political forces act upon these kind of people.

Assuming the homeless are not mentally ill? Over 70% of homeless people have a mental illness, for one. Do you think these people all have supportive families, networks of friends, MONEY, etc to even begin to know how or where to get help? It's really not as easy as you think. You think medication is free?

Do you have any idea what it's like in a shelter? Overcrowded, full of illness, BUGS, drug users, abuse. Did you know that tuberculosis is making a comeback specifically because of conditions in shelters?

Do you have any idea how depressing and humiliating it is for these people? They didn't just wake up one day and decide to join the pity party. Did you know that the number one reason that people end up homeless in Canada is due to lack of affordable housing? Is that a personal responsibility, when there aren't even jobs that pay someone enough to afford a place to live? Do you really think ANYone WANTS to live on the street??

If you really want to educate yourself, contact Cathy Crowe or do some research on the work she does. She's a street nurse who works with the homeless in Toronto.

But she's a psych major, reads lots of books and whatnot. That means that she knows things, because as you very well know, book knowledge = real life experience.

This math brought to you by whatever it is that lies within my neurons.

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Your misunderstanding of "personal choice" and "free will". You're dead wrong, and clearly do not understand how, as I said before, socio-environmental-political forces act upon these kind of people.

I think you are misunderstanding my point. I am not talking about personal choice or free will. I am talking about the way one perceives their own situation. It doesn't seem productive to me for a person to wallow in self-pity and think that everyone else in the world is to blame for where they are. I think this fosters the "I am the victim and my life sucks. Why bother?" mentality, which is not conducive to improving your life. It arguably gives the person in question an excuse to give up, because this attitude supports that they are not in control over their own lives.

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Assuming the homeless are not mentally ill? Over 70% of homeless people have a mental illness, for one. Do you think these people all have supportive families, networks of friends, MONEY, etc to even begin to know how or where to get help? It's really not as easy as you think. You think medication is free?

You must have missed this:

quote:

Originally posted by RandomGirl Unfortunately however, it seems that a majority of homeless people are conflicted with addiction and mental illnesses, which complicates the entire situation further.

I understand that these people are unique to the topic on hand and I do not think it is easy for them by any means. Once again, I am personally acquainted with people from this group, so I know what it is like for them.

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Do you have any idea what it's like in a shelter? Overcrowded, full of illness, BUGS, drug users, abuse. Did you know that tuberculosis is making a comeback specifically because of conditions in shelters?

I didn't say anything about the conditions of the shelters. This has nothing to do with the point I am making.

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Do you have any idea how depressing and humiliating it is for these people? They didn't just wake up one day and decide to join the pity party. Did you know that the number one reason that people end up homeless in Canada is due to lack of affordable housing? Is that a personal responsibility, when there aren't even jobs that pay someone enough to afford a place to live? Do you really think ANYone WANTS to live on the street??

Again, I never said that it wasn't humiliating etc. etc. I am saying that pointing the blame on someone else for where you are in life doesn't get you anywhere. You need to take control of the situation you are in and try and make it better. Pointing the finger at someone in my opinion, only fosters self-pity, the sense of victimization and the desire to give up. I certainly don't think it is a motivator to trying to improve your life.

However, I also acknowledged that most of these people are dealing with mental illnesses and addictions, which I said is a complicated issue and I understand that it is particularly difficult for them. It doesn't change my point however, which is that I do not think that blaming everyone else for how shitty your life is, is a positive thing/therapeutic.

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa You need to take control of the situation you are in and try and make it better. Pointing the finger at someone in my opinion, only fosters self-pity, the sense of victimization and the desire to give up. I certainly don't think it is a motivator to trying to improve your life.

Alright then Theresa, you go down to a homeless shelter and drop your sage advice on 'em.

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Alright then Theresa, you go down to a homeless shelter and drop your sage advice on 'em.

So effectively you are arguing that you think people who are homeless/mentally ill (and anyone else for that matter), should blame the situation they are in on someone else?

This doesn't infer that they should blame themselves either however. I am just saying that playing the victim card and accepting that there is nothing you can do because you have no control, is not a positive way to think about things, and as such, will not be of any help - especially from a mental perspective.

I never said that once, and I don't know where you're getting it from. I'm not going to sit here and attempt to sum up 3 years of my education for you to help you understand why the homeless are homeless, and why the addicted are addicted.

As I already said numerous times, if you really want to know more read Gabor Mate's book, and do some research on Cathy Crowe. She wrote a book too.

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