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-- Banksy comes to Toronto?!
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Originally posted by Endlesswave They can decide. If they don't think it's art then pay (or do it themselves) to have it removed. Also who defines what is/isn't art? Art galleries. (Look at how much his shit sold for in auctions...hundreds of thousands of pounds).

why should the owner of the building pay to have it removed when they never wanted it there in the first place?

As I already said....to properly remove spray paint isn't cheap.

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Originally posted by Endlesswave They can decide. If they don't think it's art then pay (or do it themselves) to have it removed. Also who defines what is/isn't art? Art galleries. (Look at how much his shit sold for in auctions...hundreds of thousands of pounds).

WOW really?

So you think that it should be up to the property owner to pay to remove some kid's unwanted mark? Im not just talking banksy but anyone. So tell me, what if i came to your house and shat on your front step, modelled it into a figurine and called it art? Well hey its art to me so it should be acceptable to you. And if not you should have it removed. Its in my right to do so according to your logic. I dont think youd be too happy about it though!

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Originally posted by PivotTechno What most of you forget is that the majority of graff artists don't give a flying fuck what you think of their tactics. The whole notion of graffiti is rooted in anti-establishmentarianism and is one of the original 4 B-boy/girl elements. You can't have yin without yang, and you can't expect to live in a crowded urban environment and not have a bunch of people who think that the landscape that surrounds them looks a little more colourful and interesting with the addition of some guerilla artwork. It always amazes me that people who live in large cities expect space, quiet and cleanliness.

I should expect my property won't be damaged by others. If someone lit your house on fire would you not be pissed an expect the party responsible to be punished according to the law. I'm sure the person just thought the night sky would just look better with flames in it.

From graff to arson = jumping the shark, big time.

Nice try, though.

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Originally posted by PivotTechno From graff to arson = jumping the shark, big time. Nice try, though.

Fine......if someone threw rocks through all the windows in your house because they thought the glass would look better on your floor....would that be okay with you?

Again, you're reaching. Graff is simply part of the urban landscape and has a relatively longstanding culture that accompanies it. Detroit notwithstanding, arson and throwing rocks through windows, to my immediate knowledge, do not.

If you really want to reduce the amount of graffiti, you should be petitioning the city to set up more urban centres and programs for low-income kids and teens. No money + boredom is always a surefire recipe for mischief.

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced Fine......if someone threw rocks through all the windows in your house because they thought the glass would look better on your floor....would that be okay with you?

Personally I feel all the gazillions of billboards and street advertisements are bigger eyes sores than any tag, throw up or piece you'll ever see from a "graffiti" artist.

Our urban landscape needs flavor to break the monotony. And just so you know there are MANY MANY ILLEGAL billboards in our city that people don't worry about. And also there are MANY MANY murals and graffiti pieces that ARE legal.

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Originally posted by Time2Burn Personally I feel all the gazillions of billboards and street advertisements are bigger eyes sores than any tag, throw up or piece you'll ever see from a "graffiti" artist. Our urban landscape needs flavor to break the monotony. And just so you know there are MANY MANY ILLEGAL billboards in our city that people don't worry about. And also there are MANY MANY murals and graffiti pieces that ARE legal.

and there are laws against some billboards because some people think they are eyesores. JUST LIKE GRAFFITI. Funny how that works eh?

I think that the law should be better enforced when it comes to unwanted graffiti and relaxed for those who actually want it. Same for billboards. I agree, monotony is boring. But lets let the people who own their own property decide for themselves what they wish to have on it.

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Originally posted by PivotTechno What most of you forget is that the majority of graff artists don't give a flying fuck what you think of their tactics. The whole notion of graffiti is rooted in anti-establishmentarianism and is one of the original 4 B-boy/girl elements. You can't have yin without yang, and you can't expect to live in a crowded urban environment and not have a bunch of people who think that the landscape that surrounds them looks a little more colourful and interesting with the addition of some guerilla artwork. It always amazes me that people who live in large cities expect space, quiet and cleanliness.

That pretty much sums it up.

Don't move to the boonies if you can't handle bad cell reception and mice infestations. Don't live on a houseboat if you can't handle rocking waves. Don't open a strip club in Riyadh if you can't handle being beheaded. Don't own a building with a big open side surface if you're not willing to accept the possibility of graffiti.

I can see everyones argument about blah blah blah it's wrong without permission, but it's somewhat a fact of life. And there's tons more wrong in the world that hurts people a lot worse than graffiti everyday so I wouldn't go wearing out your keyboard over a lil' spray paint here and there.

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Originally posted by GGM That pretty much sums it up. Don't move to the boonies if you can't handle bad cell reception and mice infestations. Don't live on a houseboat if you can't handle rocking waves. Don't open a strip club in Riyadh if you can't handle being beheaded. Don't own a building with a big open side surface if you're not willing to accept the possibility of graffiti. I can see everyones argument about blah blah blah it's wrong without permission, but it's somewhat a fact of life. And there's tons more wrong in the world that hurts people a lot worse than graffiti everyday so I wouldn't go wearing out your keyboard over a lil' spray paint here and there.

do u have a car or house? if so can i come decorate it how i see fit in the middle of the night?

So Jay, has anyone ever graffitied your car or house?

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Originally posted by Jayx1 do u have a car or house? if so can i come decorate it how i see fit in the middle of the night?

Do you do amazing work? If Banksy wanted to I'd let him. You're not Banksy.

Art via artists != vandalism by criminals.

2 different things.

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Originally posted by PivotTechno So Jay, has anyone ever graffitied your car or house?

yup so i guess in your eyes that sole prerequisite qualifies my opinion right?

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Originally posted by Endlesswave Do you do amazing work? If Banksy wanted to I'd let him. You're not Banksy. Art via artists != vandalism by criminals. 2 different things.

right and the key statement here is YOU WOULD LET HIM. You would grant him permission. But im talking about me. I think i draw well but you may not think so. So shouldnt it be your choice? Obviously since the statement you just made indicates that you would like to be able to decide who paints on your property based on their prior resume. so obviously youd be pissed off if i came and did something that you didnt like. And thats exactly what ive been saying here.

Thank you for proving my point.

No problem but, let me go further. You are talking of personal property.


In the case of most graffiti I am not. I'm talking of commercial property.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 yup so i guess in your eyes that sole prerequisite qualifies my opinion right?

Yup, 'cuz I would say you're simply projecting a "this is how I'd react if it happened to me" mentality onto others.

So, have you fully recovered emotionally and financially from the experience? Did it make you consider moving out of the city to more whitewashed pastures?

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Originally posted by Endlesswave No problem but, let me go further. You are talking of personal property. In the case of most graffiti I am not. I'm talking of commercial property.

commercial property IS personal/private property. No difference. And public property is owned by taxpayers.

The only property you should ever have 100% domain over is your own. Which is why they should change some bylaws to reflect that.

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Originally posted by PivotTechno Yup, 'cuz I would say you're simply projecting a "this is how I'd react if it happened to me" mentality onto others. So, have you fully recovered emotionally and financially from the experience? Did it make you consider moving out of the city to more whitewashed pastures?

and if i had said no i didnt experience this you would have said "what right do i have to speak about this since its never affected me?" The poverty discussion comes to mind. Face it, if i said the world was round youd argue for why its flat.

"whitewashed" eh? Funny talk coming from someone who complains alot about labels.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 "whitewashed" eh? Funny talk coming from someone who complains alot about labels.

Whitewashed, as in bereft of the graffiti that seemingly impacts your life on a daily basis.

For someone who purportedly wants to see considerably fewer laws and restrictions, you certainly seem to have a lot of control issues.

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Originally posted by PivotTechno Whitewashed, as in bereft of the graffiti that seemingly impacts your life on a daily basis. For someone who purportedly wants to see considerably fewer laws and restrictions, you certainly seem to have a lot of control issues.

Really? I guess you missed the part where i was arguing for the relaxation of bylaws so that those who want banksy etc to paint on their property can do so. Current bylaws prevent most of that as well.

Artists should have freedom to paint and owners should have freedom to decide if it goes on their property. Its actually quite simple.


Nice save on the whitewashed comment btw

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 do u have a car or house? if so can i come decorate it how i see fit in the middle of the night?

If I can sell that car for a million dollars when you are done, then yes, PLEASE paint my car. Don't bother asking first.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/7433882.stm

quote:

Originally posted by spitty If I can sell that car for a million dollars when you are done, then yes, PLEASE paint my car. Don't bother asking first. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/7433882.stm

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Originally posted by GGM And there's tons more wrong in the world that hurts people a lot worse

Weakest. argument. ever.

quote:

Originally posted by spitty If I can sell that car for a million dollars when you are done, then yes, PLEASE paint my car. Don't bother asking first. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/7433882.stm

so banksy now has two approved places to paint. I love how the people advocating for his skills are implying that they should have a choice over who gets to paint over their property as in banksy and others who they approve of......

hmmmmmm

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Really? I guess you missed the part where i was arguing for the relaxation of bylaws so that those who want banksy etc to paint on their property can do so.

No, I caught that. But you're missing an essential element that your relaxation of said bylaws hinges upon; the part where you've quite narrowly defined what constitutes art (when money has been exchanged betweent the artist and the indivudual who commissioned said art) and what constitutes graffiti (unlawful defacement of property). And so we come full circle to my points that a) you do indeed have control issues and b) that your so-called libertarian views are manufactured solely to conveniently serve Jayx1 and Jayx1 alone.

You keep tilting at those windmills, though - I'm sure all those kids from low-income families in Regent Park and other, similar areas of the city are hanging on your every word as to how to rectify this blight on our otherwise spotless metropolis.

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