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-- Toy Story 3 might be the best movie of the year according to critics
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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J What makes people enjoy films or cartoons from their childhood so much is not the unintentional humour or the cheesines: you can derive that entertainment from any amount of shit from any number of eras, including the present day. People like these films exactly because they can no longer view them as a six year old, and yet they can remember viewing them as a six year old. They have lost that innocence and their nostalgia is a yearning to reclaim it. Irony is an appropriate reaction because it is the opposite of a child's uncomplicated, earnest enjoyment of something. These jaded-before-their-time ironic twenty-somethings are yearning for something they don't seem to be able to do: the ability to enjoy something genuinely, in the moment.

Interesting explication there. That does sound about right to me. So basically it is a combination of fond memories and a kind of "mourning" their loss of the capacity to enjoy it without reservations.

I'm still working through this all in my head. There's a cultural/social theory here that I'm not sure has been widely expressed. I keeping raising the issue in discussions like this to see which parts people bounce back at me.

I think there are two different but connected types of youth-nostalgia at work amongst our generation. The first is the kind discussed in this thread - this premature nostalgia and idealisation of a lost innocence ahead of time. The second is the idealisation of something we never had in the first place, which is commonly manifested on TA by this love of 90s trance/prog/whatever as a better era, but is manifested in other musical circles as a love of 80s synth pop, the Beatles or other trad staples. I've seen a huge number of kids that have this idea that the best era of music has already been and gone, and they have a yearning to "be born 10/20/30 years earlier" to capture this lost zeitgeist.

Maybe social misfits just have a hard time figuring out why they're not happy, so they ascribe their woes to having been born at the wrong time.

I don't think this just applies to social misfits, although it doesn't seem to apply for everybody.

EDIT: It would be helpful if I could figure out if this issue is generation-specific or if it happens to many people at this stage of life, and I'm only noticing it now because I'm in my twenties and my parents aren't. It's difficult to imagine the Baby Boomer generation experiencing such feelings.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J EDIT: It would be helpful if I could figure out if this issue is generation-specific or if it happens to many people at this stage of life, and I'm only noticing it now because I'm in my twenties and my parents aren't. It's difficult to imagine the Baby Boomer generation experiencing such feelings.

As far as nostalgia trips are concerned, I am certain that it is a multi-generational phenomena. If you got past the advertisement for Sex and the City 3 or Gillette Penn's over-played sarcasm, the sociology professor verifies this. The full episode, which I've seen, also talks about how nostalgia trips are localized to a time which the individual has idealized, whether it's something they lived through, or not.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J The second is the idealisation of something we never had in the first place, which is commonly manifested on TA by this love of 90s trance/prog/whatever as a better era, but is manifested in other musical circles as a love of 80s synth pop, the Beatles or other trad staples. I've seen a huge number of kids that have this idea that the best era of music has already been and gone, and they have a yearning to "be born 10/20/30 years earlier" to capture this lost zeitgeist.

People who are fans of Renaissance fairs - especially prevalent here in America, for instance, love the over-played concepts of chivalry while they either play down or eliminate, altogether, the Black Death, Witch Hunts, persecution of Jews, wars, et al, which allows them to treat it as a singular event experienced by everyone, across Europe.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I've seen a huge number of kids that have this idea that the best era of music has already been and gone

I can't speak for others, but as someone who lived through rave's golden age, I can say it was better than it has been for the past few years. I think it would be a mistake for anyone to put limitations on the future by saying that it can't be amazing again though.

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Originally posted by EddieZilker People who are fans of Renaissance fairs - especially prevalent here in America, for instance, love the over-played concepts of chivalry while they either play down or eliminate, altogether, the Black Death, Witch Hunts, persecution of Jews, wars, et al, which allows them to treat it as a singular event experienced by everyone, across Europe.

Good point about those. I think the "nostalgia for something you never had" may just be plain old romanticism, not really nostalgia. Then again, I think what SYSTEM-J is talking about may be different than Renaissance fairs, because even if the twenty-somethings themselves never experienced, say, the '60s or '70s, they know plenty of adults who did. That kind of connection is lacking in Renaissance / medieval times enthusiasts. So maybe it's like a "borrowed nostalgia" or "nostalgia by proxy?"

I watched cloudy with a chance of meatballs the other day, and I was laughing so much

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Good point about those. I think the "nostalgia for something you never had" may just be plain old romanticism, not really nostalgia.

Perhaps it might be stretching the definition to its threshold of elasticity, but minus a former possession of the romanticized object, I think many of the same criteria occur. Red Letter Media (http://redlettermedia.com/), in his review of Avatar, cites an article(s) about a jump in suicides prompted by the idealized world of Pandora and a yearning to live there. Such a phenomena could hardly be considered 'nostalgic' being that the beholder has only witnessed a conception of something which does not exist.

What nostalgia is, whether it approaches pathological thresholds or not, is a form of escapism. That said, I don't think anyone is immune to it. Since I've left Austin, TX, for instance, I have yet to find as consistently decent, a culinary land-scape anywhere else I've lived. Now, without having lived in foodie cities, like Chicago, New York City, or San Francisco, I can't say Austin's the best but I still have my preferences - even for restaurants in Austin which have since closed.

Even those places I have been, outside of Texas, which offer cuisine comparable with or even better than what I've had in Austin, seem to be missing that indefinable, supernatural zest; that essential flavor of home which rests over each bite of food, like a regional accent permeating even the words of those who are living there from abroad. It is in the Pizza. It is in the Mexican and Chinese food. It is in the staid, quintessentially American greasy spoon. That flavor which says, I am home. This is who I am. This is where I am from.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Then again, I think what SYSTEM-J is talking about may be different than Renaissance fairs, because even if the twenty-somethings themselves never experienced, say, the '60s or '70s, they know plenty of adults who did. That kind of connection is lacking in Renaissance / medieval times enthusiasts. So maybe it's like a "borrowed nostalgia" or "nostalgia by proxy?"

Well, I think in the end, where it crosses thresholds into possibly pathological territory, is when you have a triangle of idealization, minimalization and devaluation. There is the idealization of whatever the nostalgic holds dear, in which the object is imbued with qualities which make it special. Minimalization is concurrent to idealization as a part of dismissing otherwise perceived qualities which detract from the uniqueness of the object. Devaluation occurs with objects which are in competition to the uniqueness of the object.

Not that I oppose to distinctions being made, but whether one has experienced it or not, may largely be immaterial since essentially the same mechanisms appear to be at work.

Well, I took the dip and went to check it out for myself n' wifey. Wanted to see the hoopla of 3D experience ($15.50 adult entrance), they give you the 'Ray Ban' looking glasses, which I kept even though they ask you to recycle them (fuck you, I paid $15 bucks for it!, I aint giving that shit back)

And it was fucking AWESOME!

They really stepped up the graphics and story line. All I have to say is that it clawed me.

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Originally posted by EddieZilker As far as nostalgia trips are concerned, I am certain that it is a multi-generational phenomena. If you got past the advertisement for Sex and the City 3 or Gillette Penn's over-played sarcasm, the sociology professor verifies this. The full episode, which I've seen, also talks about how nostalgia trips are localized to a time which the individual has idealized, whether it's something they lived through, or not.

I can't see that video due to territory restrictions. I appreciate that every generation will have nostalgia trips at some point, but the issue is when. It's natural for, say, the Baby Boomers to get nostalgic now, but were they nostalgic when they were my age? I think it's also important what they get nostalgic about, which points in their life or points of time which they never experienced at all.

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Originally posted by WittyHandle I can't speak for others, but as someone who lived through rave's golden age, I can say it was better than it has been for the past few years. I think it would be a mistake for anyone to put limitations on the future by saying that it can't be amazing again though.

I think that's fair enough, because you actually experienced that era, you were much younger and those days are gone, both for you and for the scene. That's legit 90s nostalgia. The nostalgia I'm talking about is that felt by people who were never there and who only heard the music years later. I've seen 18 year olds getting misty-eyed about the 1970s.

I definitely think there are specific conditions of my generation that could be responsible for this. I also think it's worth repeating that I used to feel like this, but no longer do.

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Originally posted by Maige I wonder if we'll fondly remember this thread years from now?

Yes. On our death bed, each and every one of us will look at the nurse and say our last words:

"In 2010 I took part in a discussion about a film called 'Toy Story 3', and now I know that I was..." and peacefully die having finally enlightened our last companion.

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Originally posted by Lira Yes. On our death bed, each and every one of us will look at the nurse and say our last words: "In 2010 I took part in a discussion about a film called 'Toy Story 3', and now I know that I was..." and peacefully die having finally enlightened our last companion.

I hope that my life doesn't turn out to be that worthless.

Also, why must we be mindful of our age to appropriately be nostalgic about something? If you remember something fond from your childhood, regardless of your current age, you should be allowed to reminisce about how it made you feel rather than wonder whether or not you are being a "pathetic misty-eyed twenty-something".

I think that I'll just remember that I started to take part in a lively discussion about Toy Story 3, but gradually the posts got longer and more hypothetical and I just started to scan read towards the end.

I will remember the miserly 55-year-old cynic masquerading as a 22-year-old, though. He never did get off that high horse, I recall.

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Originally posted by ziptnf I hope that my life doesn't turn out to be that worthless. Also, why must we be mindful of our age to appropriately be nostalgic about something? If you remember something fond from your childhood, regardless of your current age, you should be allowed to reminisce about how it made you feel rather than wonder whether or not you are being a "pathetic misty-eyed twenty-something".

You don't have to be mindful of a damn thing. Hollywood is banking on it.

The thing I love the most about this thread is that I've never seen Toy Story or Toy Story 2, and I'm not really thrilled about Toy Story 3 either... so it feels like I'm watching a foreign couple arguing in a language I can't understand about something I could care less, though I don't, because I'm certainly curious as to why something that apparently has no effect whatsoever on the history of the universe as we know it can spark such a heated debate.

Unless, of course, there's a Speak'n'Spell at some point in the trilogy. Is there?

I wouldn't call this a heated debate and it's not really about Toy Story.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I wouldn't call this a heated debate and it's not really about Toy Story.

Oh, sorry, I got carried away by the analogy, imagining an Arab woman with a frying pan on her hand swinging her arms around as the guy dodges the potentially fatal hits. And it isn't about Toy Story?! Hell, this IS like a conversation in a language I don't understand: even the little I thought I understood turns out to be wrong.

*skims over thread*

Beh, can't be arsed to pick it up from here. I agree with whomever said pretty much everything before the 90's sucked. Did anyone say that? If no one said that, I don't agree with any of you!

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