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quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I gave you more credit than this.

Never give me credit!! I can only vouch for how I played it and how I�ve seen it played. Maybe i/we/they sucked really badly.

Yeah, but there's so much wrong with what you're saying. How can you think you have an authority to discuss Halo's skill ceiling when you don't realise the game has grenade jumping and all kinds of climbing/jumping tricks? Or you think there's no need for navigating levels backwards? Or that combat should involve circle-strafing? Nobody circle-strafes in Halo. Nobody. Why would you even bother?

I really expected a guy who shits over conspiracy theorists for making brassy claims from total ignorance to at least have a basic understanding of what he's talking about before making such forceful and smug claims.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Yeah, but there's so much wrong with what you're saying. How can you think you have an authority to discuss Halo's skill ceiling when you don't realise the game has grenade jumping and all kinds of climbing/jumping tricks? Or you think there's no need for navigating levels backwards? Or that combat should involve circle-strafing? Nobody circle-strafes in Halo. Nobody. Why would you even bother? I really expected a guy who shits over conspiracy theorists for making brassy claims from total ignorance to at least have a basic understanding of what he's talking about before making such forceful and smug claims.

I can talk about halo�s skill ceiling because i�ve played the game and experienced the significantly slower gameplay, huge reticle, aim assists (on the original) and just the general ease with which you can hit people with minimal effort (PC). I did know it has grenade jumping, but never experienced it as an integral part of the DM experience, certainly not compared to the rocket jump of death from above (hey, perhaps im really wrong there). navigating a level backwards when you�re moving at a snails pace is hardly the same thing, not to mention that particular skill when done outside aint all that impressive.

I think we�re falling down on terminology as far as �circle� strafing goes. Strafing that includes adjustments for aim, I consider circle strafing (whether players move in a perfectly concentric circle or not). Ie, when playing halo, the gameplay is closer to how one might avoid a quake railgun (ie unpredictable strafing movements) but inevitably when the opposition player moves somewhere you end up strafing AND making an aim adjustment, which is circle strafing imo. I don�t mean it to mean 2 players who stand there and move together in a circle, nobody does that in quake either but I still call it circle strafing.

So... what? It involves a lot of moving and aiming simultaneously, therefore it's just Quake but slow? I don't get it.

I think we�ll just have to agree to disagree, I don�t wish to incur your wrath any more

wraaaaaaaaaaaaage

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I think we�ll just have to agree to disagree, I don�t wish to incur your wrath any more

I don't think we're arguing about the same thing anymore. You seem to be out to prove that Quake is more skillful and balanced than Halo. I'm not arguing that - I know Quake is more skilled and more balanced. However I still think you're in that myopic "pro gamer" mindset that proving a game is more skillful ends any debate on its merit. The point I'm making is that Halo plays considerably differently to other shooters, and because of the features in play at any given moment it's got more dimensions to it than most other shooters. To downplay those features suggests you've played the game as though it were Quake and essentially ignored them and the higher emergent tactics they entail.

Melee is a HUGELY important mechanic in a shooter.

That said, Halo was certainly not the first to use a melee mechanic.

Action Quake 2 had the kick mechanic, whereby you could kick a player away from you by jumping while they were "touching" you.

The bleed mechanic from AQ2 was also the precursor to health regen mechanic. Although, really, bandage mechanic was to STOP health bleed-out, the style of play of taking damage then ducking for protection to recover is exactly the same style of play seen now with shield regen and health recovery.

AQ2 was also the main inspiration for Counter Strike.

Most of Goldeneye's important addition to FPS gaming were on the single player front.

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