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-- Mormon mother "abuses" child, gets ridiculed by entire world
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Also, kids aren't really learning what consequences actually mean when you hit or threaten them. They're just learning how to avoid their parents' wrath. How is that a valuable life lesson? How can that be applied later in life to different situations? Just because a kid stops doing something you don't want them to do (because you hit or yelled at them), doesn't mean they actually understand or appreciate why they stopped doing it.

quote:

Originally posted by Miss Pie Also, kids aren't really learning what consequences actually mean when you hit or threaten them. They're just learning how to avoid their parents' wrath. How is that a valuable life lesson? How can that be applied later in life to different situations?

[Cool Story]
When I was 9 years old, I "desecrated" Virgin Mary's name by playing "Find the Word" in a ruler my Catholic school gave me. I don't remember what I found in the name "Mary" but I found the words "Magnet", "Anus" and "Lada" in the expression "Immaculate Mary" printed in the said ruler.

Amazed by the fact that you can find smaller words in bigger ones even if they're not related, I showed the ruler to a friend, who then took it away from me and started showing everyone else... 5 hands later, the teacher spotted it.

All I know is that religious people apparently didn't take my discovery lightly and were not in the least as thrilled as I was about my decomposition of a saint name. It was the trigger that made me rebel completely against my school as I was punished for something I didn't perceive as being wrong (but lead to me being expelled in the end of the school year) and I got the harshest beating ever in my life.

What did I learn from it? Religious people don't appreciate the value of inquiry and exploration when it comes to their beliefs... and it is a well useful lesson!
[/Cool Story]

CORe version: So, yeah, I did learn something after being spanked senseless and ostracised (though it was cute when the nuns later told me that "they had had a word with God and intervened so He wouldn't send me to hell").

I bet it was the word Lada that got them all riled up

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Originally posted by Miss Pie The belief that corporal punishment is effective is a culturally ingrained idea. People think "my parents smacked me and I turned out fine!" and believe that makes CP acceptable, but it isn't - and you'd be hard pressed to find research that supports the notion. One of the big issues with CP is that the overwhelming majority of people who use it to discipline their kids are poor and uneducated (cough*single parent families but mothers especially*cough). The reason for this is because they have more steessors and less support, thereby compounding their levels of frustation and anger. So where a more educated person with better support networks might have the time and knowledge to sit down and talk it through healthily with their child, a less educated person with less support will just get pissed and frustrated and lash out. A fundamental principle of discipline is that you never do it from a place of anger. Getting pissed at your kid cause they fucked up isn't a reflection of your kid's behaviour, it's a reflection of your inability to deal with problems. Kids need guidance, and if you don't think they learn much of how to behave in the world from the way they're disciplined, you'd be fooling yourself. Again, you wouldn't talk to/treat an adult that way to solve problems, why is it ok to treat children that way??

who the fuck punishes their kids with child porn?


actually, don't answer that

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Originally posted by Miss Pie Again, you wouldn't talk to/treat an adult that way to solve problems, why is it ok to treat children that way??

?

I treat adults that way to solve problems all the time.

Yeah but you're special. *pat on head*

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Originally posted by Arbiter ? I treat adults that way to solve problems all the time.

You know kung fu/taekwondo/karate... that's not fair!

Actually, I still need to figure out what sort of Asian ancestry you have. Which of the martial arts above do you know?

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Originally posted by Miss Pie Omg I would love to smash that fucking bitch's face right in.

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Originally posted by yukii I couldn't stop sucking my thumb at night, so when I was young my mom used to dip my thumbs in REALLY hot sauce (I didn't know) and yeah it never worked. I'm sure I cried my ass off but I kept the habit till I was 7 LOL

So is this why you won't suck krypton's "thumb"?

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Originally posted by bananas

Exactly. I can think of a few problems that would solve.

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Originally posted by Arbiter Exactly. I can think of a few problems that would solve.

It's Tae Kwon Do, isn't it?

A-ha! I knew you it, you're half Korean!

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Originally posted by Lira It's Tae Kwon Do, isn't it? A-ha! I knew you were half Korean!

Well, as long as I'm not half Corean...

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Originally posted by Esiotrat My parents (especially my mom) beat me until I was in my twenties

My mom hit me when I was 16, and I became so enraged I just about walloped her in the face. I told her, very seriously, if she ever hit me again, she would regret it and to never lay a hand on me again. She never did... I think she knew I would be good on my word. I'm amazed you let it go on for as long as you did.

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Originally posted by EgosXII I don't really think negative enforcement is that bad of an idea on kids: At least to an extent. the airy fairy parenting of today is as silly as the psychotic violence and neglect that used to happen. As everyone said, kids aren't capable of rationalising their behaviour in some cases... i watched a tiny bit of the video, and he knew he did something wrong, and then lied about it, do you let it go there? kids learn their behaviour from the parents (obivously)- this kid knew he was bad, and deserved to be repremanded (in the parents eye anyway), they understand physical denouncements on every level, is it really that bad? It works on animals. I guess its a case of context, but i really don't think physical punishment is a bad idea for kids at all times. I think the super-liberal parents have raised the bunch of ****s who are now ruining the cities who think they're invincible, omnipotent super-men, when they're really dickheads who never got corrected when they were bad as kids, and so have no concept of right and wrong. coming from someone without much experience with kids (no doubt obviously )

Physical punishment is never needed. It does not teach your child the proper lessons.

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Originally posted by Miss Pie Why do you think he was fighting in the first place? Research shows a very strong link between childhood (and adult) aggression problems, "bad behaviour" and corporal punishment. If you hit a child, all they're learning is that aggression is an acceptable way to solve problems. Discipline requires consistency, explanation, and consequences. A child should always know why they are getting in trouble, and the parent should always follow through with the punishment. Time outs and taking away privileges are effective if used properly. The major problem with discipline is that parents often don't follow through. When you yell at kids and hit them/punish them physically it affects their self esteem and ability to deal with problems in the future. But if you use explanation and non-physical consequences to discipline a child, they learn what it means to be accountable and how to solve problems constructively. How to control their anger, etc. Kids don't learn how to be idiots on their own, they learn it from their parents. Again, if you have to resort to hitting your kids to teach them a lesson, chances are you're an idiot and you're teaching your child to be an idiot too. Discipline requires patience. Hitting and shit is an easy way out for people who don't know any better. Hitting is a reaction out of anger/an inability to be patient and work through a problem constructively. Don't try to tell me it's not, lol. I mean, do you really think it's ok to treat children "cruelly and unusually"?? Is that how you would treat an adult? Children have the same rights as adults, and corporal punishment is abuse of human rights, plain and simple. Funny Gera, we showed that video in class when presented our research proposal about corporal punishment.

Exactly.

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Originally posted by geroin I agree with most but disagree with this, most kids (older) look at their peers, not parents and try to be like them, especially their best friends, if their friends are a bad influence and are idiots then your kid will act like that as well, just like shown in the video. Kids have to know their place and what is right and what is wrong, just by taking away privileges it won't teach a kid a proper lesson imo.

Older kids would not be poorly behaved if they had gotten proper discipline as children. The lessons/respect/understanding of what is right and wrong carries through into adulthood and as such, the individual is far more likely to make sound decisions and surround themselves with friends who do not conflict with those values. However, if your teenager is still causing problems, not only are there probably other issues involved, but you can still use the same tactics you would with younger children. Take away their cell phone, disconnect the internet, disconnect the cable, etc. etc. It's all about consistency and clarity.



Giving the child clear reasons why they are in trouble, and being consistent with punishment (always following through), the child eventually learns that they have to do as they are told and they understand why. There are loads of videos from Supernanny showing this technique, and it always works. You have to fight for it at the beginning (these are children who have never been properly disciplined), but once it starts working, it's an excellent deterrent. They know from consistency that if they get their "first warning", what is coming next and they usually cut whatever it is out. It's classical conditioning.

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Originally posted by Arbiter Well, as long as I'm not half Corean...

Don't worry, miss Park, you're 100% Corean in our hearts

When I was younger I got spanked, the belt, and soap in the mouth (not in the particular order though). The soap was for saying a word I learned in school, belt/spank was for being belligerent and disrespecting my parents.

I'm not usually a fan of physical punishment but at a younger age when your reasoning and maturity isn't high sometimes a good whack gets through to you. But I can see as a parent you have to watch out because you could over use it and become reliant on it because it gets results. Used sparingly its useful as a threat, like if you cross a line, you have something waiting in reserve.

And that's the reason IGK molests kids.

maybe if your parents used the belt on you, you'd be better behaved now.

Wow, sick burn bro.

An educational video from our middle eastern friends:

quote:

Originally posted by Miss Pie Why do you think he was fighting in the first place? Research shows a very strong link between childhood (and adult) aggression problems, "bad behaviour" and corporal punishment. If you hit a child, all they're learning is that aggression is an acceptable way to solve problems. Discipline requires consistency, explanation, and consequences. A child should always know why they are getting in trouble, and the parent should always follow through with the punishment. Time outs and taking away privileges are effective if used properly. The major problem with discipline is that parents often don't follow through. When you yell at kids and hit them/punish them physically it affects their self esteem and ability to deal with problems in the future. But if you use explanation and non-physical consequences to discipline a child, they learn what it means to be accountable and how to solve problems constructively. How to control their anger, etc. Kids don't learn how to be idiots on their own, they learn it from their parents. Again, if you have to resort to hitting your kids to teach them a lesson, chances are you're an idiot and you're teaching your child to be an idiot too. Discipline requires patience. Hitting and shit is an easy way out for people who don't know any better. Hitting is a reaction out of anger/an inability to be patient and work through a problem constructively. Don't try to tell me it's not, lol. I mean, do you really think it's ok to treat children "cruelly and unusually"?? Is that how you would treat an adult? Children have the same rights as adults, and corporal punishment is abuse of human rights, plain and simple. Funny Gera, we showed that video in class when presented our research proposal about corporal punishment.

so are guilt trips less psychologically destructive to kids than minimal physical pain?
also note that the woman clearly outlined everything the kid did wrong, and he admitted to doing the things, AND to lying about them to cover them up...

how can you not hate the spoiled, fucktard kids who never got punished, or got 'forgiven' as soon as they do anything wrong jenny? i am suprised

also: Kids are the same as adults, or they're not: They can't be less capable of understanding, while simultaneously having exactly the same rights.. are they aware of their behaviour, and good and bad or aren't they?

anyway i dont think the woman is right, but i don't see how corporal punishment is so bad: All punishment is going to have a negative effect, thats the entire point of it. I personally think that the fuckwits who are around these days with absolutely no respect and no sense of social correctness are a product of over-liberal parenting. imo you can definitely SEE how the lack of any physical punishment has left them, And i absolutely hate those kids/young adults..

Who said anything about guilt trips? Where did you get that from?

I clearly stated that alternate discipline, not NO discipline, is better than corporal pinishment.

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Originally posted by Miss Pie Who said anything about guilt trips? Where did you get that from? I clearly stated that alternate discipline, not NO discipline, is better than corporal pinishment.

removing posessions, and putting them in 'time out' etc? isn't that meant to make them feel bad?

Miss Pie, your sig seems relevant now.

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Originally posted by EgosXII removing posessions, and putting them in 'time out' etc? isn't that meant to make them feel bad?

In a way. I'd like to know how that equates to guilt tripping?

Of course they're supposed to "feel bad"; that's the point of negative reinforcement.


But yeah, can you please point me to some research/studies that show the benefits of corporal punishment, or that show it's more effective and beneficial than alternative/non physical forms of punishment?

How bout I show you the back of my hand instead

quote:

Originally posted by Miss Pie In a way. I'd like to know how that equates to guilt tripping? Of course they're supposed to "feel bad"; that's the point of negative reinforcement. But yeah, can you please point me to some research/studies that show the benefits of corporal punishment, or that show it's more effective and beneficial than alternative/non physical forms of punishment?

lol studies, why do you think i left psych? numbers are nice, but they get in the way of logic, and they don't account for people--

I was saying my opinion is based on my perception, and a strong correlation between corporal punishment becoming a faux pas and a generation of whiny, disrespectful dicks..

no parenting method is flawless: You can say that the alternative to corporal punishment works better WHEN EVERYTHING GOES PERFECTLY, but what if parents are lazy in their punishment on that side?? THATs what causes spoiled ****s imo... kids learn their actions have no consequences, and can get away with anything: If they cry they get cuddled, if they're bad they get put in their room for a bit, oh how horribleh...

what about behavioural psych then? surely kids begin to associate actions they get hit for as bad on a subconscious level, like pavlovian dogs, and will stop doing them..?

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