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I'm a Taurus, the best sign of all. Suckers.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN nutter or loser? maybe both?

Yes. I am also a drug addict on the weekends.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN a statistical anomaly isn't anything noteworthy. we're talking specifically about your star sign giving you certain personality traits; count how many people born in jan/feb who play ice hockey in australia. fuck all. so already, with a single change in environment, we see absolutely no statistical anomaly. we'd probably find a completely different one, because our school/sport years are at different times to the north america. there is no relationship. there is a correlation based on the social norms of the culture, not on the impact of heavenly bodies which have some secret mechanism to affect people, but only those born at a certain moment in space and time. it is bullshit on a homeopathic proportions.

If you read what I said, this has been pretty much my position the whole time. I'm explicitly denying that celestial bodies may have any impact on us, other than the occasional awe during starry nights. I didn't imply for a single minute that there is such a relationship.

I like to keep ideas around so we can criticise them and perhaps gain something out of it: perhaps we can find a correlation between date of birth due to cultural pressures and behaviour. And this is obviously going to be an enterprise much more modest than anything astrology ever promised - like you said, the social pressures in Australia are much different than those found in North America.

Except for my "live and let live" attitude and my toleration towards degenerating belief systems (because their presence may prove useful in the future), we don't really seem to disagree about much else.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN is this secret code for 'its a great way to distinguish ones mental competence by studying their beliefs in astrology'? if so, then we agree. is it a good indicator of being a little nutty? is the psychology of the belief system worthy of being diagnosed as some kind of mental disease? these are all valid questions, thanks for asking them.

I'd be inclined to say yes (in other words), yes, and I wouldn't go that far because we'd have to label too many people as "mentally ill" by these standards

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN as for the bolded, i see no reason whatsoever to promote a new-age god of the gaps in our study of the universe. 'i dont know' is a perfectly acceptable answer to life's questions. pseudo-science is a cancer and a cesspool from which other, equally-demented ideas spring forth in all their faggot glory. before you know it you're buying crystals for stu's mum for cheap blowjobs.

I'm not saying we should promote astrology. I'm saying we should let astrologists be, with some reservations, and see if they can come up with something useful someday. It's unlikely they ever will but, well, whatever floats their zodiacal boat.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN it is unacceptable to promote such notions of 'well, science hasn't got there yet so let's all eat shit sandwiches, nom nom nom'.

Maybe this is where we diverge: We need as many ideas as possible in our conceptual toolbox, including the bad ones. Why? Because we need to know what doesn't work so we can understand what's wrong about them (I'm talking more than just stars here, but also why it can't be anything else) and, on the extremely rare occasion, fix it and/or keep it on display to remind ourselves why that isn't a goal worth pursuing.

In short, we need ideas to knock and ideas to rock.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i dont know much about acupuncture. if it started out as woo and by sheer dumb luck turned out to have some kind of utility, then score one for the bad guys. the score is now 1 bajillion to 2 (if we count chiropractors). not sure im willing to take any bets on astrology bringing the count to 3 and i think defending the possibility of a third goal in this context is unreasonable.

I'd say it's probably the result of trial and error for thousands of years, much like everything else.

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Originally posted by djhaziel Horoscopes have given astrology a bad reputation.

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Originally posted by djhaziel Wounds bleed more when there is a full moon.

Fuck's sake, Moveson, we've had this talk already!

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Originally posted by woscar Fuck's sake, Moveson, we've had this talk already!

You sound like a Gemini ... fuck you I don't debate with geminis

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Originally posted by Lira If you read what I said, this has been pretty much my position the whole time. I'm explicitly denying that celestial bodies may have any impact on us, other than the occasional awe during starry nights. I didn't imply for a single minute that there is such a relationship. I like to keep ideas around so we can criticise them and perhaps gain something out of it: perhaps we can find a correlation between date of birth due to cultural pressures and behaviour. And this is obviously going to be an enterprise much more modest than anything astrology ever promised - like you said, the social pressures in Australia are much different than those found in North America. Except for my "live and let live" attitude and my toleration towards degenerating belief systems (because their presence may prove useful in the future), we don't really seem to disagree about much else. I'd be inclined to say yes (in other words), yes, and I wouldn't go that far because we'd have to label too many people as "mentally ill" by these standards I'm not saying we should promote astrology. I'm saying we should let astrologists be, with some reservations, and see if they can come up with something useful someday. It's unlikely they ever will but, well, whatever floats their zodiacal boat. Maybe this is where we diverge: We need as many ideas as possible in our conceptual toolbox, including the bad ones. Why? Because we need to know what doesn't work so we can understand what's wrong about them (I'm talking more than just stars here, but also why it can't be anything else) and, on the extremely rare occasion, fix it and/or keep it on display to remind ourselves why that isn't a goal worth pursuing. In short, we need ideas to knock and ideas to rock. I'd say it's probably the result of trial and error for thousands of years, much like everything else.

Hippy.

awesome

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Hippy.

A hippy would believe in astrology. I don't

Saw a license plate tonight, "HPPY MOM", with a "Hippy chicks rule!" bumper sticker nearby.

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Originally posted by Lira A hippy would believe in astrology. I don't

You�re all for tolerating the cesspool though, which is just as bad. Indeed it might even be worse, because you know better.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN You�re all for tolerating the cesspool

And why shouldn't I do that?

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Originally posted by Lira And why shouldn't I do that?

Nobody likes a hippy, Marcus.

Good thing we agreed I ain't one

No offense Marcus, but when I read your thoughts on some of the pseudo scientific subjects, a phrase from Carl Sagan comes to mind:

"Keep an open mind � but not so open that your brain falls out"

Lira has never struck me as the scientific type though... More the sage type.

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Originally posted by woscar No offense Marcus, but when I read your thoughts on some of the pseudo scientific subjects, a phrase from Carl Sagan comes to mind: "Keep an open mind � but not so open that your brain falls out"

What probably confuses you and pkc is that I don't think we should keep that open a mind: I don't even advocate taking astrology seriously. Otherwise I'd say all this stuff is useful... and, except for its popularity with girls, it isn't.

In a sense, I'm just "close-minded" as you are: I don't believe the supernatural claims of religion are well-founded (and I'm suspicious about their usefulness), I reckon the idea that celestial bodies can affect our behaviour based on the time we were expelled from a vagina is preposterous, and I consider alternative medicine in general a really irresponsible enterprise. Therefore, I'm not religious, I've never seen a good description of myself under the title "Capricorn guy" (Horoscopes will be quick to point out that Pisces girls are dreamy and Capricorn men are practical, yet my relationships is the exact opposite, for example), and my skin is an example of what happens when parents think it's a lovely idea to ignore experience and treat their offspring with distilled water.

However, and this is what you and pkc fail to realise:

• Science is a collective brainstorming enterprise: That's why we need as many theories as possible. That's why philosophy is useful to scientists (despite PKC's contempt), old paradigms have educational value, and keeping nutty ideas around is not ideally a bad thing - if you read Copernicus' biography, he got his main insight from an old Greek (or Arab, I can be wrong) dialogue that dismissed heliocentrism right away; Chomsky's rationalism was laughable in linguistics for more than a century before he brought it back from the dead; and so on. Sure, there's little to gain from marginalised theories because most of them are unlikely to bear any fruit in the future... however, there's much to lose if we suppress everything we don't believe in.

Wow,I was quite drunk during this process.

What I am going to say (out on a limb here) is that Horoscopes are way to vague and belong on the funny page with comics. Don't live your life by what your Horoscope tells you to do so for that day. You just might as well call a lame psychic hotline.

Now we all have traits of all signs with in us because we are Human but some traits are more dominate in certain signs.

Capricorn:

You possess charming manners and to the world you present a neat and attractive appearance, underneath which lies a thoughtful, loyal, sympathetic, ever proud nature. Having an averall good disposition and mild temper, it is rare for you to engage in hostility of any sort, but when your anger is aroused, it will most likely be due to some petty offense. Your personality displys certain dynamic traits when your natural timidity is overcome. Constantly rising above previous plateaus, you are able to attain over any obstacle by means of your potential for concentrating on the task at hand. In matters of love you assume a sensitive and reserved temperament. On occasion you will find yourself hurt and disillusoned because of your high ideals, but devotion and steadfastness in love pursuits will reap the greater happiness, In all respects, the maried life suits you fine as the expressive side to your personality will develop as the years go by. You enjoy a bright outlook on life and marriage. Persistent, ambitious and versatile, you are likely to succeed in work that requires patient research and investigation, Managerial positions, politics, the science and arts are rewarding fields for Capricorns.

I have tons of Cancers in my family and have also dated a few.

Cancer:

Happy by nature, the Cancerian faces obstacles and difficult tasks with determination and will~power. You are straightforward, generous and loyal to your friends. Most notably, you are responsive to all pleas for aid, being extremely sytmpathetic to those less fortunate, and are willing to give generously to charitable appeals. Though not quick to express your feelings or knowledge, you can make excellent companionship upon compulsion. Your love life dominates much of your thought and will play a key role in the future happiness. Displaying much tenderness, affection and devotion towards your beloved, you seek the comforts of a wholesome domestic life. Realizing that you are happiest in the married state, take care to select a mate that may afford your intellectual companionship. Future success lies along professional lines, as best suited to your analytical mind and powers of deduction. Cancerians may express themselves through law, medicine, the theater, musi or social service.

Could the fact that the mind as evolved so far advanced since Astrology in it's roots that these could possible why people fropm different signs have the same atributes? I was witnessed thenm myself.

Good to be a Capricorn.

Lira talks about himself better than anyone, lol.

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Originally posted by ModernNosferatu Not sure if this was sarcastic or not but Astrology does play apart in your personality, it's never 100% true but it has a great degree in relevance. A Horoscope is some daily vague thing you find on your phone,website or your local paper. It is so vague it's words can comply with anyone due to it's vagueness.

I wasn't being sarcastic ... I have many anecdotes in which Astrology has been spot on. I found a better name for it "Cosmobiology".

I'm a Taurus and my ascendent is Aquarius

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Originally posted by djhaziel I wasn't being sarcastic ... I have many anecdotes in which Astrology has been spot on. I found a better name for it "Cosmobiology". I'm a Taurus and my ascendent is Aquarius

Dude, what's more likely? That hundreds of years of successes in the fields of physics and behavioral sciences are wrong, or that you suffer from a bad case of confirmation bias?

Lets just let this Thread go and have some fun

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Originally posted by woscar Dude, what's more likely? That hundreds of years of successes in the fields of physics and behavioral sciences are wrong, or that you suffer from a bad case of confirmation bias?

My take on it is that Cosmobiology is like a weather report .. the tendencies will always be there ....it's up to you if you want to use an umbrella and prevent yourself from getting wet on a rainy day or not go out overly dressed on a hot summer day .

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