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-- Was the Canadian government right in severing diplomatic relations with Iran?
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Originally posted by jchung52 lol at Harper receiving a World Statesman of the Year http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/p...?service=mobile

Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize and who knows how many people he had killed with drone strikes.

Hehe your views have changed indeed buddy.
Iran is indeed rich in resources and that problem because if the current regime was to leave today they will be replaced immediately by a American approved puppet leader and all of the profits of the nation will flow out of the country to the usual players.Look at Iraq for example they got oil too but the living conditions is brutal and for the most part the people dont see any of the oil profits themselves. I'm sure you'll agree with me on that.

Another problem with Iran is that there really inst any other alternatives out there to replace the mullahs. The Shah days are long gone and I dont think any sane person would want to have mujahedin-e khalq to take over the country because those assholes are even more fucked in the head then the mullahs.

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Originally posted by Cyrus King It's both. Islam is forceful barbaric and perceived literally unlike Judaism and Christianity which has evolved into spirituality.

And what about hardcore orthodox jews, or the menonites and amish? They arguably haven't evolved spiritually much either, and take their religion quite literally as well.

Don't get me wrong, I think all sides in this equation share blame for the the problems in the middle east. Israel for continuing to persecute and repress the Palestinians people, The United States with their "meddling" foreign policy, and Iran for continued attempts to provoke the "west". I could go on, that whole region is fucked up. But it isn't exclusively an "islamic" problem. If you're going to call it that, then you have to also place the blame on the jews and christians in washington.

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Originally posted by jester Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize and who knows how many people he had killed with drone strikes.

Indeed and that's why such awards should not be taken seriously at all. Appeal of Conscience Foundation was created by a New York rabbi in 1965. Harper won the award largely because of his support for Israel and his criticism of Iran.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer Hehe your views have changed indeed buddy. Iran is indeed rich in resources and that problem because if the current regime was to leave today they will be replaced immediately by a American approved puppet leader and all of the profits of the nation will flow out of the country to the usual players.Look at Iraq for example they got oil too but the living conditions is brutal and for the most part the people dont see any of the oil profits themselves. I'm sure you'll agree with me on that. Another problem with Iran is that there really inst any other alternatives out there to replace the mullahs. The Shah days are long gone and I dont think any sane person would want to have mujahedin-e khalq to take over the country because those assholes are even more fucked in the head then the mullahs.

Well my views in Islam have always been the same.. But my views about puppets governments and all that other stuff has changed slightly.

If we take your analogy of Iran being taken advantage of by the USA ( resource wise) we could say the same about Canada. We are basically a puppet of the USA. Many countries are. I would rather have a non religious somewhat more humane dictator like Mubarak in power of Canada than a dirty pedophile worshipping turban wearing barf face Muslim fundamentalist.

It's really the lesser of the evils.

I was once speaking to a Lebanese who was under the occupation of Israel and Assad...

He said if you did something bad in Lebanon.. The Israelis would punish you by putting you in a cell and keeping You there for 24 hours for something petty.

When Assad took over through hezbollah... People just dissapeared for doing something similar. Hezbollah is controlled by Iran.

Any Lebanese agrees that both Israeli and Syrian occupies must go.. But it was better when the Israelis occupied Lebanon .



In the case of Iran, I think anyone would be better than those shit heads

Islam must be eradicated from all forms of government. It is a disease to humanity

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Originally posted by LightsOut And what about hardcore orthodox jews, or the menonites and amish? They arguably haven't evolved spiritually much either, and take their religion quite literally as well. Don't get me wrong, I think all sides in this equation share blame for the the problems in the middle east. Israel for continuing to persecute and repress the Palestinians people, The United States with their "meddling" foreign policy, and Iran for continued attempts to provoke the "west". I could go on, that whole region is fucked up. But it isn't exclusively an "islamic" problem. If you're going to call it that, then you have to also place the blame on the jews and christians in washington.

Jews and Mennonites and Christians don't go ape shit and kill people or riot and burn embassies becuase of a YouTube clip about their prophet ...

Christ has been mocked many times in the media... Even on south park.. I don't see Europe burning and rioting.

Islam and the majority of the Muslim world need to grow the fuck up and chill and stop worrying about YouTube clips... And cartoons.

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Originally posted by Cyrus King Islam and the majority of the Muslim world need to grow the fuck up and chill and stop worrying about YouTube clips... And cartoons.

Its called blue balls, and they are mad as hell.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Iran did get beat up by Saddam, because Saddam used brutal tactics against Iran. He sent hundreds of Scuds against Tehran alone, killing many civilians. Many Iranian civilians were captured, tortured, killed and their skulls taken back to Iraq. Then Saddam used chemical weapons against Iranian troops. Iranian infantry was sometimes so short on ammunition, they charged into battles with nothing but fists and empty guns. But in the end, Saddam was forced to retreat, and Iran won. Iranians fought hard and persevered, against all odds. While Syrians often ran away from IDF forces, Iranians didn't. I am not praising the Islamists, I am just noting their bravery.

The War ended because a bunch of Mullahs went to Khomeini and begged him to STOP the madness. You are right Iran was short on EVERYTHING except Human power which was an Army armed with nothing but bare hands at times. Khomeini came on T.V and said something along the lines of him being forced to drink a glass of poison..The piece of shit Saddam didn't want to end it, He was bombing and throwing missiles every hour on the hour until the jerk off Mullah ended it. Saddam would go on forever otherwise..

So happy they're both fucking DEAD

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Originally posted by Cyrus King It's really the lesser of the evils.

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Originally posted by Cyrus King Jews and Mennonites and Christians don't go ape shit and kill people or riot and burn embassies becuase of a YouTube clip about their prophet ...

They don't have the largest military on earth currently engaged in wars against 2 of their countries and drone attacks against many more. They don't have manipulation and deceit currently taking place in the politics of all their countries. Nor have they been heavily fucked with for the last 60 years and continuously raped for the sake of a liquid beneath the ground. It's really an apples to oranges comparison between those religions and Islam. There is extreme hate of the US in this region with causes far beyond some recent bush league documentary. Think of a room slowly filling up with gas over a long period of time and that film being the spark that caused the explosion.

It truly is sad though that the actions of a small group of people will likely (knowing the typical American response to this type of thing) cause the deaths of many, many thousands more. Assuming the whole 9/11 story is true just look at how many Afghans and arguably Iraqis had to die from the actions of 30-40 people.

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Originally posted by Cyrus King It's both. Islam is forceful barbaric and perceived literally unlike Judaism and Christianity which has evolved into spirituality. I'm an atheist and admit my bias towards organized religion... But Islam is something else. It is a way of life . Look at every single nation in the world that is Muslim.. Compared to secular nations. The Muslim ones are SHITTY and the secular ones are not. I'm Persian and iran has become shitty in the last 30 years. Hmm I wonder why... Islam is the root of radical extremism.

They need to overthrow that Islamist leadership in Iran and the first thing to do afterwards is rename the country to Persia! Much better name, and indeed Persia has great culture and history that is different from Islam, different language too. Why are they pandering to Saudi religious zealots, I don't understand either.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium They need to overthrow that Islamist leadership in Iran

This is key. And the change needs to come from within. If it happens because of American/Israeli intervention, Iran is just going to end up as another Iraq/Afghanistan run by militant warlords and religious sects.

Let's see Iranian score, shall we?

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Originally posted by LightsOut This is key. And the change needs to come from within. If it happens because of American/Israeli intervention, Iran is just going to end up as another Iraq/Afghanistan run by militant warlords and religious sects.

That�s exactly it. We�ve had just enough of these interventions. The whole thing is a scam and many are now beginning to realize it too. This is their way to getting their foot inside a sovereign nation and taking over all of their resources.

Yes, and these protests and internal changes will be highly effective and achieve democracy with no problem. Not.

Parallels can be drawn between Syria and Iran. Both are bloodthirsty authoritarian regimes which will use every tool at their disposal to keep in control.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E...ection_protests

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E...ranian_protests

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Yes, and these protests and internal changes will be highly effective and achieve democracy with no problem. Not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E...ection_protests http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E...ranian_protests

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaceful_Revolution

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velvet_Revolution

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani...9Foara_protests

http://www.tallinn-life.com/tallinn...ging-revolution

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Way

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Originally posted by GGM They don't have the largest military on earth currently engaged in wars against 2 of their countries and drone attacks against many more. They don't have manipulation and deceit currently taking place in the politics of all their countries. Nor have they been heavily fucked with for the last 60 years and continuously raped for the sake of a liquid beneath the ground. It's really an apples to oranges comparison between those religions and Islam. There is extreme hate of the US in this region with causes far beyond some recent bush league documentary. Think of a room slowly filling up with gas over a long period of time and that film being the spark that caused the explosion. It truly is sad though that the actions of a small group of people will likely (knowing the typical American response to this type of thing) cause the deaths of many, many thousands more. Assuming the whole 9/11 story is true just look at how many Afghans and arguably Iraqis had to die from the actions of 30-40 people.

This mess of ideology and thought was already there before America Meddeled in the middle east.

Before 60 years, islam has and will continue to shit and diarrhea wherever it goes.

look at the way all these monkeys are acting around the middle east right now! Burning a locally owned KFC in lebanon... burning German flags now???

These animals have to be civilized.

ATATURK my hero, did the right thing when he modernized turkey.. he seperated Church and state very strictly.. and when the muslim shit head mullahs there tried to make it into what Iran is today.. he chopped all their fucking heads off. EXCISED THE CANCER FROM HIS COUNTRY

THe Shah of iran was too nice to the clerics.

THe Shah of iran was too nice to the clerics.



My thoughts exactly !!

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King

Absolutely agree with you on Ataturk and what he was able to do. But, modernization, creating the secular state, and his many other accomplishments happened within and they happened with bettering Turkey as the motivator. As soon as you have a third party involved the motivations lie with them as well and it's hard for the people to get on board. The list of successful revolutions prior to 1950 is substantial. Since then, it's pretty short. The CIA's creation and their dire need to meddle in everything is a key factor imo. The list of coups and attempted coups started by the States since the CIA came about 65 years ago is quite a long one. What they've done during the last 40 years in Latin America alone is absolutely atrocious.

quote:

Originally posted by GGM Absolutely agree with you on Ataturk and what he was able to do. But, modernization, creating the secular state, and his many other accomplishments happened within and they happened with bettering Turkey as the motivator. As soon as you have a third party involved the motivations lie with them as well and it's hard for the people to get on board. The list of successful revolutions prior to 1950 is substantial. Since then, it's pretty short. The CIA's creation and their dire need to meddle in everything is a key factor imo. The list of coups and attempted coups started by the States since the CIA came about 65 years ago is quite a long one. What they've done during the last 40 years in Latin America alone is absolutely atrocious.

You are right about the CIA meddling.. but i dont think in this day and age with all the social networking and communication, that the CIA has that type of power to influence.

Its very difficult now.

I still believe that the root cause of this retardness is ISLAM. If these countries were christian or secular, the behaviour would have been more civilized.

Islam makes it extremely blashphemous to go against it.

One guy killed theo van goh in Holland for making a film that dealt with womens rights in Islam..they are fucking retards.. and i hope israel bombs iran and gets rid of those towel headed smelly fucks

everything ataturk did is an ancient history. turkeys neo-ottomanism is ever present in the balkans to this day.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King One guy killed theo van goh in Holland for making a film that dealt with womens rights in Islam..they are fucking retards.. and i hope israel bombs iran and gets rid of those towel headed smelly fucks

Are you insisting that the backwardness of an extremist minority warrants a military attack on a whole population? How exactly will this lead to a a better or more secular Iran at the end of the day? Please do explain yourself.

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Originally posted by jad Are you insisting that the backwardness of an extremist minority warrants a military attack on a whole population? How exactly will this lead to a a better or more secular Iran at the end of the day? Please do explain yourself.

In the case of Iran, yes. BEcuase that minority can cause MAJOR affects. Many people think that Bombing iran will reunite the people behind the mullahs, but i think the opposite.

Nobody likes the mullahs. 70% of the country is under 30 and they hate their leaders.

These rulers are animals. THey will stop at nothing to gain power and spread Islam by force. Already they are causing problems in Turkey. LOok what they are doing in Syria. Look at how they ruined Leabnons lustre ever since they began supporting hezbollah.

They want a bomb. They will not use it, but use it as leverage to wage more of their archaic shit.

Not only this, they are evil. They have ruined Iran and will not go without force. They will kill everyone they can to stay in power.. just look at how they are dealing with Assad and his response to Syria. Who do you think is feeding him?

The mullahs are not responsible people and bombing specific targets to weaken them so they can be overthrown is plausable.

If they are not forced out.. (and i think bombs would greatly help),,, they will continue their death cult ways

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Originally posted by LightsOut http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaceful_Revolution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velvet_Revolution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani...9Foara_protests http://www.tallinn-life.com/tallinn...ging-revolution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Way

Note that I mentioned protests in Iran between '09 and '12 - all are failed protests, and you mentioned examples of successful revolutions, ironically all involving former Warsaw Pact states (which should be all grouped into one). The big difference is that Iranian regime has shown that its willing to use the full brunt of force to maintain power. Just like Assad's Syria. Not the same as Velvet Revolution. The best analogy would instead be these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianan...rotests_of_1989

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungar...olution_of_1956

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athens...echnic_uprising

etc.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Note that I mentioned protests in Iran between '09 and '12 - all are failed protests, and you mentioned examples of successful revolutions, in mostly Eastern Europe. The big difference is that Iranian regime has shown that its willing to use the full brunt of force to maintain power. Just like Assad's Syria. Not the same as Velvet Revolution. The best analogy would instead be these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianan...rotests_of_1989 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungar...olution_of_1956 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athens...echnic_uprising etc.

Obviously not every protest/movement is going to be successful. You said that "protests and internal changes will be highly effective and achieve democracy with no problem. Not." Protesting and politcal change brought on by internal revolution can 100% work, and has in the past. Russia was prepared to, and did use force repeatedly, for decades, to keep the iron curtain in place. Maybe not in the velvet revolution specifically, but that's just an example of how perfectly these types of revolutions can work in the right circumstances. Not even a single shot fired. Regardless, if the options on the table are 1) military intervention from the west, or 2) an uprising from within, I'd take the uprising any day.

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