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-- European Politics Thread: Netherlands, France, Germany, Great Britain, and Narnia 2017
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quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Those pesky human beings seem to be very reluctant to vote for leftist politicians to enact your plans. They seem to prefer voting for things like Donald Trump and Brexit. They very rarely vote for Green parties, and yet you're agreeing with the guy slamming a Green party.

I'm just tired of seeing this as an 'us vs them' and have learned to look beyond. I've hated republicans and conservatism since high school, I had to move on.

Firstly, fuck you australians and you electricity bills. My bill here in Cali was $4k+ a year for a 2bed house, all going to the DWP, a bunch of cvnts that gave themselves endless raises during the worst economic downturn in their history.

As we speak, electricians are wiring my new house and I'm going 100% LED and latest efficiency standards. My Electricity bill os not even go to be $1k this year. Yes, big upfront outlay, but over 5-10 years it pays for itself.

In this respect expensive electricity changes people's behaviour but as building code requires everyone to conform, we're going to reach a point where energy consumption is a fraction of what it used to be and therefore will reduce the deficit between what green energy can supply and what we need.

Two weeks ago, the Cal department of energy released figures that Solar (alone) managed to produce enough energy to meet 50% of the required need here.

So those saying that Green energy can't do it, are living in the past. The only problem is that doesn;t really take in to account the energy or resources required to make and install solar panels and the batteries needed to make them viable.

It's also why Hydrogen powered cars is such a fantastically abhorrent idea.

Solar's not really an option for England (lol) but there's no reason places like africa and south america can't ship their energy surplus.

quote:

Originally posted by wotyzoid I'm just tired of seeing this as an 'us vs them' and have learned to look beyond. I've hated republicans and conservatism since high school, I had to move on.

Perhaps stop seeing this as 'evil capitalists vs innocent good people' then?

Its just a broken system. Point blank.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Firstly, fuck you australians and you electricity bills. My bill here in Cali was $4k+ a year for a 2bed house, all going to the DWP, a bunch of cvnts that gave themselves endless raises during the worst economic downturn in their history.

Pff, Australians. According to my provider, my projected electricity bill for 2017 is �778.08, and our flat doesn't even have gas. We use electricity to heat, cook, everything.

quote:

Originally posted by wotyzoid I'm just tired of seeing this as an 'us vs them' and have learned to look beyond.

Huh? Who is "them", exactly? You're the one apportioning all the blame (and the solution) onto privatisation and capitalism. I'm saying we hit everyone from every angle we can, big businesses and ordinary people, and if the costs of living go up, tough shit.

My problem now is with the structure not necessarily with the people that occupy it.

quote:

Originally posted by wotyzoid Its just a broken system. Point blank.

Oh, well, if you say so.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Huh? Who is "them", exactly? You're the one apportioning all the blame (and the solution) onto privatisation and capitalism. I'm saying we hit everyone from every angle we can, big businesses and ordinary people, and if the costs of living go up, tough shit.

The 'them' in context would be the people you said are voting against my ideas. Yes I'd still have faith in them.

But I'm with you, again, with equity. I would just be a lot more radical about it.

edit: If regular people are only directly responsible for x% of co2 emissions and industry is responsible for y% co2 emissions, it is stupidity to tax them anything other than x and y respectively.

You do realise that any tax on 'industry' will just be passed down to the 'regular people', yes?

Really, the best thing to do, in my opinion, is to make any tax very clear, in an effort to cut consumption. Have a tax on the people who are using the energy, and put it clearly on their bill, so that they think more about running their AC or Heating.

That would be fine. Things that have detrimental costs and would be taxed, such as carbon emissions, should be abandoned anyway. If the companies that provide them go broke, that's a good thing.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J We're not yet at the stage where we can completely replace dirty energy sources with green ones, but you are fucking stupid and negligent if you think that means we shouldn't even bother trying to start the transition. Your country will be right at the top of the Fucked List when the sea-levels start rising, and it will be within your children's lifetimes. Chew on that next time you're driving them to football training.

Wait, where did I say we shouldn't do anything?

Just bought an A+++ washer dryer, already have a very well insulated house, insulated glass everywhere, efficient combination boiler. Heating and cleaning is the larges power consumption in a household.

Lighting / Fridge, tv, washing, ironing, etc / heating, warm water, cooking / car



Lightning I'll replace over time to led, no hurry as little is gained because all already is halogen. I did change some halogen lights we often use to LED though.

For our country rising sea-level will be a huge problem, for my kids I don't worry as long as they stay in this area as we in the south of Limburg are 100+ and right here even 184 meters above sea-level. London and a huge part of Belgium and Germany already will be swimming long before us.
Floating would create a huge mess everywhere, at 60m we're still save but it will be crowded here beyond imagination: http://geology.com/sea-level-rise/netherlands.shtml

We had two 2,5 Megawatt, 120 meter high windmills over here since 2005 for 10 years. They sold them as they were unprofitable. Now they are somewhere in Poland. How the hell is that possible?
The entire horizon is filled with windmills at the German side of the border.
Probably only heavily subsidized windmills are worth building:

Ever thought of this? http://instituteforenergyresearch.o...earth-minerals/

CO2 bullshit solutions. Stupid Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV you can see everywere here. It can drive 20 km on one battery charge!!, yes no typo 20 km. Business people driving it laughed for years. Now the subsidizing stops, money all other people eventually paid, not a single one will be sold any more.

quote:

Originally posted by wotyzoid That would be fine. Things that have detrimental costs and would be taxed, such as carbon emissions, should be abandoned anyway. If the companies that provide them go broke, that's a good thing.

Kenny, what is it that you do to improve the collective welfare of the world?

A little bit loaded, don't you think?

quote:

Originally posted by Trance-M Ever thought of this? http://instituteforenergyresearch.o...earth-minerals/

You're citing a website that praises Donald Trump's energy policies on its front page. Forgive me for being unconvinced.

This is just another example of what I pointed out earlier - highlighting some supposed hypocrisy in a green policy as an excuse to ditch it completely. China are actually getting on the environmental bandwagon in a big way after discovering first-hand how detrimental it is to heavily pollute and poison its own citizens. The problems of Chinese mining and industry are an issue that can and are being tackled separately. If China can sort its industrial act out, where does that leave the criticism of wind power? Furthermore, these are all criticisms of start-up costs. The conversion to green power is not going to cheap, pretty or bloodless, but in the long term it is necessary.

An interesting article on the UK's investment in off-shore wind, which doesn't quite chime with your claim that the technology is useless and inefficient: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...ay-yet-pay-off/

quote:

Originally posted by wotyzoid A little bit loaded, don't you think?

As a good blue blood I'm normally quite loaded, I'm afraid, as are my questions

I am slightly serious, though. You are always complaining about evil rich people etc, and how they are making the world a worse place through their profit motives. What do you do to make the world a better place?

even distribution of resources, for starters

Literally the only way of reading that statement is that you suck up the resources of others more productive than you, is that what you actually mean?

Yeah, whatever moocher ideology Ayn Rand warned you about. The opposite of your "I got mine, fuck you."

Productive is hilarious.

Very productive to drill a hole in the fucking ocean floor and let a bunch of oil out.

Exactly how many drugs do you do, on an average week?

All of them.

Amusingly, it's people like you who make people like me more conservative, thus actually, in all probability, making things worse for yourself and those like you.

Though of course you don't really care, as long as people like me suffer, since all you care about is equality, not actual general well-being.

Alas.

I should probably stop responding to your messages, seeing as how they're so ill informed and completely stupid. We'll see if my hubris allows that, or if I'll feel compelled to continue to point out just how worthless and stupid you and your ideas are.

Whatever helps you sleep at night. Enjoy your privilege.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J An interesting article on the UK's investment in off-shore wind, which doesn't quite chime with your claim that the technology is useless and inefficient: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...ay-yet-pay-off/

I think at this point you can still question if it's the best time to start building those massive windfarms at sea.
Something for sure needs to be done, but maybe it's better to wait for bigger steps which can bring better results a much shorter period of time: https://ecoswing.eu/project

Same for massive lithium-ion battery storage.

Again, Kenny, I just want to ask you, what is it you do to improve the world?

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