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-- The end of Lightning Records...
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http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...&threadid=51623

I've given some thought about this and, yes mp3's stimulate the music industry, it makes it possible for unknown artists to spread there music, unknown songs get heard by alot of people (if it wasn't for mp3's i'd probably be listening to rock/ metal, as do alot of people). It's also a great way to promote a song.

But on the other hand, it used to be

buy compilation cd-->find good songs-->buy the vinyls

Now it's download mp3-->find good songs--> buy vinyls

So eventhow we are still buying the vinyls, I think the industry DOES lose money because of the easy access to music (but it brings people into contact with new music too...)

Complicated situation IMO...

oh yes....swamper's famous mp3 article....hehehehhe

i have read a lot of the responses in this article. sure mp3 can be the cause in the loss of cd sales, but surely, it has only increased vinyl sales over the past couple of years. lightning records was great, as it came out with many good artist who did great songs, but it also had a whole mess of shit that was not too great. signing so many artists to one label, i think, will lead to the downfall of any label. also having so many sub divisions can be harmful. for example, look at black hole, they have i dont know, maybe 5 or 6 sublabels taht i can think of (itwt, songbird, black hole avanti, and others i cant think of the name). if you take a look at lightning records, they have so many subdivisions, that sign too many different artists, it really hurt them. and as other people said earlier, lots of record companies are started by artists who probably did not get a business managment degree, resulting in bad managment, in turn leadin to signing too many people a nd pressing out too many vinyls or cds that dont even get sold. mp3 really only helped vinyl sales. a few years ago, before mp3 went big, how many of you in here ever bought a vinyl, and all you guys who put the sole blame on mp3, did you ever even buy a vinyl. yea i have bought vinyl, a lot of mine are from lightning (or a subdivision). to blame mp3 is a cheap cop-out that some of you who are just mad are using. thinka bout how much you knew about trancea few years ago. all you probably knew was pvd, tiesto and corsten. mabye if armin was releasing cds back then we would have known him too. the way i got started was buying cds, and since maxi cd isnt really available for most tracks, i would find the artists from teh cd i like and search for more songs by them on napster. i think the electronic music industry is sort of catching on to the cd maxi idea, because look at the usa music scene. not that i like rap or rock or pop, but they release cd singles and shit. but i guess its diffrent with trance, personally i like to have the full single of a song rather than a mixed version. i think had there been equal amounts of cdm and vinyls being put out for songs, it could have increased sales, because i know a lot of people around here would like to support the artists but have no turntables. every one has got to have a cd player in there home or a cd drive on their computer these days. if you only have a floppy, i dont know how you could put windows or whatever os you use on the computer. cd maxi is good too, because it can be preserved better than vinyls, because one scratch in the vinyl, its fucked, there is no vinyl doctor, but there ways to remove scratches off of cds. and whoever says cdjing isnt real djing. lots ofpeople who dont even know how to dj say this shit, and it pisses me off, because djing with cds is the same as vinyls, basically. anyways, i think mp3 has helped vinyl sales, but it fucked the cd sales over. it is sad that lightning records closed, but its not the end of the world. a lot of the good artists from lightning can get a contract at any record label they please i am sure. so we just have to wait and see what happens

quote:

Originally posted by Swamper http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...&threadid=51623

swamper YKTS!

mp3 haters - shot down and demoted

i bet all those who are blaming mp3's have about a 100 or so mp3s on thier hard drive..so dont be hipocrates

liquidxxd: Well put, I agree with ya!

quote:

Originally posted by tranceaholic i bet all those who are blaming mp3's have about a 100 or so mp3s on thier hard drive..so dont be hipocrates

Yup! I think so too!

quote:

Originally posted by liquidxxd i have read a lot of the responses in this article. sure mp3 can be the cause in the loss of cd sales, but surely, it has only increased vinyl sales over the past couple of years. lightning records was great, as it came out with many good artist who did great songs, but it also had a whole mess of shit that was not too great. signing so many artists to one label, i think, will lead to the downfall of any label. also having so many sub divisions can be harmful. for example, look at black hole, they have i dont know, maybe 5 or 6 sublabels taht i can think of (itwt, songbird, black hole avanti, and others i cant think of the name). if you take a look at lightning records, they have so many subdivisions, that sign too many different artists, it really hurt them. and as other people said earlier, lots of record companies are started by artists who probably did not get a business managment degree, resulting in bad managment, in turn leadin to signing too many people a nd pressing out too many vinyls or cds that dont even get sold. mp3 really only helped vinyl sales. a few years ago, before mp3 went big, how many of you in here ever bought a vinyl, and all you guys who put the sole blame on mp3, did you ever even buy a vinyl. yea i have bought vinyl, a lot of mine are from lightning (or a subdivision). to blame mp3 is a cheap cop-out that some of you who are just mad are using. thinka bout how much you knew about trancea few years ago. all you probably knew was pvd, tiesto and corsten. mabye if armin was releasing cds back then we would have known him too. the way i got started was buying cds, and since maxi cd isnt really available for most tracks, i would find the artists from teh cd i like and search for more songs by them on napster. i think the electronic music industry is sort of catching on to the cd maxi idea, because look at the usa music scene. not that i like rap or rock or pop, but they release cd singles and shit. but i guess its diffrent with trance, personally i like to have the full single of a song rather than a mixed version. i think had there been equal amounts of cdm and vinyls being put out for songs, it could have increased sales, because i know a lot of people around here would like to support the artists but have no turntables. every one has got to have a cd player in there home or a cd drive on their computer these days. if you only have a floppy, i dont know how you could put windows or whatever os you use on the computer. cd maxi is good too, because it can be preserved better than vinyls, because one scratch in the vinyl, its fucked, there is no vinyl doctor, but there ways to remove scratches off of cds. and whoever says cdjing isnt real djing. lots ofpeople who dont even know how to dj say this shit, and it pisses me off, because djing with cds is the same as vinyls, basically. anyways, i think mp3 has helped vinyl sales, but it fucked the cd sales over. it is sad that lightning records closed, but its not the end of the world. a lot of the good artists from lightning can get a contract at any record label they please i am sure. so we just have to wait and see what happens

Good quote! 100% agree!

DAMN!

Bonzai was my favorite. Canada will miss them much.

What happens to the song rights? Who do they revert to? Normally assets are given to creditors - who are the creditors? What are the bankruptcy rules in Belgium?

just read the news, very sad indeed. and everything looked so bright for them, great deal of succes abroad, a whole lot of promising artists signed and releases planned.. what a shock!

about mp3 having had an influence on the bankrupcy, i think in a small way, because trance is still fairly underground. it is music made for the club scene, not for the big masses. that's why their revenues mainly come from vinyl sales. mp3 made it possible for a small part of those masses to get to know trance music, and to spread the name of some labels and artists, which is why, also lightning records, they are fairly well-known today. accordingly, more people have downloaded music they released. but i don't think it harmed them in any way, because these people simply don't buy vinyls, not before, not afterwards, they are just exploring the music that is out there. in other words, lables didn't earn money via them, and they won't in the future either. and even if some of them are dj's, they will certainly buy the vinyl afterwards. so i don't think they've lost lots of money there.
the problem is in my opinion the compilation cd's and albums. even though trance is not aimed for the masses, they still release cd's for the 'few' people that are interested, that like trance, and do not dj. as somebody already pointed out in this thread, these people, and everyone on this planet i imagine, want new stuff. and that's exactely where a lot of companies fail, they do not innovate enough. also in the music industry. they are too busy looking for ways to stop the download of mp3 that they do not update their product. i think that people would by a lot more cd's if they were accompanied by some extra's, like a dvd of a liveset, pictures of the producer working in the studio, etc. the notion "cd" does not evoke any feelings anymore..
in my opinion, that's where lightning records, and about every other record company, (have) fail(ed). but i don't think that's why lightning went bankrupt, as the majority of their revenues come from vinyl, which is doing well at the moment.

Indeed, saying mp3s are the cause is just an excuse of a reason. Let me break it down for you. Its known for a fact that almost all trance is released on vinyl. And DJ's spin vinyl. Knowing that, we can conclude if you buy vinyl then you must be a DJ...

So how do select DJ's know whats good to buy? Ah here we go, they download mp3s! Do people who download mp3s stop buying vinyl? Well lets see, do DJ's buy vinyl just to listen to them in their room? No, they buy them so they can spin with them. That means select DJ's will persist in buying vinyls even after hearing the mp3...

Now we can conclude that (1) if someone buys vinyl in the first place, he will definately buy it after hearing the mp3 of it if its good, and (2) if someone doesnt buy vinyl in the first place, and hears the mp3, he will still not buy it. Moreover, (3) if someone who doesnt buy vinyl in the first place, hears the mp3 and is inspired, will begin to collect vinyls and start to DJ.

In other words, mp3s are a win-win situation for downloaders and labels. Its free promotion. If you read (1), (2), and (3) you'll see that theres no possible way a label can lose money.

Taken from M.I.K.E.'s Official Site

You proberly heared that "Lightning-records" is closed.
It was my home for many years,and with lots of pain and sorrow it's an end of an era.
As we all know Lightning suffered from low CD sales,getting attacked by MP3 downloading,and sales droping all over.
It's a sad day and a loss of a monumentary...
but every END is a new START...
And hopefully also for the Lightning crew.
As i was part of that crew,i will go my own way.
But one thing is for sure...
M.I.K.E. will be back,and more than ever!!!
First of all getting up and running SCANNER records
the next couple of weeks.
But there is more good news on the way...
Be ready for the new PUSH,PLASTIC BOY,M.I.K.E.soon.
The only thing i can say is thanks for the support for many many years.
Let's go for a better future and music will guide your way...
R.E.S.P.E.C.T. Mike

Now that makes me feel better

quote:

Originally posted by Dumonde Trancer this is a sad day, i am still finding it hard to comprehend how one of the biggest and most diverse trance labels in the world, if not THE biggest & most diverse, has managed to get to such a situation it has to close down.

Agreed. How can it have gone bankrupt with such artists as L-vee (etc) and Push (etc) signed to it?????

If you see a DJ's collection there is always some lightning/bonzai etc in there, as there is in most bedroom DJ's collections also.

WTF??????

quote:

Originally posted by djjesp Taken from M.I.K.E.'s Official Site ... Now that makes me feel better

Refer to my 2nd post on page 3 yesterday.. already posted

top label, i hate to see it go

I think we should take a look detailed on Lightning!

Lightning was always releasing quality material! Thats a fact, Quality is good, but quality is only for the scene! The mass people listen to commercial dance music from ATC to Scooter! Thats also a fact!

So Lightning was never having big deals, mega hits or what ever, they stay with their quality!

But the last years the vinyl and compilations selling gone back, this had different reasons (Economy, people have higher costs, other things). This was hitting the complete music business.

Lightning stayed with there quality stuff, other labels run commercial, release cover version ...

But okay for Lightning it was still enough to run. And as bad as to say it, I think really that mp3 is giving Lightning the final kick down!

For sure mp3 made the artists more known in other countries all over the world, but it is a fact that people also stop buying compilations and vinyls when they can download the songs! Sure a DJ still wanna have a vinyl, but also lots of bedroom DJs who were buying vinyls think now twice befor bying it (new vinyls or paying my mobil phone bill)

And why buying a compilation when I have already all songs on mp3 especially when I just like 50% of the songs on this compilation! Think it is a good reason, there the music industry has to find the answer for!

But finally what I wanna say is that especially the "small" independent labels like Lightning had their marked on Vinyl and Compilations, both selling went back (Different reasons) and when then songs got 1000 times more downloaded then bought the mp3s are not innocent with the bankruptcy of Lightning!!!

quote:

So Lightning was never having big deals, mega hits or what ever, they stay with their quality!

They had Push and Airwave...

quote:

Originally posted by Cream21 Lightning was always releasing quality material! Thats a fact, Quality is good, but quality is only for the scene! The mass people listen to commercial dance music from ATC to Scooter! Thats also a fact! So Lightning was never having big deals, mega hits or what ever, they stay with their quality! But the last years the vinyl and compilations selling gone back, this had different reasons (Economy, people have higher costs, other things). This was hitting the complete music business. But okay for Lightning it was still enough to run. And as bad as to say it, I think really that mp3 is giving Lightning the final kick down! For sure mp3 made the artists more known in other countries all over the world, but it is a fact that people also stop buying compilations and vinyls when they can download the songs! Sure a DJ still wanna have a vinyl, but also lots of bedroom DJs who were buying vinyls think now twice befor bying it (new vinyls or paying my mobil phone bill) And why buying a compilation when I have already all songs on mp3 especially when I just like 50% of the songs on this compilation! Think it is a good reason, there the music industry has to find the answer for! But finally what I wanna say is that especially the "small" independent labels like Lightning had their marked on Vinyl and Compilations, both selling went back (Different reasons) and when then songs got 1000 times more downloaded then bought the mp3s are not innocent with the bankruptcy of Lightning!!!

read my earlier post, but anyways, they had lots of quality material, but as any other label, they also had not so good stuff, well at least not to my liking. they had so many artists, when they release, its impossible to sell for everyone, and as said before, when you release too much stuff and have too many different sublabels, nto everyone catches on, and it fucks you over in the end, surely they were very big, but that hurt them as well

what does this mean for Trance ? are we witnessing the end of a genre ?

quote:

Originally posted by S_madis what does this mean for Trance ? are we witnessing the end of a genre ?

no, dont be silly, it is just the label that went down, the artists, well all the good ones, can get signed to whatever label they want i am sure, you think any label would turn down airwave or something, it hink not, other labels probably have wanted some of the lightning artists for quite a long time

quote:

Originally posted by Cream21 Sure a DJ still wanna have a vinyl, but also lots of bedroom DJs who were buying vinyls think now twice befor bying it (new vinyls or paying my mobil phone bill) And why buying a compilation when I have already all songs on mp3 especially when I just like 50% of the songs on this compilation! Think it is a good reason, there the music industry has to find the answer for!

This struck a chord with me. As said before, most labels rely on vinyl and compilation sales. Sometimes even the odd album. How would a CDDJ get hold of the tracks he want? The EPs and whatnot's are rarely released on CD and if they are it's often after they've become a hit, thus making them less interesting for a DJ who have to face brutal competition from Vinyl DJs. Of course they could go out and buy the vinyl and then rip it and burn it onto CD. But honestly, how many CDDJs actually do this? When having the option to be on the cutting edge of releases without having to pay one dime who wants to spend all that time and money on hunting down Vinyl?

Second thing is something I've been thinking about latetly but I'm not sure it has begun to have any effect yet. It's about all those who are starting to get into DJing. We all kow that nowadays everybody and their grandmother wants to be a DJ. And this is a good thing. However, almost all people I meet that are trying to become a DJ do so with CDs. Obviously, this has the lowest entry costs once you got your mixer and CD-players so people could try out the concept and see if they like it before investing all their disposable income on vinyl. It makes sense. Now, since new releases aren't found on CD but only on mp3s, guess where the DJ is getting their stuff from. MP3s. No money for the labels or artists there. Will they gradularly move over to buying vinyl? Either to become a traditional vinyl-freak of a DJ or just to do the right thing by buying vinyl, thus show the appreciation to the producer by paying for it, and then putting them on CDs? I don't think so. Why would people want to increase their costs? And the costs increas will be fairly steep going from MP3s to vinyl.

So, what I feared was, even though the amount of people getting into DJing increases, the amount of people buying vinyl decreases. Not many people start spinning on vinyl and some of those who are spinning on vinyl switches to CDs or maybe just retire from the game. This could have an effect on record sales and thus hurting the labels/artists.

Now, I do think that this is partly the industry's fault since it doesn't give people a fair chance to spin on CDs "legally" but I'm not so sure about how many would actually buy the CDs anyways.

On a perosnal note: I'm one of those DJs that have increased my spending on records a lot because of MP3s. I get exposed to a lot of new tracks through MP3s that I eventually buy on vinyl so I'm positive MP3s have had a positive result on record sales as well

quote:

Originally posted by tommie Today, no one buys compilations, why? Well, we buy vinyls or download gems of the net.

well most complications being relesed are shite (barr a few)

and i will always buy tune tunes i like on vinyl. and iam sure alot of other people do. but i also downlaod the mp3 to see if i like the tune before hand.

anways shame to see them go

I understand their loss in sales due to compilation albums, but honestly if these were well managed businesses they would find other ways to deal with their financial status. They signed too many artists in the first place and didn't do a good job of market research before they released a lot of their songs. If they realized their CD sales were down, they should've cut back on costs of producing CDs and put the money towards promotions. Etc...

And Rakoon also made a good point. Those who never bought vinyl in the first place and are downloading mp3s are doing nothing to hurt the record companies' vinyl sales. Face it guys, some people can't afford to spend $1000+ on tables and a mixer. And you criticize these people for trying to pursue a genre they love simply because they don't have some disposable income?

And then there are those who didn't by vinyls before, but developed a vested interest in the music and, from hearing the tracks on mp3, started buying vinyls (such as myself). I wanted to start supporting the artists.

I think in the end, mp3s only helped, and it is a sad cop-out to blame their problems on them.

label smabel... plenty of labels out there.. music will keep on coming...

The point is, what really matters here is PRODUCERS/DJs & not the label.
I know that title -BONZAI- means quality but nobody need all the fucking sublables ?!
We only need the best producers & only one label
I sure that Airwave & M.I.K.E will open their own labels or together one label, that all we need

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