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quote:

Originally posted by DJ-Fuq How can time be physical? What form exactly would it take?

look. it is a matter of opinion. how about an example that my mom always used to give me: gravity.


you can't see it, you can't smell it, you can't sense it, you can't feel it. but it's still there and it works perfectly.


just because we can't prove that something exists, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


are you religious, by any chance?

quote:

Originally posted by DJ-Fuq Yeah. I believe there probably r aliens. With the unimaginable amount of stars out there, its more or less a certainty.

i was walking from class to my dorm today and i was thinking about that. i remembered that in Michael Crichton's "Sphere" (again) he mentioned some probability equation about life on other planets.


what would be necessary for intelligent life to evolve?

what is the probability of a suitable planet + suitable atmosphere + life starting + life evolving + etc. and etc. and etc.


all that comes out to an infinitesimal value...


but the universe is infinite and the amount of stars is infinite... so, IMHO, there is intelligent life out there, but it's so far away, that we'll probably never meet them.

quote:

Originally posted by whiskers look. it is a matter of opinion. how about an example that my mom always used to give me: gravity. you can't see it, you can't smell it, you can't sense it, you can't feel it. but it's still there and it works perfectly. just because we can't prove that something exists, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. are you religious, by any chance?

Lol im not some nutter or anything. Im just usually skeptical about things.
Im not saying its not possible.
U can feel gravity! Just the amount on or planet is the perfect amount for us, so we dont notice it that much all the time. How heavy does something feel when u pick it up? Thats gravity. If u were in space u wouldnt feel any weight, obviously.
And i havnt made my mind up about religion yet. Ive thought about it a LOT, but i dont really know what to believe. I cant say i believe the universe would exist if there wasnt SOMETHING out there, but who knows what that is?

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=124078


a very interesting read if you're bored.



i reread some of my posts and a couple of times went "what the fuck did i just say???"

quote:

Originally posted by DJ-Fuq Lol im not some nutter or anything. Im just usually skeptical about things. Im not saying its not possible. U can feel gravity! Just the amount on or planet is the perfect amount for us, so we dont notice it that much all the time. How heavy does something feel when u pick it up? Thats gravity. If u were in space u wouldnt feel any weight, obviously. And i havnt made my mind up about religion yet. Ive thought about it a LOT, but i dont really know what to believe. I cant say i believe the universe would exist if there wasnt SOMETHING out there, but who knows what that is?

it was bad wording, you can actually "feel" gravity, but you can also feel time in a way. but remember, we're arguing about something famous physics geinuses don't even know anything about. how abstract is time? maybe what we call time is actually something bigger that we didn't discover yet.

and the reason i asked about religion is that because of the famous argument - we can't prove that god exists, but at the same time we can't prove that he doesn't exist. Contact is a good movie in that sense, and it's just a fucking good movie in general.

quote:

Originally posted by whiskers what is the probability of a suitable planet + suitable atmosphere + life starting + life evolving + etc. and etc. and etc. all that comes out to an infinitesimal value...

You're assuming life can only evolve based on the criteria we supply. Why couldn't life evolve on Jupiter? Who's to say they would need water to survive? Do they need to be carbon based lifeforms?

There are no rules for "coming into existence", only assumptions we as humans place on life.

quote:

Originally posted by whiskers it was bad wording, you can actually "feel" gravity, but you can also feel time in a way. but remember, we're arguing about something famous physics geinuses don't even know anything about. how abstract is time? maybe what we call time is actually something bigger that we didn't discover yet.

Nobody knows. Do u think its possible (by any way) to go to a different time on earth?

quote:

and the reason i asked about religion is that because of the famous argument - we can't prove that god exists, but at the same time we can't prove that he doesn't exist. Contact is a good movie in that sense, and it's just a fucking good movie in general.

Yeah, i realised that.

quote:

Originally posted by Omegasox You're assuming life can only evolve based on the criteria we supply. Why couldn't life evolve on Jupiter? Who's to say they would need water to survive? Do they need to be carbon based lifeforms? There are no rules for "coming into existence", only assumptions we as humans place on life.

i'm not assuming that, the scientists are assuming that, and that's why it's flawed. we're taking that equation in terms of human values. we can say that there's a very small that HUMAN-like life will evolve on another planet. just like you said, only assumptions we as humans place on life.

has anyone read the novel Timeline from Michael Critchton? (also being made into a movie) If i remember correctly, there was no such thing as time travel, but the ability to travel to a universe where time was "recorded", and the way to reach that universe was to turn into energy, which u lost ur physical form and in a sense, kills u, only to use that energy to build you in the other universe

quote:

Originally posted by DJ-Fuq Nobody knows. Do u think its possible (by any way) to go to a different time on earth?

i'm sceptical about time travel too and i think it's rather sci-fi based, but again, i would like to refer to a Michael Crichton book, "Timeline," which talks about the possibility of traveling into one of the infinite parallel universes where the timeline is different. i see that as somewhat sci-fi too, and while parallel universes may exists, i'm very sceptical about the possibility of traveling between them. we'd have to consider a shitload of paradoxes linked to our human paradigm of perception (btw, i love paradoxes)

on a sidenote, michael crichton's books are very interesting and engaging, but i don't find them very stimulating, because he writes in a "hollywood" style - aka heroes who never die, and too much drama overall. but he does make valid scientifical statements which are well-researched.

quote:

Originally posted by djSlain has anyone read the novel Timeline from Michael Critchton? (also being made into a movie) If i remember correctly, there was no such thing as time travel, but the ability to travel to a universe where time was "recorded", and the way to reach that universe was to turn into energy, which u lost ur physical form and in a sense, kills u, only to use that energy to build you in the other universe

haha, you beat me to it

quote:

Originally posted by DJ-Fuq Sounds to me like the gravitys just having some strange effect on ur watch. Surely the hands would find it difficult to turn under such pressure. How does anyone know that time looks slower if ur going at the speed of light? And these worm holes. If u went outside the universe u would simply be in an inescapable vacuum. How can the universe be folded? I dont believe any of this time warping shit at all. Just sounds a bit far fetched. But it is interesting.

It doesn't have to be a mechanical watch. Anyway, it has been proven that time dilation exists in accelerated systems. An airplane was launched with an atomic clock (a very precise non-mechanical clock, just so you don't think acceleration had any effect on its dials), travelled at high speed for a while, and when it landed, the two clocks showed different time.

As soon as you get outside the atmosphere you're already in an inescapable vacuum. But the universe is folded wherever a gravitational field exists. Einstein proved it by observing a solar eclipse in early 20th century. The stars that were behind the eclipsed sun had their relative distances messed up in comparison to when they were observed without a strong gravitational field in between.

quote:

Not really. Since theres no proof of any of this it all comes down to opinion. It sounds like some people r saying u can actually do shit to make the world start acting like somebodys rewinding a tape. How can time be physical? What form exactly would it take?

Physical doesn't mean a 3d material object. Time exists, time is quantifiable, it has relations with other physical processes and is therefore a physical quantity. No insult, but you should read some elementary high school physics books.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 It doesn't have to be a mechanical watch. Anyway, it has been proven that time dilation exists in accelerated systems. An airplane was launched with an atomic clock (a very precise non-mechanical clock, just so you don't think acceleration had any effect on its dials), travelled at high speed for a while, and when it landed, the two clocks showed different time.

you forgot to mention that they had a second clock that they left on the ground that showed the exact same time before the other one was launched.

It is physically impossible to travel at the speed of light look at it this way fighter pilots wear anti g suits and the new one they have out can handle up to 9 g's on turns and acceleration durring these a pilots blood is pushed toward the lower half of his body this sudden shift in blood volume away from the brain can cause a blackout and if you hit mabey about 14 g's your gone now imagine taking off in a jet lets say you cant just right away boom light speed you would instantly die you would have to gradually get up to the speed of light and that would take a lifetime there is no way ever a human will EVER travel at the speed of light, the speed of light is 299,792,458 meters per second

Anyone seen Donnie Darko

(this is a little back there but...

ok what about E=mc^2, if it takes an infinate amount of energy to travel at the spead of light and c is constant doesnt that make M increase?

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 It doesn't have to be a mechanical watch. Anyway, it has been proven that time dilation exists in accelerated systems. An airplane was launched with an atomic clock (a very precise non-mechanical clock, just so you don't think acceleration had any effect on its dials), travelled at high speed for a while, and when it landed, the two clocks showed different time. As soon as you get outside the atmosphere you're already in an inescapable vacuum. But the universe is folded wherever a gravitational field exists. Einstein proved it by observing a solar eclipse in early 20th century. The stars that were behind the eclipsed sun had their relative distances messed up in comparison to when they were observed without a strong gravitational field in between. Physical doesn't mean a 3d material object. Time exists, time is quantifiable, it has relations with other physical processes and is therefore a physical quantity. No insult, but you should read some elementary high school physics books.

I know. I havnt read any
Still cant get my head round WHY or how time could possibly be going at different speeds. And im too tired to think about it now

it's amazing that all these people have extensive schooling in the area of time travel! who knew?

quote:

Originally posted by Bondor (this is a little back there but... ok what about E=mc^2, if it takes an infinate amount of energy to travel at the spead of light and c is constant doesnt that make M increase?

yeah your right.

mass = 1/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)

amazing isn't it even ME! i guess we're all show-offs now

quote:

Originally posted by caddyshack yeah your right. mass = 1/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2) amazing isn't it even ME! i guess we're all show-offs now

so that means along with slowing down you also gain mass

so that dude is a much younger fatty twin?

i heard this wild theory that at extremely high acceleration rates time actually goes FASTER for you, as opposed to the theory of relativity. interesting.

quote:

Originally posted by gwrmarines It is physically impossible to travel at the speed of light look at it this way fighter pilots wear anti g suits and the new one they have out can handle up to 9 g's on turns and acceleration durring these a pilots blood is pushed toward the lower half of his body this sudden shift in blood volume away from the brain can cause a blackout and if you hit mabey about 14 g's your gone now imagine taking off in a jet lets say you cant just right away boom light speed you would instantly die you would have to gradually get up to the speed of light and that would take a lifetime there is no way ever a human will EVER travel at the speed of light, the speed of light is 299,792,458 meters per second

At 1 g it would take you little less than a year to accelerate to that sort of speed. One year has 31536000 seconds, and if you were to accelerate at 1 g, your speed at the end of the year would be about 9.81*31536000, or a little more than the speed of light.

quote:

Originally posted by caddyshack it's amazing that all these people have extensive schooling in the area of time travel! who knew?

re: Time Travel ....

After spending over 2 hours reading this through this thread, I came to these conclusions:
Time travel may very likely exist, but we may never know that, not in our lifetime at least. We can prove it exists, but the dark groups of people who control this technology and ability to bend time may have strong affiliations with future world governing bodies which have already set up a future for themselves the way they want it, changed it and altered it using time travel technology with such precision that noone may ever find a trace of this (noone will even suspect they did anything). Whoever invents time travel FIRST into past/future and back-and-forth will possess the power to monopolize the outcome of the world and will not let another institution to use this technology, that is eliminating them before or after finding about their existence, and stuff like that. Thats a lot of power. This is a very dangerous technology.

Ok, now ... tell me if I am right on this or not. Lets say matter enters a black hole, which freezes time and that trapped matter will eventually exit onto a different time zone, possibly millions, billions or whatever years into the future or the past. Then the exit point would be in the same area (or on the opposite, white hole.) of the location of the black hole, the same pla ce but in the different time, lets say many billions of years before our universe had began, thus making a universe on a different time-space continuum. Or way into the future, where our universe is "lights out" by the forces of black energy ... After all, Hubble space telescope have documented a fabric in space that spewed out into our universe from apparently nowhere vast amounts of energy. Have an article about this, have to find it ...

Contact was a really great movie, one of my all-time favourites. A lot of great points, a lot of great ideas ... There are some lines in the movie used in some electronica tracks .... hehe ("But i guess i'd say it is just an awful waste of space" etc etc)

Re: re: Time Travel ....

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium There are some lines in the movie used in some electronica tracks .... hehe ("But i guess i'd say it is just an awful waste of space" etc etc)

that's like the symbol for oakey's another world CD 2 for me.... such a beautiful mix!


see, we know too little about black holes. and your theory on time travel is very valid, and that's why i'd like to believe it's impossible... it's just too sad to think that you can travel back in past and change whatever it is you want.

Re: Re: re: Re: Re: re: Re: Re: re: Re: Re: re: Re: Re: re: Re: Re: Time Travel ....

quote:

Originally posted by whiskers that's like the symbol for oakey's another world CD 2 for me.... such a beautiful mix! see, we know too little about black holes. and your theory on time travel is very valid, and that's why i'd like to believe it's impossible... it's just too sad to think that you can travel back in past and change whatever it is you want.

Hehe, you know your music well, I got that album too and I know that first track on the second CD, hehe ../.

As sad as it might sound, it is a possibility ... we humans are baaaaaaad. We tend to abuse things ...

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