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yeah you need both...it's not like creatine replaces protein in your diet. from my experience...creatine seemed to help my strength and i suppose that would translate into more muscle since you are working harder to lift a heavier weight...put you'll always need protein to help rebuild those muscles after they've been worked...

quote:

Originally posted by Remiks It's cool that u guys workout, so do I, and am pretty big...but I think you have no life and are a pussy if u start to pick at urself because u dont have a perfectly defined stomache or lose weight on purpose till the point where ur skinny and can see ur internal organs , thats not being ripped or getting jacked, thats being a freakin lady-boy...a pussy, a real guy can have somewhat of a gut, drink beer, eat all he wants still woop ass and get all the pussy he wants. Why someone would pay so much attention to detail is crazy, u must be obsessed and insecure that ur fat and no girl will like u...who does that? Girls like guys that are bigger rather than skinny from my expereience....skinny "toned" guys are panzies... Workout but stop being a wank toss... with all these scientific caloric intake diets and shit, all u need is protein, and maintain a healthy dose of carbs to feed the energy. My uncle from Poland, doesnt go on no diet, doesnt mess around with any GMC wannabe crap, all the guy does is workout and eat meat..mostly chicken and is freakin massive, he can bench 440. Thats ripped, and thats a man.

when you stop striving for perfection, you might as well be dead.

quote:

Originally posted by JayD Just curious. I hear protein is mostly for the skinny's wanting to gain weight, and creatine gives a watery muscle (eh). Which way is best to help aid in building muscle, but still allows to burn the fat you normaly would. JaY

Here is how your body burns fat:

1) the natural way: Fasting. When your body gets into a severe lack of food it burns muscle (protein) for a few days (2 for women, 3 for men) after that it switches to fat in a process called Ketosis. This is where your body metabolizes the fat and your urine will take on a ketoned/glycemic nature. You can buy these strips at pharmacy to see when its happening. You lose 1lb a day of fat after that.

2) Go on a no carb "Atkins" diet. Working out and eating the protein will make it grow muscularly, but the lack of carbs and glycogen will make it metabolize the fat to get there. What most people dont understand is that No-Carb diets are only for a 2-3 week period. After that it causes many heart, liver, and kidney problems.

So in answer. I would eat a piece of toast (when you toast bread it is easier to digest and better for you) 30 minutes before work out for some energy. Then I would focus on eating Fish (easiest most accessible source of protein in the natural world) veggies, and fruits for your energy and muscle building needs. The supplementary powders and drinks will have tons of calories but if you are looking to turn that fat into muscle you are gonna have to limit the intake. Because, you pretty much gotta have fat to grow. There is a reason body builders lose 40 lbs before shows. Its because its pure fat, and they arent really gonna get any bigger at that point. They have to accept where they are and ditch the fat.

So if you want to lean up and get muscle, yeah, its gonna be a limited caloric intake of 70% protein and then working out. If you want to focus on muscle growth dont do cardio and stick to the weights...

but if you want specific indications as to how many calories and such Id need to know weight and approx fat % right now.

ok night of day 2, ill post morning of day 3 pics tomorrow...morning hehe


Abs beginning to poke through what used to be a thin layer of fat! woot

OLD:



NEW:



you can barely see the lines as the two strips begin to emerge...


cant wait for day 8 :P

edit:: The first one is a morning pic, and second one a bloated night pic hehe

like I said the true comparison will be tomorrow morning

had 2 beers tonight, i feel so fat! brings my calories up to 1200 @@@

Thinnnererrr....

old



new

quote:

Originally posted by Remiks It's cool that u guys workout, so do I, and am pretty big...but I think you have no life and are a pussy if u start to pick at urself because u dont have a perfectly defined stomache or lose weight on purpose till the point where ur skinny and can see ur internal organs , thats not being ripped or getting jacked, thats being a freakin lady-boy...a pussy, a real guy can have somewhat of a gut, drink beer, eat all he wants still woop ass and get all the pussy he wants. Why someone would pay so much attention to detail is crazy, u must be obsessed and insecure that ur fat and no girl will like u...who does that? Girls like guys that are bigger rather than skinny from my expereience....skinny "toned" guys are panzies... Workout but stop being a wank toss... with all these scientific caloric intake diets and shit, all u need is protein, and maintain a healthy dose of carbs to feed the energy. My uncle from Poland, doesnt go on no diet, doesnt mess around with any GMC wannabe crap, all the guy does is workout and eat meat..mostly chicken and is freakin massive, he can bench 440. Thats ripped, and thats a man.

Couldn't have said it better. Supplement companies make money from these people who believe that some pill will bring out the extra definition in their biceps or shoulders, that's just ridiculous. I was in the supplement store today and I couldn't believe my eyes, half of that shit is useless and very expensive. There was this bottle of pills that said, "new and improved formula, advanced carbohydrate delivery complex". What the hell is that supposed to mean? The key is to just get off the sofa and lift some weights. And if you are lifting to get girls than you are wasting your time.

at first (highschool) I lifted cuz i thought chicks would dig it, and then I realized they actually dont like huge men at all because theyre scary or some bullshit. Im in here to feel good and have fun and get chemicals flowin. and supplement stores are ridiculous. Everyone on earth wants a magic pill :\ I usually eat whatever I want, and however much of it I want. Im just trying to get crazy thin this week or I wouldnt be obsessing haha

quote:

Originally posted by Citizen X Couldn't have said it better. Supplement companies make money from these people who believe that some pill will bring out the extra definition in their biceps or shoulders, that's just ridiculous. I was in the supplement store today and I couldn't believe my eyes, half of that shit is useless and very expensive. There was this bottle of pills that said, "new and improved formula, advanced carbohydrate delivery complex". What the hell is that supposed to mean? The key is to just get off the sofa and lift some weights. And if you are lifting to get girls than you are wasting your time.

i agree that a lot of supplements out there don't do shit...but that still doesn't mean that balancing diet to obtain results doesn't work...which is what most of the talk in this thread has revolved around...probably with the exception of the people with creatine questions...

I went into the pharmacy the other day, and these 2 fat guys where buying those mass builder, and muscle builder and super muscularis and what ever the hell you call that stuff, big huge bottles of pills, giant bottles of powder, muscle supplement bars, they forked out around $600 worth for the stuff, and the one guy says to the other one, I can't believe all this is just for one month... I just stood there and went WTF

Now these guys where fat, they needed to not eat what they where eating, and they needed an exercise program, and it looked to me like they thought those bottles of shit would exercise for them. What a waste of cash.

Now I have seen some of the workers here on the farms, These people have no cash for balanced diets, they drink every cent they get... They however have to move 40tons of feed bags weighing 40 kg each by hand from a truck to the barn, they have to dig holes, they have to move rocks, they do all the heavy labour work... People would kill to have the bodies that some of them have.

The one guy that works here on the farm where I live picks up 2 40 kg feed bags like they are nothing then he'll walk to where ever he needs to go with them before putting them down, I'm talking freaken far... thats just crazy shit.

Most people who are fat looking may actually be quite muscular. They go to the gym and get pumped and then they look defined. So they think if they just worked out harder and got bigger theyd look pumped all the time, not realizing that theyll just look fatter.

sigh...people are stupid. They are always finding a new outlet for it

I know what you mean by gym guys that look fat that just keep adding and adding weights and keep on getting more muscular and more muscular but never defined, one of those guys in the pharmacy though was not one of those, his gut was about the size of a small car.

well obviously someone like the people you are describing need to just hit a thread mill and not take a bunch of weight gainer products. the problem with most of those products is that yes...they do have more calories and a ton of carbs...but if you read the label all those carbs are from sugar...that ain't good...

but i've had similar diets where i would go through a large container of stuff like that in 7-8 days...it just depends on what you're doing....

day 1 (2) of my 12 day program, i'm way de energised since about 2pm, absolutely sick of philadelphia, and my legs have been killing me all day. the 1st and last are meant to stop in a days time, luckily. and i'm so hungry devoured a 10 euro fillet steak in under 10minutes. need rest gonna go bed and watch solaris now.

orbax, you can defo see the improvement in the abs in the 2nd pic, not really the 1st, funny how lighting conditions can totally change the look of them

quote:

Originally posted by Floorfiller well obviously someone like the people you are describing need to just hit a thread mill and not take a bunch of weight gainer products. the problem with most of those products is that yes...they do have more calories and a ton of carbs...but if you read the label all those carbs are from sugar...that ain't good...

I remember when I first started lifting (before I educated myself on diet) I would come back from the gym and drink a MegaMass 2000 shake, like right at 9:30 - 10:00 at night and then go to bed! 2000 calories right before bed! If I was out of Megamass mix, I would substitute two Whoppers with extra mayo!

Holy shit I'm surprised I didn't die from all that sugar and on the flipside from all that fat.

I really think I should get of my lazy ass, I haven't done 1 bit of exercise since the first week of dec. All I been doing is riding horses, and playing with my dog which isn't too bad cause I sprint 50m up and down the yard with him, trying to beat him from one tree to another, and I do about 500 m worth of this as fast as I can every day (I don't beat him yet though, unless he sees something more interessting than racing).

I am to lazy to start exercise though, I look at my hangboard *sigh*, I look at my running shoes *sigh* , I look at my dumbells *SIGH*, nah I'll start tommoro *sigh*

bahahah omg dude, thats disgusting!

I can kind of see why anorexics do this btw. Its kind of addictive to see your body start defining itself. And of course I have Crazy Amounts Of ENerrygygyyy right now. AMazing what not eating does for you in that department. Im definitely gonna run to the gym from now on. Man with the cold and the 3 mile run there....i get into the warm gym and my vision is frigging swimming! But then i grab some heavy ass weights and throw em around like they are nothing hehe. mauahhaahaha i love it.

quote:

Originally posted by Ygrene I remember when I first started lifting (before I educated myself on diet) I would come back from the gym and drink a MegaMass 2000 shake, like right at 9:30 - 10:00 at night and then go to bed! 2000 calories right before bed! If I was out of Megamass mix, I would substitute two Whoppers with extra mayo! Holy shit I'm surprised I didn't die from all that sugar and on the flipside from all that fat.

no i hear you man. i remember when i was young i started out with that shit too. soooo much sugar...

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax bahahah omg dude, thats disgusting! I can kind of see why anorexics do this btw. Its kind of addictive to see your body start defining itself. And of course I have Crazy Amounts Of ENerrygygyyy right now. AMazing what not eating does for you in that department. Im definitely gonna run to the gym from now on. Man with the cold and the 3 mile run there....i get into the warm gym and my vision is frigging swimming! But then i grab some heavy ass weights and throw em around like they are nothing hehe. mauahhaahaha i love it.

I used to experience that in college. I used to go lift before classes at about 5:30a and during the winter it got so cold that you pretty much had to run or you weren't going to make it. And then when you finally got there and that rush of warmth hit you...wow! It was almost euphoric!

hello there.


i just joined a gym and was looking for a few basic tips on some stuff.

like what kind of thing should i eat before a work? and how long before?

should i just drink water during it, or would energy drinks be ok?

anything i should do after it, like food wise aswell?

quote:

Originally posted by Floorfiller no i hear you man. i remember when i was young i started out with that shit too. soooo much sugar...

sure my shakes are about 1400 calories, 2 of them a day, not one bit of fat gained tastes sugary sweet, but i don't think there's actually any sugar in them

quote:

Originally posted by Michael19 hello there. i just joined a gym and was looking for a few basic tips on some stuff. like what kind of thing should i eat before a work? and how long before? should i just drink water during it, or would energy drinks be ok? anything i should do after it, like food wise aswell?

hmmm...


well i usually like to eat about an hour before i go work out. it's not a good idea to workout right after you eat because you don't want to compete with the digestion of food.

i usually just drink water...but you can do whatever you want to do...energy drinks are good too

afterwards...the important thing is to start getting some food into your system...especially protein sources. that's why lots of people like protein shakes after a workout because it's fast...

quote:

Originally posted by diego sure my shakes are about 1400 calories, 2 of them a day, not one bit of fat gained tastes sugary sweet, but i don't think there's actually any sugar in them

well...recipe?

Before I can answer that need your current height, weight, body type (fat, avg, slim) and your goal/ideal body type

quote:

Originally posted by Michael19 hello there. i just joined a gym and was looking for a few basic tips on some stuff. like what kind of thing should i eat before a work? and how long before? should i just drink water during it, or would energy drinks be ok? anything i should do after it, like food wise aswell?

1st Q: what's your goals?

2nd Q: what gym did you join, i always liked that westwood gym, freakin HUGE!

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