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-- Do you believe there is a U.S. government cover-up surrounding 9/11?
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can you doods just chill? the majority of posts on this board are just personal attacks. stop being retards and start objectively discussing the issue.

pkc, how can you call people sheep and ignorant and THEN say that all firefighters, military, demolition experts support the real story when there are many who don't? (http://www.patriotsquestion911.com)

if you're gonna act like a smartass knowitall get your facts right, and when people raise questions why don't you answer them fully?

the main issue is that there are many aspects that are hidden from the public. blackboxes? objective independent FULL investigation? testimony thats been stricken from the record?

let's say you're right, America had NO part in 9/11, why the missing facts? if America truly is the victim here, why hide anything at all? wouldn't they rather disclose everything? hiding facts only makes people curious, it's human nature.

quote:

Originally posted by culorut Anyone can vote on internet polls, it is not just limited to Americans.

even if you could substantiate that the poll isnt an american-majority vote, its still irrelevant. what popular opinion means in something like this is completely irrelevant.

quote:

Originally posted by culorut The only people claiming to know better are trolls who have not realized that these fire fighters, demolition experts, rescue workers, etc. are the ones coming out reporting that 9/11 was an inside job. Seriously your posts become more and more dumbed down, act of desperation?

theyre only "dumbed down" for people like yourself that havent, for a second, researched other hypotheses or explanations for what occured on the day. the fact you keep repeating known fallacies and poor assumptions (comparing the collapses to steel-framed buildings instead of the WTC "tube in a tube" design is a classic one you love to repeat) as "evidence" just shows your remarkable inability to understand relevant information easily obtainable if you bothered to look.

also, i have yet to see proper quotes by fire fighters or demolition experts that havent been DELIBERATELY taken out of context to further the agenda of the poor researchers that created the movement. ive seen numerous examples of cherry-picked quotes, which as any academic would know, is intellectually dishonest

.quotes out of context by CT liars

hey, what do these demolition experts (who currently hold world records for several demolition projects) and were also involved somewhat in the 9/11 clean up think?

analysis of WTC controlled demolition by world experts

i have yet to see any expert in demolitions state they think there were explosives set in any of the buildings. but i am ready to read anything you might have.

quote:

Originally posted by Haunted can you doods just chill? the majority of posts on this board are just personal attacks. stop being retards and start objectively discussing the issue. pkc, how can you call people sheep and ignorant and THEN say that all firefighters, military, demolition experts support the real story when there are many who don't? (http://www.patriotsquestion911.com)

i am not interested in the political machinations that have occured due to 9/11. the fact that the government of the day might try and hide glaring problems in their management or security etc is of no concern to me when regarding the question of whether the government planted explosives in the buildings. complicity by the bush administration isnt what im concerned with. so, if you have any testimony from structural engineers or fire fighters or demolitions experts that state they believe there were said explosives, then i am ready to read them.

quote:

Originally posted by Haunted if you're gonna act like a smartass knowitall get your facts right, and when people raise questions why don't you answer them fully?

firstly, you obviously havent read this entire thread if youre asking me that question. i have done my damndest to provide plenty of answers. the problem being that nobody ever bothers with them. secondly, what a lot of these people dont even realise is that theyre asking stupid stupid questions that nobody of sound intellect even entertains. my example of comparing WTC buildings (apples) to steel-framed mesh buildings (oranges) is a case in point. people like culorut dont even realise their arguments dont actually make any sense. i am tired of dealing with the same fallacies ive been dealing with for a very long time now.

quote:

Originally posted by Haunted the main issue is that there are many aspects that are hidden from the public. blackboxes? objective independent FULL investigation? testimony thats been stricken from the record?

well that kind of evidence (or lack of evidence) can point to many different things. i would like you to qualify why you dont think the NIST investigation was independent? considering the cross-section of american experts that were included in that report. not saying its perfect, just that to label it as less than independent shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how government departments function. blackboxes? i am unsure of what you mean. were boxes found?

quote:

Originally posted by Haunted let's say you're right, America had NO part in 9/11, why the missing facts? if America truly is the victim here, why hide anything at all? wouldn't they rather disclose everything? hiding facts only makes people curious, it's human nature.

missing facts does not equal sinister motives for starters. i prefer to limit the discussion to things like how/why the buildings came down. what evidence, if any, there is to support the accusation of bombs in the buildings, planted by the government. lets also remember that missing facts are part and parcel of chaotic environments like 9/11, it would be highly unusual if we could piece absolutely everything together into one neat package. indeed, i would probably find that more suspicious. the nature of government can lend itself to a keen sense of incompetence, and most of the so-called missing parts in the narrative can more-easily be attributed to useless government mis-management than some underlying cunning plan.

time and time again i have asked the CTers to explain to me what type of explosives were used in the demolition, or how exactly secret demo teams were able to get access to core supporting columns without being noticed, given that a demo exercise of this magnitude would take months of work. ABSOLUTELY FUNDAMENTAL questions like this are totally ignored by the CTers, and without plausible explanations the CT movement fails at the most basic of levels. into every question "sinister government plot" is injected, yet they almost always fail to answer the larger questions that these injections cause.

this is why i no longer take the movement or its rubbish theories seriously. people like culorut like to paste stuff from their fight the power websites without critically analysing the data within (yes, i have been guilty of this, but only with technical science that i do not understand). not too long ago he (i think) posted in here regarding missiles on the pentagon. ANY amount of research would have shown that there werent any missile batteries of any kind on top of the pentagon on 9/11. its bad research like this that just annoys the absolute fuck out of me and im tired of providing proper responses most of the time because they are not attended to properly. it gets quite tiring. it annoys me when people post things of almost no relevance to the topic at all, like culurot's recent BBC argument- that because the BBC reported the collapse of WTC7 before it happened its some kind of evidence of something other than a media mistake (gee, first time in history that would have happened!!). im not sure if people like him just have a lot to learn from going to school and evaluation evidence or argument, but its just ridiculous to argue commen sense to someone that sees cloaks and daggers around every turn.

i am more than happy to be convinced otherwise re 9/11, but nobody yet has provided any substantial evidence to support their outlandish claims. the 9/11 CTers are akin to the "intelligent design" advocates in the states, thinking that poking at supposed holes in evolution thus means that evolution isnt true. when the simple fact remains that the "official" story has withstood far more credible and scientific examinations than any CT theory has to date. im not saying there arent anomalies, indeed i would expect them, but the arrogance shown by these "internet super-sleuths", thinking they can assess the data better than HUNDREDS of structural engineer or demolitions experts just seems a bit ridiculous to me, sitting behind their keyboards.

Your so full of shit it isn't even funny. First you state the majority of Americans are ignorant because they voted Bush into office then state popular opinion means nothing.

This popular opinion voted in the decision on who was to become president for the last two terms, not very important my ass. If you cannot see the importance of popular opinion (which heavily favors 9/11 being a cover-up presently) your mind will never see past anything else.

You have been given tons of facts and relative links, the rest you will have to do for yourself. I tend to believe there are many that cannot be helped no matter what the cost and you are one of the prime examples.

quote:

Originally posted by culorut Your so full of shit it isn't even funny. First you state the majority of Americans are ignorant because they voted Bush into office then state popular opinion means nothing.

seriously, explaining things to you is fucking painful you halfwit. its why id be a terrible teacher. spelling things out for the less intellectually capable isnt my strong suit.

first off i stated that the people that voted in the CNN poll were (arguably) the same that voted bush into office. meaning theyre probably not very bright. continuing...

quote:

Originally posted by culorut This popular opinion voted in the decision on who was to become president for the last two terms, not very important my ass. If you cannot see the importance of popular opinion (which heavily favors 9/11 being a cover-up presently) your mind will never see past anything else.

no, what i said was whatever the popular opinion is regarding 9/11 is absolutely and completely IRRELEVANT. youre repeating a logical fallacy ad populum.

go here if youre too dumb to know what that means

i never said voting was irrelevant you absolute cretin. tell me why you seem to think the opinion of the under educated masses are a topic of importance in this discussion. dont be an idiot.

quote:

Originally posted by culorut You have been given tons of facts and relative links, the rest you will have to do for yourself. I tend to believe there are many that cannot be helped no matter what the cost and you are one of the prime examples.

no, no i havent. i have seen a bunch of bullshit masquerading as research. and ive seen a bunch of gullible teenagers lap it up coz they dont know any better. ive read most of these crazy bullshit sites that you have (probably well before you too, and with greater understanding) and i have never come across any quotes from demo or structural experts that argue there were bombs in the towers.

but, if you wish to prove (yet again) that the 911 CT movement is full of shit, hide behind your "tons of facts" without actually providing me with what i asked for. its quite a common tactic by your ilk, i remain unsurprised.

i pity your college professors (should you ever get that far) having to deal with your ill-conceived and fallacious arguments

I was correct you cannot be helped.

Something is making you burn up inside (relevant from your obnoxious posts) and its most definitely because you are being told the truth.

quote:

Originally posted by Haunted can you doods just chill? the majority of posts on this board are just personal attacks. stop being retards and start objectively discussing the issue.

If you can read through the whole thread never is there any objective reasoning or rhetoric coming from a few trolls. It's the going back and forth with them that swells the thread and gives it credence when those trolls could choose to ignore the thread.

But they don't. Don't get me started on any policing of them. I appealed a few times to no avail. But there are others that I did have disagreements with and didn't feel bothered. It's the ones with the ad hominem and character assassinations that get away with their BS.

But let's be back on topic cause they're gonna wet their panties now that Khalid Sheik Mohamed "confessed".

If tortured some more, he would confess that he is Santa Claus or that he killed OJ Simpsons' ex-wife and friend.

i don't doubt that the towers collapsed due to the planes, but what i doubt is the governments involvement.

quote:

Originally posted by Haunted i don't doubt that the towers collapsed due to the planes, but what i doubt is the governments involvement.

well thats a completely different question if you ask me.

quote:

Originally posted by ogvh5150 If you can read through the whole thread never is there any objective reasoning or rhetoric coming from a few trolls. It's the going back and forth with them that swells the thread and gives it credence when those trolls could choose to ignore the thread. But they don't. Don't get me started on any policing of them. I appealed a few times to no avail. But there are others that I did have disagreements with and didn't feel bothered. It's the ones with the ad hominem and character assassinations that get away with their BS. But let's be back on topic cause they're gonna wet their panties now that Khalid Sheik Mohamed "confessed". If tortured some more, he would confess that he is Santa Claus or that he killed OJ Simpsons' ex-wife and friend.

They tortured this guy to no end, check out what these whack jobs want us to believe.

1. 1993 WTC operation

2. 9/11 operation from A-Z

3. ...

4. Shoe bomber operation to down american airplanes

5. Filka Islands operation in Kuwait

6. Bombing nightclub in Bali

7. For planing new or second wave attacks against skyscrapers after 9/11.

Library tower
Sears towers
Plaza Bank
Empire state building

8. Planning operation to destroy American millitary vessel and oil tankers in the Straights of Hormuz, Gibraltar and Port of Singapore.

9. Planing bomb and destroy the Panama Canal.

10 Surveying and financing for the assassination of several former presedents, including carter

11 Planning bombing bridges in NY

12 I was resposible for planning to destroy Sears towers by burning a few fuel or oil tanker trucks beneath it or around it.

13 Planning, s. and f. to destroy Heathrow airport, the Canary building and Big Ben.

14 Planning to destroy many night clubs on Thailands soil

15 Resposible for surveying and financing destruction of the NY Stock Exchangeand other targets.

16 Responsible for planning destruction of building in the Israel city of Elat by using airplanes leaving from Saudi

17 Planning destruction of American embassies in Indonesia Australia and Japan

18 For surveying destruction of Israeli embassy in India, Azerbaijan, the Philippines and Australia.

19 surveying destruction of an Israeli EL AL Airplanes flight on Thailand soil

20 Several Mujahadeen into Israel

21 Bombing hotel in Mombasa

22 Launching russian made SA 7 missile on EL AL airliner departing from Mombasa

23 planning to hit American targets in South Korea

24 Planning to hit targets in Turkey

25 for surveillance to hit nuclear power plants in several US states

26 Planning to hit NATO headquarters

27 Bojinka Operation

28 for assassination attempt against Clinton during his visit in Philippines 1994

29 for (shared responible) assassination attemt against Pope john Paul the second

30 for training and financing the assassination of Pakistans President Musharaf

31 for attemt to destroy an American oil company owned by former secretary of state Henry Kissinger

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/S..._transcript.pdf

LOL! What a fucking joke.

quote:

well thats a completely different question if you ask me.

No that question still confirms that government involvement means inside job. Who gives a shit what type of bombs where used to bring down the towers, point is it was not in no way Bin Laden and the 19 hijackers bullshit fairytale.

Keeps getting better and better, no one seems to be falling for the BS anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN oh, and you havent answered my question regarding how exactly the US government is making a profit from the wars? this is what im talking about- if you make such a statement you need to back it up with something called evidence, or sometimes logic. thats what a reasoned argument consists of. otherwise youre just spurting bullshit.

Look, i wasn't going to answer your fucking question. You stupid c unt. You need to fucking realize that a war is a racket. Meant to enrichen the corporations involved in war. Defense contractors have an annual 30% profit a yr for being involved in a war. That is really profitable. and another thing pkc. please don't respond to this.

quote:

Originally posted by culorut No that question still confirms that government involvement means inside job. Who gives a shit what type of bombs where used to bring down the towers, point is it was not in no way Bin Laden and the 19 hijackers bullshit fairytale.

actually, theyre two separate arguments.

one involves complicity & perhaps aiding and abetting the terrorists, the other is concerned with actively instigating the attacks. i am only really interested in the latter, as most of the "911 truth movement" et al focus on explosives in the buildings, and similar accusations. this is where my interest was piqued.

saying that the government let the attacks happen is an entirely different discussion, and (in my opinion) a whole LOT more plausible.

im interested to know though, why has bin laden accepted responsibility for the attacks if he wasnt actually behind them?

Two separate arguments which in either way show that the government should be held responsible for their actions or lack there of. Failure on 9/11 warranted rewards and promotions to those who should be held accountable at the highest level, Cheney is at the top of this list.

Bin Laden is exactly what KSM is, a patsie. Setup to take the hit and as we have seen make the perfect enemy, they are both in bed with the CIA and following orders.

No torture needed.

Another biggie today, this one should get some definite attention from the mass media although I feel she is going to get bashed just like Charlie Sheen did.


Rosie O'Donnell comes out about 9/11,

http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2....htm&frame=true

Good for her, raise fukin hell!

Well, I see the CSes are still in full force...wow

It's not exactly a theory anymore, the majority of the populace including Rosie strongly believe otherwise and with every right.

The official story is by far the fairytale presently and it seems to be falling short with every breath.

http://www.voltairenet.org/mot37.html?lang=en

Useful informations i've found
can take the facts back.

Blatant Facts

Caught in the act: a revealing image, a stunning fact or an outstanding statement.

20 February 2007

From
Washington

quote:

Brzezinski confirms that the United States can organise attacks in their own territory With the exception of Washington Note and Financial Times, the mainstream media decided not to report Zbigniew Brzezinski�s comments that shatter the United Stator ruling class. Auditioned on February 1st, 2007 by the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, the former National Security Adviser read a statement the terms of which had been carefully chosen. He indicated that : " a plausible scenario for a military collision with Iran involves Iraqi failure to meet the benchmarks, followed by accusations of Iranian responsibility for the failure, then by some provocation in Iraq or a terrorist act in the US blamed on Iran, culminating in a �defensive� US military action against Iran that plunges a lonely America into a spreading and deepening quagmire eventually ranging across Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan". As you must have noticed: Mr Brzezinski evoked the Bush administration plausible organization of an attack in the United States, and the possibility of holding Iran wrongly responsible for it. In Washington the analysts hesitate between two interpretations of this statement. For certain officials, the former National Security Adviser tried to beat the neoconservatives to it and to cast doubt in advance on any circumstance which would lead to the war. For others, Mr Brzezinski wanted, in addition, to suggest that in case of collision with the war partisans, he could reopen the September 11th file. In any case, Thierry Meyssan�s hypothesis - According to which the September 11th attacks would have been perpetrated by a Military-Industrial Complex faction to provoke the Afghanistan and Iraq wars - Leaves suddenly the taboo domain to be discussed publicly by Washington elites.

The Source


The Yugoslav Caldron
J�rgen Els�sser: �The CIA recruited and trained the jihadists�
by Silvia Cattori*
14 August 2006


In his latest book, �How the Jihad Came to Europe�, German journalist J�rgen Els�sser unravels the Jihadist thread. Muslim fighters recruited by the CIA to fight against the Soviets in Afghanistan were used successively in Yugoslavia and Chechnya, still supported by the CIA, but perhaps sometimes out of its control. Basing himself on diverse sources, mainly Yugoslavian, Dutch, and German, he reconstructed the development of Osama bin Laden and his lieutenants at the side of NATO in Bosnia-Herzegovinia.




The Source

quote:

The Pentagon magic plane, part 2 by Pierre-Henri Bunel* 19 May 2006 From Paris (France) Videos released on may, 16th 2006 by the United States Department of Defense At the request of the neo-conservative association Judicial Watch, the US Department of Defence released the full version of the September 11th, 2001 attacks on Pentagon. The neo-conservative press is delighted at this broadcasting, which supposedly contradicts conclusively our analyses. In fact, the video does not contain any additional element in comparison with the images already broadcast in 2002, and where it is still impossible to see a Boeing 757-200. This sequence confirms, on the contrary, the analysis of the former artillery officer Pierre - Henri Bunel published by Thierry Meyssan in his book Pentagate, and that we reprint here today. The Effects Of A Hollow Charge, 4th chapter of book Pentagate What is the nature of the explosion that took place at the Pentagon on 11 September 2001? An an�alysis of the video pictures of the impact and the photographs of the damages permits one to know by what type of device the attack was caused. Did the explosion correspond with that produced by an airplane�s kerosene or that of a real explosive? Did the fire correspond with a hydrocarbon fire or with a classic blaze? Deflagration or detonation? As a preamble, it seems indispensable to make clear to the reader an essential distinction: the difference between a deflagration and a detonation. The combustion of explosive chemical materials - powders, explosives or hydrocarbons, for example - release energy by producing a shock wave. The diffusion at high speeds of the enormous quantity of gas produced by the chemical reaction is accompanied by flame, by a noise caused by the displacement of the shockwave through the air, and by smoke. One also often observes, even before seeing the flame, a cloud of vapor due to the compression of the air surrounding the zone of the explosion. The air can�t be set into motion immediately, so it compresses under the influence of the shockwave. At first, under the compression of the air molecules, the invisible water vapor that the atmosphere always contains in greater or lesser quantities compresses and becomes visible as a white cloud. What I would like to underline here is the notion of the shockwave. An explosion is a reaction that projects gas at a greater or lesser speeds. Explosive materials, according to their chemical composition and the physical arrangement of their molecules, impart upon the gases they generate a greater or lesser speed of propagation. One says that they are more or less progressive. The observation of the shockwave is thus a precious indication of the speed of the gases projected by the explosion. Explosive materials are divided into two groups, according to their progressiveness. Explosives produce a shockwave whose speed of propagation is superior to a value of about six thousand feet per second. One says that they "detonate". Explosive materials whose shockwave speed is lower than that do not detonate. They deflagrate. This is the case, for example, of gunpowder or hydrocarbons. In an internal combustion engine - and the turbojet of a Boeing 757 is a continuous internal combustion engine - the fuel under pressure deflagrates and does not detonate. If it detonated, the engine�s structure would not withstand it. The kerosene of an airliner that crashes ignites and does not generally produce even deflagration, except in certain circumstances and at points limited to the engines. In the recent case of the Airbus that fell on a Queens neighborhood in New York in November 2001, the engines did not explode upon arriving at the ground. Kerosene is a heavy oil analogous to diesel fuel, tri-filtrated in order to satisfy the physical conditions of passage through the fuel injectors of jet engines. It is in no sense an explosive. The color of explosions as also fairly remarkable. In detonations, the shockwave displaces itself rapidly. If the explosion occurs in the air without obstacles, the flame is often pale yellow at the point of the explosion. As it moves away from ground zero it turns orange then red. When it encounters obstacles, such as the walls of a building, one practically doesn�t see the pale yellow part. The duration of illumination by this color is brief. The form of the flame gives an impression of "rigidity" because of the speed of propagation. It is only when the dust lifted by the shockwave starts to bum due to the brutal rise in temperature that smoke appears. This is fire smoke that has little resemblance to the black, heavy coils given off by hydrocarbon fires. But solid explosives are not simply chemical combinations. One can improve their effectiveness by playing with their physical forms. In principle, the shockwave propagates perpendicularly to the surface undergoing reaction. By working the shapes of the explosive charges one can orient the shockwave in such a fashion as to send a maximum of energy in a given direction, like directing the light of a lighthouse with a reflector. We thus find spherical charges whose shockwaves go in all directions; cylindrical charges like those that equip shrapnel shells, those weapons that burst into minuscule pieces of steel the size of a tab of chocolate and spray the battlefield; t1at charges, that allow making holes in plane obstacles with a minimum of energy lost in useless directions; but also hollow charges. These latter concentrate the principal shockwave in the shape of a high-temperature jet bearing a quantity of energy capable of piercing armor made of steel, composites or concrete.

Read the rest:
The Source

quote:

Statement by Thierry Meyssan� New DoD�s Videos confirm clearly that no Boeing hit the Pentagon on 9/11 � 19 May 2006 From Paris (France) On May 16th, 2006, the US Department of Defence released two videos recorded by security cameras and supposed to prove that a plane crashed on the Pentagon on September 11th, 2001. The passing on of these documents - that were already broadcast in static images shape on March 8th, 2002 - to the media took place about five years after the September 11th events. In a statement made in Paris, Thierry Meyssan considers this measure as an attempt to forestall the controversy about the attacks, which swells nowadays in the United States. The �The Big Lie� and �Pentagate� author is very glad about the broadcasting of these videos and invites each one of us to notice for ourself that no sign of a Boeing 757-200 can be seen on the images.Statement by Thierry Meyssan � Several opinion polls show that today more than half of New Yorkers, more than a third of the German population and more than four Arabs and Latin-American out of five reject the � world islamic conspiracy � theory and believe the government of the United States is involved, at least passively, in the organization of the September 11th, 2001 attacks. This point of view needs to spread. In November 2005, the Voltaire Network organized an international conference, Axis for Peace, widely broadcast by independent television channels in Latin America, the Arab world and the Russian-speaking world. Many personalities attending it denounced the direct responsibility of U.S. power in the organization of the attacks. In the United States, billionaire activist Jimmy Walter handed out 200.000 DVDs debunking the official story and several hundred websites were devoted to the subject. Besides, he offered - in vain � 1 million dollars to anybody who would scientifically explain the World Trade Center collapse. And the latest developments: in the last days, Iranian president Ahmadinejad has expressed his skepticism in an open letter to president Bush while the Venezuelan parliament is about to open an investigative commission on the events. It is in such a context, the United States� Department of Defense has released the complete footage of the video recorded by the Pentagon�s parking lot security cameras. This footage does not bring any new evidence compared to the previously published frames that were extracted from it. Everyone can see for himself that no Boeing 757-200 crashed on the Pentagon. As I explained in The Pentagate, and is confirmed by this video, the attack was perpetrated using a very small size, single-engine aircraft. It didn�t crash onto the building, but punched a hole through it and provoked a short and violent explosion. All those elements point towards a missile and absolutely not a commercial airliner. It is everyone�s duty to shed the light on those attacks in which name many constitutional rights were suspended by the Patriot Act, an anti-democratic regime was established, and the conquest of the Middle-East oil fields was launched.�

The Source

http://www.pentagate.info/

a plane definitely didnt hit the pentagon!

yeah! go get 'em super sleuth!!

I find it rather amusing how often you post in this thread PKC . I seriously cracked up today when I saw it bumped up by your post lol. It's just gotton so predictable. Now that's what I call obsession .

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I find it rather amusing how often you post in this thread PKC . I seriously cracked up today when I saw it bumped up by your post lol. It's just gotton so predictable. Now that's what I call obsession .

i didnt bump it, crazy mofo m.johan (who should stick to beating his women or something) did.

yeah, maybe im a little obsessed, but we all have our favourite topics (or anti-favourites)

A whistleblower in the Silverstein group released blueprints of the WTC.

All we need is any real life demo experts to come forward on how THEY would demolish the WTC based on what's available.

Kind of like the OJ: If I Killed My Wife This is How I Would Do It scenario.

quote:

Originally posted by ogvh5150 All we need is any real life demo experts to come forward on how THEY would demolish the WTC based on what's available. Kind of like the OJ: If I Killed My Wife This is How I Would Do It scenario.

this is the cloest thing you'll find.

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