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i like to score (OR: one problem with cultural conservatisms)
(by Moby)
to put it simply, and it's not a problem that only conservatives have, conservatives very often confuse (or conflate) ethics and aesthetics. when gertude himmelfarb lambasts our (as she perceives it) "amoral," "sexually deviant" and "polymophously perverse" culture she is primarily responding to something that she finds culturally foreign and aesthetically threatening.
i agree with her that values are oftentimes a good thing, but only when they are born of an ethical and pragmatic perspective, not an aesthetic one.
the conservtatives want a seemingly neat and compartmentalized society wherein stable appearances are maintained an archaic cultural archetypes are adhered to religiously. i grew up in a world of rigid cultural archetypes. i grew up with white businessmen going to office buildings while their wives stayed at home and their kids went to school, or, more accurately, i grew up with alcoholic, adulterous businessmen who lived culturally insular lives while their wives took sedatives and smoked cigarettes and vented their frustrations on their kids, and these same kids took reams of drugs, got abortions, drove drunk, and victimized the weaklings. i grew up in what most conservatives would consider a utopia; lots of money, prestige, cultural cohesion, and good conservative values.
but their values were in fact aesthetics, and maintaining these aesthetics ruled and ruined their lives. almost everyone in this suburban bourgeoisie system hated their lives, but because they have brought up to worship these aesthetic myths they felt that to question them was an admission of personal failure.
what are these myths? they're old an platitudinal but i'll trot them out again: that money makes you happy, that society is right, that poverty is bad, that maintaining convention in every aspect of your life is the ultimate good, that aberrance from these ideas is sin, etc.
I'm not going to say that the polar opposites of these clich�s is true, that would be one of the failings of the radical left. i believe that for the most part these criteria are irrelevant. money can make life easier, but it can also make life miserable. poverty can be bad, but it can also be fine. convention has some good points and some bad points. what it all comes down to is a flexibility that should allow for the well being of the individual without compromising the rights of other individuals.
when conservatives trot out their litany of evils--homosexuality, single parent families, multiculturalism, etc, i'm always left asking "why?" if people are happy being gay then what's wrong with that? it may be a lifestyle that's aesthetically different from what we've been fraught up with, but so what? and single parent families? better a loving single parent family than a "conventional" family wherein the parents hate each other and the father is a demagogue.
one reason that we have such a wide variety of alternative lifestyles is that the conventional lifestyles that the conservatives champion are often quite flawed and restrictive.
restrictive mores can be terrific when applied to peoples' violent impulses, but restrictiveness is terribly unhealthy when it's used to get people to conform to arbitrary social archetypes. this restrictiveness can make people feel inadequate and inferior and it needs to be done away with.
if someone's gay, let them be gay. if your son wants to marry a black woman (or white or yellow or jew or muslim) then let them. we need to love each other and support each other even if we choose to live in alternative but harmless ways. obviously if your son is a rapist of a wifebeater or a child molester then you need to question your support of his actions & values.
i'm not championing a retreat from responsibility. i believe that personal and social well being is built upon a foundation of hard work, loyalty, honesty, diligence, respect, tolerance, and other good "values." but it doesn't matter what the cultural manifestation of the values looks like. it can be straight or gay or male of female or white or black or anything so long as it's respectful of other and makes the practitioner feel well.
so my advice to cultural conservatives (and others) would be to cultivate an approach to values that's based on principles rather than aesthetics. i would also say that any pronouncements on the values of others, especially pronouncements veering into the pre-scriptive realm, need to be cautious, pragmatic, logical, and not just the typical hateful and reactionary vacuities that we've grown so accustomed to.
here we are, saddled with 4 1/2 billions years of biological legacy, essentially designed to live short, aggressive and violent lives on the plains of the serengeti, but yet forced to be good, contemporary citizens. life is hard for everybody. we're all trying to eke out an existence in unbelievable confusing circumstances.
given our biological inheritance i think that we need to be more tolerant of ourselves and more tolerant and compassionate in our dealings with others. the standards that we have for human behavior are at times noble, but at times quite absurd. we're genetically designed to be lustful, aggressive, gregarious, productive creatures, and it can be a good thing to hold ourselves to high community standards of behavior, but we need to deal with ourselves as who and what we are, not just what we think we're supposed to be. the last thing in the world that we need to do is judge and condemn each other. i can understand locking someone up if they're violent, but i can't understand judging that person without compassion and tolerance. if you have a five year old child that likes to kick cats you don't abuse him and lock him in the basement and tell him what a horrible person he is. obviously you talk to the child and try to get him to figure out why kicking cats is not such a great thing to do. and you recognize that he's kicking cats not because he hates cats, but because he's expressing something that he feels and can't otherwise express. abuse begets abuse, compassion begets compassion. i'm not advocating a soft approach to criminal, violent, or anti-social behavior, rather i'm advocating an enlightened and realistic approach to our human-ness. locking a criminal up in a horrible place and making them feel like shit is neither a compassionate nor a culturally expedient way to deal with the situation. it's also not taking into account the fact that we're all essentially guilty of the same things. if i had been brought up in a different environment that was abusive and only reinforced violence and aggression i'm sure that i would have turned out differently. so how can i condemn someone and judge someone who was raised differently from me? i can, with justification, prevent someone from hurting someone else, but i can't comprehensively condemn them for it. we're all saddled with a violent biological and cultural legacy, it's just that some of us have the skills and upbringing to deal with it.
in most cases people just aren't aware of the effects of their actions. you can't take a creature who has spent the last couple of millions years reproducing and fighting and living a short and difficult life and them plop them in a suburb and ask them to enter data into a cpu and expect them to be well adjusted and fine. we're supposed to be out chasing and being chased, eating and being eaten. nothing in our genetic lineage has prepared us for most of what we deal with on a day to day basis. if you took a penguin from antarctica and put him in a corn field in mexico would you be surprised if he got sick and died? same thing with us humans. for the last million years we've, for the most part, lived in tight communities and led urgent and vital lives. we're not designed to be slothful and indolent suburbanites.
i'm not advocating a rejection of modern conveniences, but i am advocating an acceptance of what we've inherited and what we are as biological humans. christ took pity on us and had compassion for us, so why can't we try to have understanding and compassion for ourselves and for each other?
oooohhh Irvine Welsh! I've only read two of his books so far (brilliant stuff). I need to read more...
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Ves oooohhh Irvine Welsh! I've only read two of his books so far (brilliant stuff). I need to read more... |
which books have you read? 
Groovy baby
15 pages since i last checked, nice work!
| quote: |
| Originally posted by fieroavian yay for long informative posts! jdat you into web/graphic design? |
arrrgh for the love of god no more of those crappy pictures jdat!!!!
For the sake of all the posts here, it's probably about time to bury this thread.
One of you Aussie TA's should start a new post whoring thread and let this one bury itself in your forum. Otherwise, who knows if it'll end up getting deleted or not, as Swamper already knows about it.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by webmeister arrrgh for the love of god no more of those crappy pictures jdat!!!! |
I reckon if this topic did get deleted, it would be funny
fieroavian would cry since his total post count would go back to zero. Ive only made 10-20 posts in here or so.
and remember
You are not job
You are not how much money you have in the bank
You are not the contents of your wallet
You are not your fucking post count
| quote: |
| Originally posted by escee You are not your fucking post count |
JDAT
I'm about 15 or so pages late, but here goes
La France
On est tous solidaire face � la merde � la gal�re
Sortir la t�te de la mis�re pour que les gens nous consid�re
En tant que citoyen non en tant que chien
La France nous ronge � un point
De ne plus avoir confiance en son prochain
L�gislation con�ue pour nous descendre
Fr�re derri�re les barreaux et maintenant
Y penserais que l'on pourrait se rendre
On est pas dupe en plus on est tous chaud
Pour mission exterminer les ministres et les fachos
Car de nos jours, �a sert � rien de geuler, de parler � des murs
� croire que le seul moyen de s'faire entendre est de bruler des voitures
Un putain de syst�me haineux, cramer mais apr�s tout �a avance pas
Et je sais que �a les arrangent si on se bouffe entre nous
Soit disante d�mocratie aux yeux d'un peuple endormi
Les droits de l'homme franchement o� ils sont pass�s
Faut faire en somme que �a change et que des fr�res cessent
D'�tre chass�s en charter c'est nos fr�res qui j'art�re rapatriment
Et maintenant la haine coule dans nos art�res,
Nous faire taire franchement �a serait impossible quand on s'aper�oit
Que la plus part du temps c'est nous qu'ils prennent pour cible
La France est une garce et on s'est fait trahir
Le syst�me voil� ce qui nous pousse � les ha�r
La haine c'est ce qui rend nos propos vulgaires
On nique la France sous une tendance de musique populaire
On est d'accord et on se moque des r�pressions
On se fou de la r�publique et de la libert� d'expression
Faudrait changer les lois et pouvoir voir
Bient�t � l'�lys�e des arabes et des noirs au pouvoir
Faut que �a p�te ! tu sais que le syst�me nous marche dessus
Nous on baisse pas la t�te on est pas pr�t de s'avouer vaincus
Des fr�res b�ton tous victime de trahison,
T'fa�on si y aurait pas de balance y aurait personne en prison
La d�linquance augmente m�me les plus jeunes s'y mettent
P�ttent des bus parlent de braquage et � l'�cole ils raquettent
Des rondes de flics toujours l� pour nous pourrir la vie
Attendent de te serrer tout seul et de font voir du pays
Emeut qui explose �a commence par interpellation
Suivie de coups de batons et �a se finit par incarseration
T'fa�on on se d�merde, mec ici on survie,
Fume des substances nocives pour apeser les ennuis
La gal�re n'arrange rien au contraire elle empire les choses
Si certains prennent des doses c'est pour penser � autre chose
Les fr�res sont arm�s jusqu'aux dents, tous pr�ts � faire la guerre
Ca va du gun jusu'au fusil � pompe, pit bull et rotweiller
A quoi �a m�ne, embrouille de cit�, on se tape dessus
Mais tu te mets � chialer lorsque ton pote se fait tirer dessus
Encore un bico ou un n�gro, les babylons sont fi�rs,
Ca les arrangent ce coup l� y aura pas besoin de bavure polici�re
Fr�re je lance un appel, on est l� pour tous niquer
Leur laisser des traces et des sequelles avant de crever.
La France est une garce et on s'est fait trahir
Le syst�me voil� ce qui nous pousse � les ha�r
La haine c'est ce qui rend nos propos vulgaires
On nique la France sous une tendance de musique populaire
On est d'accord et on se moque des r�pressions
On se fou de la r�publique et de la libert� d'expression
Faudrait changer les lois et pouvoir voir
Bient�t � l'�lys�e des arabes et des noirs au pouvoir
La France aux Fran�ais, tant que j'y serais ce sera impossible
Par mesure du possible je viens cracher des faits inadmissibles
A vrai dire les zincs en perdent le sourire,
Obliger de courir certains on eu le malheur de mourir
Des homicides volontaires j'ai une pens� pour leurs m�res
Bl�ss�s par un d�c�s, bavures class�es en simple faits divers
Contr�le qui part en couilles, des potes s'font serrer par les keufs
J'ai le sa�me lorsque je jette des pav�s sur les J9
Mes potes je les aiment c'est pour �a que je les laisserais jamais b�ton
m�me si il y en a qui b�ton, tu sais on est tous des jeunes du b�ton
A pr�sent y a plus de bluffe on vient dire toute la v�rit�
Faut leur en faire baver v'la la seule chose qu'ils ont m�rit�s
Ma parole les gars si il y en a un qui se la joue v�ner
Si y veut s'la raconter j'vais lui baiser sa m�re
T'fa�on j'ai plus rien � perdre, j'aimerais les faire pendre
Non c'est pas parce qui porte un flingue qui peut penser mettre � l'amende
La v�rit� est masqu�e, � savoir ce qui s'est pass�
Le myst�re des G.A.V. un bl�me qui ne pourra �tre d�masqu�
Je d�dis ce texte � toute mes gardes � vue
Ils m'en on fait baver les encul�s mais ils ont pas tout vu.
La France est une garce et on s'est fait trahir
Le syst�me voil� ce qui nous pousse � les ha�r
La haine c'est ce qui rend nos propos vulgaires
On nique la France sous une tendance de musique populaire
On est d'accord et on se moque des r�pressions
On se fou de la r�publique et de la libert� d'expression
Faudrait changer les lois et pouvoir voir
Bient�t � l'�lys�e des arabes et des noirs au pouvoir
La France est une garce et on s'est fait trahir
Le syst�me voil� ce qui nous pousse � les ha�r
La haine c'est ce qui rend nos propos vulgaires
On nique la France sous une tendance de musique populaire
On est d'accord et on se moque des r�pressions
On se fou de la r�publique et de la libert� d'expression
Faudrait changer les lois et pouvoir voir
Bient�t � l'�lys�e des arabes et des noirs au pouvoir
2 ou 3, on re�oit c'est comme �a qu'�a sait pas
Contr�le muscl�, la vague passe et demande tes pier-pa
Si j'les ai pas, l� �a commence par insult� ta m�re, ta soeur, tes fr�res
Ca d�g�n�re et tu t'fais p�-ta
Tunisiano, la d�linquance en moi, la haine en moi
Donc s'il faut insulter leurs m�res, pour �a ayez confiance en moi
Dans la rue, r�glement de compte entre Cyril et Mamadou
La police est intervenue et a interpell� l'agresseur
Dans la rue, r�glement de compte entre Badou et Mamadou
La police a tout vu et est rest�e en tant que spectateur
Donc est-ce que les gens naissent �gaux en droit � l'endroit o� ils naissent ?
J'crois pas dans l'fond, j'travaille pour ton pays, m'bat pour ton pays
Pers�cution alors que j'fais gagner d'l'argent � ton pays
La France est une garce et on s'est fait trahir
Mon seul souhait d�sormais est de nous voir les envahir
Y a trop de faits marquants donc j'suis oblig� d'les citer
Un flic tue un homme froidement et s'trouve acquitt�
Simple banalit� ? Non, y a trop d'in�galit�s
Justice � deux vitesses, ils assassinent en toute l�galit�
Ils nous croient d�biles mais quand �a p�te dans les cit�s
Ils canalisent la r�volte pour �viter la guerre civile
H� ouais, c'est pour quelle raison qu'on casse tout et qu'on s'd�foule
C'est qu'si les larmes coulent, le sang coule
La France est une garce, La France est une garce
La France est une garce, La France est une garce
Jusqu'� Saint-Denis, on est tous solidaire
Garges Sarcelles aussi, on est tous solidaire
On n'est pas pr�t d'se taire, l�ve ton doigt en l'air, l'Etat nique sa m�re
Dans toutes les cit�s, on est tous solidaire
Quand �a part en couille, on est tous solidaire
N�gros et bougnouilles, on est tous solidaire
On n'est pas pr�t d'se taire, l�ve ton doigt en l'air, l'Etat nique sa m�re
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