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-- Tinnitus, ear plugs
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| Originally posted by muli damn! sounds like these are not the right ones for me.....  |
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| Originally posted by Huebor my $1 bunnings ones still work fine for me |
I think i'll have to pick up a pair of ear plugs after reading this thread I've had a slight tinnitis in my right ear since a crazy ear infection when I was 10, it's annoying as hell, but only noticeable when i'm laying in bed and it's very quiet (or if i put pressure on my ear drum.)
NB I went to a venue I've never been to before.
My ears a ringing after using my new plugs. My old $1 plug, my ears don't ring @ all, but the music isn't as high. That's all that needs to be said for me, really. I wan't no tinnitus vs perfect clarity (if I wanted that I wouldn't wear plugs FFS).
Going to try them again @ a new club, as well as trying them @ the same place Cam is at, but so far, 1st test says $1 are better protection for your hearing, at the cost of muffled highs.
--djway(who goes off grumbling about ringing ears again!)
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| Originally posted by Lanithium do you guys have a store? would be interested in coming down to check it out if u do |
Hi guys, I'm back again.
Here's an article on the ravesafe.org site I found.
Hearing damage real issue for ravers
"As a licensed audiologist in the USA, I was pleased to see that you included information about hearing loss from exposure to the loud music of raves, but there were some inaccuracies that need to be addressed.
First, the damage that occurs from exposure to loud music is not only permanent, it is immediate. Many ravers and clubbers will experience permanent hearing damage during the party, but may not notice it until later, often in the form of difficulty understanding speech in the presence of background noise, like in a restaurant or at a party. As time goes on, the damage can worse and problems can include difficulty even in quiet situations. Another common result of exposure to very loud music is ringing in the ears (tinnitus), which most ravers and clubbers report hearing immediately upon leaving the party. This tinnitus is a symptom of damage to the structures of the ears.
A recent study revealed that the level of sound in dance clubs in San Francisco often reached 115 dB, the same loudness level as a sandblaster and louder than a power saw. These sound levels can cause damage within seconds, not minutes or hours. It's important to note that these measurements were taken at some distance from the sound speakers, such as at the bar. The closer you are to the sound source, the louder it is - a sound that is 115 dB from 12 feet away can be 121 dB at 3 feet away! Dancing in front of the speakers is the surest way to permanently damage your hearing.
Sticking toilet paper in the ears will, at most, reduce sound levels by about 7 dB and is wholly ineffective. Of particular danger is that doing so can give ravers and clubbers a false sense of security, leading them to move closer to the speakers and therefore, to even greater damage. Earplugs designed specifically to reduce the loudness of sounds are the only safe defense from hearing loss. The cheap foam plugs you can buy at the drug store are quite effective when used properly (less that $1 US per pair). Custom-made high-fidelity earplugs that are formed specifically for an individual's own ears last for many years, are much more comfortable than foam plugs, and provide excellent protection while maintaining a clear, crisp sound quality (about $150 US per pair).
Unfortunately, you're correct in stating that commonly used ear plugs block "most of the sound" out-- the inexpensive foam earplugs over-reduce the high-frequencies, reducing the clarity of the music and making it sound muffled and "boomy." High-fidelity plugs eliminate these problems, but they are somewhat expensive. Can rolled-up tissue paper or toilet roll be considered "better than nothing?" Tissue paper provides a false sense of protection that can actually be worse than nothing because it leads party-goers to believe they can safely dance nearer the speakers, etc., thus potentially resulting in greater damage.
There is one particular compromise in terms of cost/sound quality/protection. There are hi-fidelity "stock" earplugs called "ER-20's" that retail for about $35 US per pair. These are not custom fit but they are comfortable and long-lasting. They provide about 20 decibels of attenuation-- typically adequate for most environments-- but without reducing the crispness, clarity and naturalness of the sound quality. The only potential drawback is that when they're in place, they look a bit like Frankenstein ears because there's a stem that sticks out of the ear. Then again, maybe it would start a new fashion trend among club kids. . . !
And if you think that hearing loss is only for old people, or that it can't happen to you, it's important to know that Great Britain's Royal Institute of the Deaf found that 62% of regular clubbers have symptoms of hearing loss."
Letter from Steve Benton ([email protected])
17th January 2001
Source: http://www.ravesafe.org/letters/letters_17012001.htm
I decided to finally spend some time looking into the various plugs that Etymotic are offering.
This is an important graph:
The sound level at the dance events we go to would be around 115dB.
From the graph, just a few minutes exposure each week without protection is unsafe.
An ER-20 plug would bring the level down to 95dB for your ears.
This would allow you to spend 4 hours each week. Spending more time than that each week can be damaging.
An ER-25 plug would bring the level down to 90dB for your ears.
This would allow you to spend around 11 hours each week exposed to sound at 115dB. That's almost 3 times the time "limit" for the ER-20!
Now onto these graphs:
We can see that deeply-inserted foam ear plugs offer the best protection, however there is extreme attenuation above 2KHz, which results in muffling of the sound... a bit like decreasing the treble down to 0 and leaving the bass high... which is a poor quality listening experience. Music, especially trance, is not meant to be experienced that way! I've tried it before, the music just doesn't feel the same... there's little point in going to an event if that's the way I am going to hear the music!
Shallowly-inserted ear plugs isn't any better than the ER-20, until above the 1KHz point. The uneveness then results in muffling.
The best option is therefore the ER-25. You get crisp and clear sound so that you can experience the music as close as possible to how it is meant to be experienced, and a good amount of attenuation to allow your ears to be exposed to up to 11 hours per week of sounds at 115dB. The upfront cost may seem high, however this is something you can use for many years. A nice jacket or pants could cost as much, and what do they do for you?
Wade, did you get to try your plugs out at other places?
Cam, did you get the ER-25, and could you tell us how and where you got your plugs? I'd really like to know how your plugs go, so please tell us.
Those of you who have bought plugs, please share your experiences with us.
Thanks guys.
Oh crap!! i need plugs!
quickly people, do your testing.
test test test!
recommend!
Hey guys,
Yes i got the ER-25's
they are moulded for your ears, and cost me $148.50
but they are so worth it, so comfortable
i went to PAXTON-BARRAND HEARING AIDS at wynyard in the city.
the first time she put this silicon in my ears let it set for 5 mins and i was done... that was a free consultation by the way.
so a week later i went to pick them up she showed me how to put them in etc.... they are kewl... see through and havea tiny filter in them.... and it can be removed to clean the inside of the plug (tiny hole all the way through were filter is)
i havent tried them on a club system yet... but just at home they seem great... i can still mix in them, they cut a lot of highs out but still u can talk and hear ppl.
ill let u know how they went after tomorrow.
if u wann book in for some email
Michelle Fitzpatrick
PAXTON-BARRAND HEARING AIDS
5/283 George Street
SYDNEY NSW 2000
[email protected]
Here is some information about decibels.
Every increase of 3 in the number of decibels means that the intensity of the sound is twice as great, and vice-versa.
From the graph we can also see that 5dB is equivalent to a factor of 3 in power.
You can learn more about decibels here:
http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/dB.html
I've just found this nice page showing tables of examples of sound levels and effects:
http://www.chs.ca/info/noise/levels.html
e.g. a shotgun sound is at 130dB.
Ok this question might sound stupid..
if the thing is designed to fit your ear, then if your ear size gets bigger, you have to get a brand new plug with a brand new size?
*cough
zzz
sorry im sleep typing.
Thanks for the information Cam.
Being in the music industry, its a sensible decision to be getting these custom-made higher attenuation ones.
Did you have to shop around?
Is the ER-25 the recommended "standard" amongst audiologists/heaaring aid specialists, or are there other possibly better brands and models that we haven't looked at that the specialists recommend?
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| Originally posted by Hyperdimension Thanks for the information Cam. Being in the music industry, its a sensible decision to be getting these custom-made higher attenuation ones. Did you have to shop around? Is the ER-25 the recommended "standard" amongst audiologists/heaaring aid specialists, or are there other possibly better brands and models that we haven't looked at that the specialists recommend? |
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| Originally posted by Dj_Psygnosis if the thing is designed to fit your ear, then if your ear size gets bigger, you have to get a brand new plug? |
thanks for the info cam! I think i might book myself in and not buy those records i was gonna get :P
Im keen to see how they go this weekend.
ACTUALLY i will talk to you tonight. Are you going to use them while playing tonight?
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| Originally posted by muli ACTUALLY i will talk to you tonight. Are you going to use them while playing tonight? |
booo my ears are ringing after playing last night 
Ill need to get some of these cam! Even if its just for going out, ill try my best to mix with them.
OK my first time out using the earplugs on a club system.
played at the icebox last night.
ok i put my plugs in before i walked in the door, i had about and hour and a half or so before my set, so naturally i was chatting with the crew... i found the plugs to be great for this, i could chat really easy and had no problems hearing everyone....10/10
On to the music, i could still hear the tracks really well allthough the plugs do cut out a lot of the highs so u hear a lot of low end bass, ansd can make it difficult to trainspot as quick 
but overall i could still enjoy the music. ....8/10
comfort, well they were extremely comfortable i couldnt notice i was wearing them, you get used to it straight away.....10/10
now for mixing i took them out, only because ive tried mixing with them at home and due to my headphones being really tight (the elastic pushes the phones into your ears to stop sound leaks) i found the headphones put pressure on the earplugs and pushed them into my ear making it uncomfortable... however i did not try to mix at the club with them in so for this i give it ......N/A
after my set i put the straight back in untill i left the club. my ears were not ringing after the night but i could tell just my 2hr set had effected them, especiially my right ear were my headphone constantly sits.... even with turning the booth down between tracks i still found some effects by not using the plugs.
so in a nutshell the plugs are fully sick bro! i suggest getting them. for the ppl who dont dj they are PERFECT!!! and save your hearing.... for the Dj's they are great but i think i need to try new headphones or just get used to them and use them while mixing! its a must, thats where most of the damage is done i feel.
hope this helps
Cheers
Cam
thanks for the info cam! good stuff!
How did your set go last night mate?
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| Originally posted by muli thanks for the info cam! good stuff! How did your set go last night mate? |
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| Originally posted by waXology went well, i think i took to many of my harder tunes hehe but yeah went well i thought the system is unbelievably easy to mix on. |
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| Originally posted by muli it is hey! as seedy as the icebox is i fucking love it to mix on! Did josh say he was having another one? |
Nice one Cam. I'm still keen to test them both out together before buying the other pair, but can feel I'll be getting your pair.
Last night I uses the $1 jobs @ armin. The $35 pair were allowing too much high in.
--djway
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| Originally posted by djway Nice one Cam. I'm still keen to test them both out together before buying the other pair, but can feel I'll be getting your pair. Last night I uses the $1 jobs @ armin. The $35 pair were allowing too much high in. --djway |
Cam, thanks for the update. It looks like they're working well for you, so that's money well spent.
Now here's an update of my quest for the "Holy Grail" plugs.
The $150 ones from Paxton Barrand are actually not Etymotic, but a brand called "Knowles". I asked how much it would cost if I wanted Etymotic attenuators, and the lady had to find out and call me back. She called and said it would cost $275.
I called around and managed to find some places that'll sell for cheaper. Clear Sound Hearing Services in Burwood sells them for $225.50. Hearing Life in Burwood sells them for $180. Excellence In Hearing in the city Dymocks Arcade sells them for $190, which is the one I'm getting them from.
The Etymotic attenuators are probably the best ones out there, but it's good to know that there are other lower cost ones out there in case people don't want to pay too much. Excellence In Hearing normally use GNResound Ternens attenuators in their musician plugs, and the plugs cost $120. I had to specifically request Etymotics, which at first the guy had trouble with in finding out where to get them. I had found out that Phonak is the Australian distributor of Etymotic ear plugs - a number of telephone calls confirmed this. As long as the clinic requests musician plug attenuators from Phonak, they'll be Etymotics.
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