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-- vinyls are lame.......
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quote:

Originally posted by Wicked Neo And if that is your sole purpose of posting on these forums is to make ppl mad then i will have the pleasure of banning you from these forums. Debate is good, it encourages ppl to think, but using retorts like 'vinyl is lame' is not intelligent in the least. Consider this as your first warning.

yeah sure.
that wasnt my main purpose.
i said "that is enough for me" as i see that is all i can get satisfaction from.

quote:

Originally posted by aspergian Remember all the controversy when Bob Dylan started playing electric guitar? Ridiculous in hindsight, isn't it? Well, so is this!

very, very well said.

again about the sound quality issue, in my opinion i prefer cd to vinyl cause the mid/high frequencies sound a lot more defined, especially when compared to badly pressed records or cheap needles, situations that are frequent. yes i am aware of the "broken waveform" deal and the warmer bassy feel but this is my personal preference.

quote:

again about the sound quality issue, in my opinion i prefer cd to vinyl cause the mid/high frequencies sound a lot more defined, especially when compared to badly pressed records or cheap needles, situations that are frequent. yes i am aware of the "broken waveform" deal but this is my personal preference.

well at least you formed your own opinions and didnt take it from a interview...

quote:

Originally posted by aspergian Gahhh why the negativity. I hate stuff like this, it's a petty war of words and we need to stick to what's positive. Vinyl Traitors? is scandalous hokum bunk. Stick to what's real and practical and you will find *many* valid choices. There is not just one path. That being said, different tools work for different people and vinyl has had a great run in the dance music industry and will continue to play in the field for quite some time. New technological avenues are opened up and some people are adventurous in grabbing those new goodies and fiddling with them, while other people prefer to stick to the traditional gear. Whatever works best for you -- it's stupid to impose the template of what works for you onto someone else, as music is a form of personal expressivity and a style of individual creation. Remember all the controversy when Bob Dylan started playing electric guitar? Ridiculous in hindsight, isn't it? Well, so is this! There are enough wars being fought in the real world. We don't need more hate over... black circle thingies!

Best post of this garbage thread.

As far as the OP, he/she is a troll and admitted it with their last post. Even if they aren't banned they have no credibility left in this forum and much if not all of the boards.

My advice to the OP is get a life and learn to form your own thoughts and opinions not just regugitate topics from various news sources. Also, it says mountains about your social life if you get kicks out of trolling a music discussion board.

Cant be arsed to read the entire thread so I dont know if this comment has been made yet... but what Ive seen from the new Technics DZ1200 is that they do everything and more you could ever do with vinyl

Vinyls arent lame... they're just becoming obsolete

If you're wondering why some people (including me) think vinyls sound better in some says, have a look at this.

A vinyl recorded through a 24-bit soundcard using a 30 year old pre-amplifier and $80 turntable/cartridge

A digital rip from a cd trance single.

FUCK CDS GO VINYLS . enough said

I'm being hypocritical by suggesting that this thread is pathetic and that no one should reply to this. Anyone who thinks vinyl is lame needs to have a good look at themselves. And anyway, the article doesn�t suggest that vinyl is lame, no, it tells us the advantages of the new digital age and what it holds for the DJs and music itself. How does that derogate vinyl?

Get a vinyl record and play it on a rane mixer. than listen to the same song on a cd. 10 time out of 10 you will say it sounds the same or better on vinyl. I prefer vinyl becuase on GOOd mixers you can tweak the highs and those massive builds to add dynamic effect, do this on a cd and the high feq. isnt "loud" enough. I had a denon and a pioneer mixer and the sound quality was crap compared to my new MP 44 Rane Mixer. Especially the pioneer mixer.

If you have sh!tty cartidages or worse a sh!tty mixer than no sh!t a cd will sound better. A cd already has been setup for someone to just play out. WHEN YOU ARE a DJ you need to improve the sound quality via the mixer ( you shouldnt tell when a cds playing or vinyl), obviously alot of you are not dj's or not good ones ( hehe). If the record has pops and cracks than you have dirty records and should clean them. Clean records should not produce any cracks or pops. Try listening to vinyl on a professional set up and listen to the sound. I bet 98% of the people here who claim cds are the best NEVER have a) listened a vinyl record on a pro setup. b) listen to it but did not tweak the channels c) have sh!ty DJ gear d) just bought cd decks and wants to convince himself that he/she should only buy cds in the future and not invest in wax.

Like I said before they are both are good. But limiting yourself to one medium is hazardous to your dj health.


someone mention that sasha talked about bringing in a computer to mix for him and stuff along those line. You must have read the same article I did from DJ Mag but I think you didnt read it correctly.

Sasha said that he belives that a DJ now needs to do more than beatmatch. He said " the crowd already expects a dj to come up to the booth and give them smooth transitions .etc." "I beleive that a DJ should do more and thats why I like to do live remixes while I am in the booth/" " With todays technology I envision dj's being able to create and reedit tracks live via computers etc."

Basically Sasha said that technology can help djs be more creative not lazy. Secondly I dont care what program you have , there is nothing in the market that can beatmatch a record for you. Even the best beatcounters can only count beats when only beats are represent . Set a beatcounter on when there is synth lines or other sh!t going on and you get crazy readings. Unless you want to have boring mxes and mix in and out of records and complete solid beats ( than why get a beatcounter anyways).

finally all big or small djs use technology to improve their sets, not to make mixing easier for them. They have alreadymastered the basics and now are using technology to be a step ahead of the others. No one uses beat counters or mixing software. Sasha uses his ears to mix BUT uses computers to remix live. BIG difference. Paul Van Dyk uses his ears BUT uses final scratch becuase he does alot of re-edits on songs and stores them on a computer. But guess what he obviously like the feel of vinyl becuase why would he uses final scratch than? Why not just use a cd or computer program.


Last comment....

Unless your a DJ you shouldn't comment on this at all. you need to be a real DJ not someone who sits in his room with some MP3's and a DJ computer program you downloaded from the web Like I said if you only dj on cds and never tired vinyl than you have no basis for a debate.Save your money buy good gear than tell the world the truth..which than is ..."its the music stupid... not the medium"

well, any source should sound good as is, not "tweaked", tracks come already mastered for that. i'll admit not to being close to being a dj, and having lack of experience with decent vinyl setups, but i still believe the mid-high freqs of cd are more clean and defined than vinyl.

one thing i'd like to be cleared by someone: nowadays when a track is produced by your usual semi-pro producer in his home studio, he records it to cd then sends to the label right? how in hell will the vinyl have more frequencies than cd then, if the source is a cd already?

quote:

Originally posted by paranoik0 one thing i'd like to be cleared by someone: nowadays when a track is produced by your usual semi-pro producer in his home studio, he records it to cd then sends to the label right? how in hell will the vinyl have more frequencies than cd then, if the source is a cd already?

I am confused about the same thing...

This will answer all your questions:

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/question487.htm



A MUST READ FOR ANYONE WHO WANTS TO KNOW THE TRUTH

quote:

Originally posted by davepiazza This will answer all your questions: http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/question487.htm A MUST READ FOR ANYONE WHO WANTS TO KNOW THE TRUTH

the graph on that link makes it look like cd turns all pure sine waves into pure square waves. i mean, they "forgot" to say that 44,100 samples per second is quite a lot.

the question i asked above is still unanswered, imo if it comes from a digital source (which most tracks come from nowadays) there must be no quality improving by converting to analog

quote:

Originally posted by paranoik0 one thing i'd like to be cleared by someone: nowadays when a track is produced by your usual semi-pro producer in his home studio, he records it to cd then sends to the label right? how in hell will the vinyl have more frequencies than cd then, if the source is a cd already?

Thats a good point...it wont
And even the output files from reason arent a full accurate sound... Reason compresses that by default already a bit
Only sending an original DAT to the pressing plant with the production in its original form would work. Thats not something semi-pro producers can afford tho

BTW Stop already with the vinyl-cd battles... everyone's been over it again and again

Vinyls are merely capable (keyword!) of a better sound. Putting it on a pro sound system wont let anyone hear a difference because a human cannot hear above the certain frequency the vinyl can produce
Furthermore a vinyl wont ever be dust-free... Everytime you use a needle it will lose a bit quality ofcourse.
Obviously you should NEVER tweak the channels to make it sound "better"
The point is that it should sound the way it was mastered
Hence a vinylrip shouldnt be made with tweaked chans
Ofcourse I agree you shouldnt limit yourself to only Vinyl or only CD
Thats just plain stupid... but so is making the assumption that "if the graph shows better results I am able to actually say it sounds better"

Further there is indeed no such thing as a program that can beatmatch... Thats something you still have to do the old fashioned way

you fail to understand the reading.

ALL MUSIC IS ANOLOGUE AT ITS CREATION. ITS ONLY WHEN THE SOUND IS RECORDED EITHER TO CD OR VINLY THAT THE A CHANGE IN SOUND QUALITY OCCURS.

When music is recorded to a cd a laser writes "waves" ( the waves from the music source) on the cd disc for the laser to latter read. When the laser reads the waves it than tells the cd player/computer/etc. what sound to produce. This is digital sound.


When music is recorded to a vinyl record a machine presses grooves( the waves from the music source) which are latter read by a needle. When the needle passes over the groove it vibrates and creates the music. This is anologue sound.

Anologue sound because it is produced by a needle via the grrooves has a much richer sound quality as present by the hi's and mids'. thus hi's and mid's are crisper.

becuase a needle produces the sound the sound sent to the mixer is richer thus allowing the dj to further tweak each sound channel at his discretion.

than why ever buy cds?

Cds do not have to be cleaner frequently as vinyl since dust can affect the soudn quality of vinyl.

Cd's can last forever while vinyl records when played over and over the grooves begin to get worn out and the sound quality than sounds sh!tty with time.

Its cheaper to produce cds in mass quanties than vinyl.

there are morereasons but the sound quality has been sacrificed in order to attainthese advantages.

quote:

Originally posted by davepiazza you fail to understand the reading. ALL MUSIC IS ANOLOGUE AT ITS CREATION. ITS ONLY WHEN THE SOUND IS RECORDED EITHER TO CD OR VINLY THAT THE A CHANGE IN SOUND QUALITY OCCURS.

it's not that simple. in nowadays' software studios (or wannabe-studios ) the track is firstly rendered to a digital WAV file. there goes the analogue quality

quote:

Originally posted by davepiazza you fail to understand the reading. ALL MUSIC IS ANOLOGUE AT ITS CREATION. ITS ONLY WHEN THE SOUND IS RECORDED EITHER TO CD OR VINLY THAT THE A CHANGE IN SOUND QUALITY OCCURS.

It is analogue at its creation but you forget that MOST new music is made with samples... Samples that have already been altered and thus lost quality (merely talking about EDM btw)
Unless you create every sound yourself its fully analogue. You wont ever have that luxury unless you're a bigtime performer/producer with loads of $$
But as I said before... Vinyls arent lame still, you can only do so much more with new technology than the "old-fashioned" tt's (check out Zabiela to hear what I mean )

quote:

Originally posted by paranoik0 it's not that simple. in nowadays' software studios (or wannabe-studios ) the track is firstly rendered to a digital WAV file. there goes the analogue quality

Shit, made my point before I was done typing my reply

quote:

Originally posted by davepiazza . Cd's can last forever while vinyl records when played over and over the grooves begin to get worn out and the sound quality than sounds sh!tty with time.

And how many times (cca) can I use vinyl before the grooves begin worn out?

DUDE!!

sound is a wavelength. If you were to take any music, sample , anyhting it would be a wavelength. The only differnce than is how the sound(i.e wavelength) is than produced for your ears to hear. Yes I guess when you actually makingthe track on your computer its digital ( when your listening to it on your computer) but thats not the question.

The question was about the sound created or difference between cd vs. vinyl.

teh differnce is that sound is from the wavelength in a cd is created by a laser whilst the sound from vinyl is created from a needle. Large Difference in method and asa result diffence in sound quality.

sound quality-->>> Advantage Vinyl.

Personally I prefer to carry my laptops & a mixer to dj.
Neither cd nor vinyl but; they're very much still alive and no matter how long you stay on the topic-- it comes down to personal preferance.

quote:

Originally posted by davepiazza DUDE!! sound is a wavelength. If you were to take any music, sample , anyhting it would be a wavelength. The only differnce than is how the sound(i.e wavelength) is than produced for your ears to hear. Yes I guess when you actually makingthe track on your computer its digital ( when your listening to it on your computer) but thats not the question. The question was about the sound created or difference between cd vs. vinyl. teh differnce is that sound is from the wavelength in a cd is created by a laser whilst the sound from vinyl is created from a needle. Large Difference in method and asa result diffence in sound quality. sound quality-->>> Advantage Vinyl.

i think we're on different wavelenghts

when recording to cd with a laser, you're recording 0's and 1's right? according to my experience with data cd's, it's not very common for there to be wrong information pressed, apart from ocasional errors. therefore, i get to the conclusion that, from the digital source, it gets recorded EXACTLY as it was on the WAV file, with absolute no loss of quality.

when recording to vinyl what happens is that the sound is "analoguized". it is converted from digital to analog, therefore the end result doesn't reproduce as exactly and accurately the sound as in cd. what you can argue is that this conversion makes it sound better for your ears, however this is subjective and depends on how you like it. in my opinion the convertion while giving some life to the bass, often "muddens" the mid-high frequencies, which is what i don't like, i prefer the precision of digital sound.

it is a whole different deal when the source is actually analogue (like on those DATs). there, it is obvious that cd will lose frequencies and sampling rate, virtually infinite on the source, limited by the norms of the digital medium. i believe that however the recording from analogue to analogue can add a little bit of almost un-noticeable noise or loss of quality, compared to recording from digital to digital where there is no such thing.

quote:

Originally posted by paranoik0 --cut--

Exactly!

Analog sound is definitely better than cd. It is also a lot harder to damage vinyl than cd. Granted you can scratch vinyl and it will skip if so, but most of the horrible skips I have heard at clubs have come from cd's being played. Micro did it once here in Denver. It wouldn't clear the skip either. Sound itself isn't what makes me like vinyl, but the ability to manipulate it through feel. I know they have some sick cd tables now, but they still don't have the feel of vinyl. To each his own, I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by Nite-Mer I know they have some sick cd tables now, but they still don't have the feel of vinyl. To each his own, I guess.

Check out the DZ1200... nuff said

as for the getting the song to the label issue. to get a vinyl pressed you either use a DAT tape, 8 or 16 track reel, or a cd with a RAW format UNCOMPRESSED audio file. WAV is compressed format, not as compressed as MP3 but it is still compressed.

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