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Originally posted by Orbax gay and lesbian are two distinct groups within the homosexual community

"gay homosexuality" is incorrect grammar. It would be like saying "straight heterosexual"
excerpt from dictionary.com
"Usage Note:... Many writers reserve gay for males, but the word is also used to refer to both sexes; when the intended meaning is not clear in the context, the phrase gay and lesbian may be used."

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Because dying sucks...you dont get to live anymore that was my point.

that's a very profound point but, if you reread your original post you made an analogy between dying and homosexuality as both being "wrong", that was your point. If you would like to claify that analogy go ahead.

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Originally posted by Ang ' ela_ie How can you say this? What do you know that we dont? Two men or two women can raise a child just as well as any other pair. And yes they can have children, its called adoption.

hehe, I think you know what he meant though.


FF- yep. Its a desperate attempt to get accepted on as many levels as possible. Which I can understand and lament at the same time. Theyre in a hard spot

i personally don't really agree with gay adoption simply because of the child. i don't doubt that a gay couple could effectively raise a child, but at least in today's society i think it is unfair to place a small child into that situation and subject them to the negative social attitudes.

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Originally posted by Orbax hehe, I think you know what he meant though.

No, I didnt. Besides blood, whats the difference between a family that adopts and a family that gives birth to their children? I see none.

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Originally posted by Floorfiller i personally don't really agree with gay adoption simply because of the child. i don't doubt that a gay couple could effectively raise a child, but at least in today's society i think it is unfair to place a small child into that situation and subject them to the negative social attitudes.

i agree with that. kids at school r cruel enuf..imagine sayin to everybody at school that you have two dads or two moms. and second if u r a child of a gay couple u know that they r not ur real parents and always wonder who is. just too hard for the kid.

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Originally posted by tranceaholic i agree with that. kids at school r cruel enuf..imagine sayin to everybody at school that you have two dads or two moms. and second if u r a child of a gay couple u know that they r not ur real parents and always wonder who is. just too hard for the kid.

Well then rather than just saying "Oh well" dont you think we should be proactive and teach each other to accept our differences???

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Originally posted by Ang ' ela_ie Well then rather than just saying "Oh well" dont you think we should be proactive and teach each other to accept our differences???

yes maybe we should, but i don't think that is a reality today. it should be something we work towards achieving. if it was...i wouldn't have any problem with gay adoption. Not everyone is as open-minded as us

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Originally posted by igottaknow "gay homosexuality" is incorrect grammar. It would be like saying "straight heterosexual" excerpt from dictionary.com "Usage Note:... Many writers reserve gay for males, but the word is also used to refer to both sexes; when the intended meaning is not clear in the context, the phrase gay and lesbian may be used." that's a very profound point but, if you reread your original post you made an analogy between dying and homosexuality as both being "wrong", that was your point. If you would like to claify that analogy go ahead.

mmhmm

If youve seen Kill Bill: Volume II and heard the story about the dying fish that was my point. That someone with no concept of life or death instantly knew that something was wrong when the fish stopped flapping.

I was saying that there is a "human instinct" that knows WRONGNESS. Not always exactly WHAT is wrong but that there is wrongness.

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Originally posted by Ang ' ela_ie Well then rather than just saying "Oh well" dont you think we should be proactive and teach each other to accept our differences???

try to put urself in the kid shoes..other than the trouble from the kids which could be brutal..he will learn that kids come from male and female. will check his situation and know that they r not his real parents. that is something hard to live with

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Originally posted by Floorfiller yes maybe we should, but i don't think that is a reality today. it should be something we work towards achieving. if it was...i wouldn't have any problem with gay adoption. Not everyone is as open-minded as us

I dont think youre hearing yourself. You want to make a change but you dont think its possible right now so youre saying too bad? The only reason it wouldnt be possible right now (which I dont think the case is) is if we all take on this "Its too hard" attitude. Im asking people to be proactive. Just dont preach it, act it, or else NOTHING is ever going to change.

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Originally posted by Ang ' ela_ie No, I didnt. Besides blood, whats the difference between a family that adopts and a family that gives birth to their children? I see none.

psychological impact on knowing you were abandoned and being raised by a foster family. Blood is thick and runs deep and wide. The familial unit is strong because of it. It keeps you together when most people would say fuck it and walk away. Blood is huge. it has a very large significance.

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Originally posted by Ang ' ela_ie I dont think youre hearing yourself. You want to make a change but you dont think its possible right now so youre saying too bad? The only reason it wouldnt be possible right now (which I dont think the case is) is if we all take on this "Its too hard" attitude. Im asking people to be proactive. Just dont preach it, act it, or else NOTHING is ever going to change.

how on earth do you act being a gay couple raising a kid? Or are you saying tolerance? most people dont get the opporunity to do that. It usually doesnt come up in adult conversation. Its the children that do it. And until he has kids, he cant do much.

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Originally posted by Orbax mmhmm If youve seen Kill Bill: Volume II and heard the story about the dying fish that was my point. That someone with no concept of life or death instantly knew that something was wrong when the fish stopped flapping. I was saying that there is a "human instinct" that knows WRONGNESS. Not always exactly WHAT is wrong but that there is wrongness.

I also agree that every person, no matter what culture they are born into, has an inherent "conscience" that knows right from wrong, good from evil.

Whether the person chooses to listen to their conscience is what makes a person good or bad.

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Originally posted by tranceaholic try to put urself in the kid shoes..other than the trouble from the kids which could be brutal..he will learn that kids come from male and female. will check his situation and know that they r not his real parents. that is something hard to live with

Its not hard to live with. I know because I live it every day. People dont understand adoption until they experience it. "Real" parents? Real parents are the two people that raise and nurture the child and help him/her learn and grow.

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Originally posted by Orbax psychological impact on knowing you were abandoned and being raised by a foster family. Blood is thick and runs deep and wide. The familial unit is strong because of it. It keeps you together when most people would say fuck it and walk away. Blood is huge. it has a very large significance.

No of course Im not saying that. Im saying we need to learn acceptance (not tolerance).

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Originally posted by Floorfiller yes maybe we should, but i don't think that is a reality today. it should be something we work towards achieving. if it was...i wouldn't have any problem with gay adoption. Not everyone is as open-minded as us

What's wrong with having a moral compass and ways to live by, especially ones that were embraced by the people that founded this country?

Saying we should "work" toward acheiving a society that accepts homosexuality and gay adoption is ... disturbing. What's next, legalized beastiality and kiddie porn?

The line needs to be drawn here. It should have been many years ago.

It was nice to debate with you all but my posts have to be put on hold seeing as that its my lunch time! Hahaha.

quote:

Originally posted by Ang ' ela_ie I dont think youre hearing yourself. You want to make a change but you dont think its possible right now so youre saying too bad? The only reason it wouldnt be possible right now (which I dont think the case is) is if we all take on this "Its too hard" attitude. Im asking people to be proactive. Just dont preach it, act it, or else NOTHING is ever going to change.

ok i see what you're saying. i didn't say that i wasn't supportive of the idea, i just said i don't think the social majority is. we can always attempt to push things along, but it will be at the cost of the kids...not you and me. i think in a generation, things will be a lot different then they are today and a lot of the conversative views that still dominate our society will begin to die out.

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Originally posted by Floorfiller a lot of the conversative views that still dominate our society will begin to die out.

Noooooooo

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Originally posted by Floorfiller i think in a generation, things will be a lot different then they are today and a lot of the conversative views that still dominate our society will begin to die out.

Curious - do you think this is a good thing?

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Originally posted by Seventil What's wrong with having a moral compass and ways to live by, especially ones that were embraced by the people that founded this country? Saying we should "work" toward acheiving a society that accepts homosexuality and gay adoption is ... disturbing. What's next, legalized beastiality and kiddie porn? The line needs to be drawn here. It should have been many years ago.

change is inevitable. i'm not saying lets destroy the united states and the principles that it was founded on, in actuality i'm saying lets embrace those principles by expanding their reach into subjects that were incomprehensible 200 years ago. there is nothing wrong with having a moral compass, but your moral foundation is different then my moral foundation so we must find common ground. morality is such a relative word to begin with.

you're examples of kiddie porn and beastiality are ridiculous. don't try and disprove what i'm saying by using extremes. a society shall decide whether or not something should be accepted and how it should be governed.

Im a dying breed my line will end with me, sigh. I better beat some people up or something before im out

Apparently im a block of stone with the words "fossil" engraved into it hehe.

Ite, im going to go lumberjack . with an AXE! thats how old school I am. Nothing feels better than swinging an axe. So ill be doing that for a while. Then at noonish I think im going to start getting drunk with my friend who got back at 1am last night muahahhahahaaha!

Dont talk too much crap while im gone.

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Originally posted by Seventil Curious - do you think this is a good thing?

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Originally posted by Orbax Noooooooo

hehehe i don't have anything against conservatives at all. i'm actually registered as a republican, but i don't really associated with one party over another. my stance differs on the issue.

if you've ever taken one of those online political spetrum tests, i'm literall in the dead center hehehe...i'd be the perfect politician

quote:

Originally posted by Ang ' ela_ie Its not hard to live with. I know because I live it every day. People dont understand adoption until they experience it. "Real" parents? Real parents are the two people that raise and nurture the child and help him/her learn and grow.

i agree with ur idea of real parents..nut u must admit its not easy and add to that being GAY parents..i mean lets say a kid is 4 and asks how come i dont have a mom and i have 2 dads? how the hell do u answer a 4 yr old..

quote:

Originally posted by Floorfiller change is inevitable. i'm not saying lets destroy the united states and the principles that it was founded on, in actuality i'm saying lets embrace those principles by expanding their reach into subjects that were incomprehensible 200 years ago. there is nothing wrong with having a moral compass, but your moral foundation is different then my moral foundation so we must find common ground. morality is such a relative word to begin with. you're examples of kiddie porn and beastiality are ridiculous. don't try and disprove what i'm saying by using extremes. a society shall decide whether or not something should be accepted and how it should be governed.

I think my examples work perfectly. If our society let's this go, where do you draw the line? Sure, it's not socially acceptable right now for me (being 25) to sleep with a 12 year old girl, the same way 50 years ago it wasn't socially acceptable for 2 guys to walk around holding hands and kissing in public. It's slowly becoming "acceptable" because we need to be "sensitive to different people".

I may sound way right sided here, but fuck all that. I know your morals are different than the founding fathers, but I say we owe them that much respect to them to embrace the principles the country was found on.

Just my opinion...

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