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-- Election time again
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Just to highlight a couple of points i see getting reffered to frequently...

Whilst it is true that the ruling government does not set interest rates directly and it is done by the RBA, it is does in response to current and predictable economic situation; hence our interest rates are indirectly affected by decisions made and actions taken by the ruling government.

The current interest rates in the the US are in response to the collapse suffered around the 9/11 incident to spark consumer spending. Our's are not as low because we don't need it and it would only lead to excess inflation.

What rubbish to insist that we had labour governments to thank for our current (relatively) prosperous economy. We were only going backwards. Constant budget deficits where as now we enjoy the opposite....SURPLUS!! ( personally i think we should get a little more back and a little less surplus but any win is a win). Talk to anybody who owns a small business and most shit themselves over the thought of greater union power due to labour. ( I come from a family business background and have seen it first hand)

Iraq was a mistake lets face it! In the single most intelligent comment to come out a labour party politicans mouth Kim Beazley stated that the war was not for oil nor liberation is was about the US trying to scare the middle east into complying with it's demands regarding the war on terror and i still believe this to be true.

Let's get serious though, If labour was in power you can bet your arse we would have done the same thing!! We always will because we need to appease the US. I don't agree with it nor like it but thats life.

Whilst i am typically a liberal voter this election i was hoping not to be becuase i am not happy with alot of things Johhny has said or done but ask yourself.....Would Latham really have done it differently? The simple and correct answer is no.

If labour do get in i think alot of you pushing their cause will get a rude surprise as just how mislead you have been.

I like labours education policy, i like their medicare policy, i think we need beazley as defence minister instead of that twat ruddock but i know all too well the problems of a typical labour government. Just remeber everything depends on a good economy! If we don't than we can't afford anyones policies.

Im not in the mood to write a large amount here because frankly i think most of you are thick as posts! But anyone who thinks that the economy is going to go downhill just because of a change in government needs to be taken to with a large piece of 2"x4".

People who quote all about how the economy was so bad under the last labor government, how we ran budget defeciets and all that shit - wake the fuck up.

The economy was in recession because the world economy was in recession, at that stage our economy was tied extremely closely with the world economy thus when the world economy crashed so did ours - nowadays our economy is not so closely tied to the world economy but i dont believe thats a very good thing cause just look at the foreign account deficeit - its bigger then its ever been!

The labor government ran budget deficeits in the early 90's because the way to pull an economy out of recession is to increase spending (as you would know if you'd done anything as basic as yr 10 economics! ). Spending = demand, increased demand leads to increased supply, leads to increase in economic activity. True labor over did the spending - they should have headed back towards the surplus side once the economy began to recover but they over stayed their welcome and they paid by losing the election.


Seriously most of you people need to actually look at the facts in context rather then just spitting facts and figures youve garnered off the main stream media - its pathetic....

quote:

Originally posted by batemanscott If labour do get in i think alot of you pushing their cause will get a rude surprise as just how mislead you have been.

As opposed to say Howard, with GST, $100,000 degrees, Iraq, Children overboard, the list goes on and on - bet you didnt see these coming when you people voted for him, again and again...

And another thing..
Of course you have a great surplus, you ripped the friggen funding out of education and health (both of which are stuffed beyond recognition, and will cost billions to fix - there goes the surplus right there!).. And because most states are Labour run, you just pass the blame on to them.

you mean Ray and Naomi would lie to me....


*shock horror*

quote:

Originally posted by JulesPLees you mean Ray and Naomi would lie to me.... *shock horror*

That's blasphemy jules..

haha...getting hyped for GK?

cant wait, i keep having this dream that i forgot it was on...
pretty fucked up?

quote:

Originally posted by batemanscott cant wait, i keep having this dream that i forgot it was on...

fck!! me too.. i had this dream that i woke up on sunday morning
and looking at a calendar going .. FUCK... GK was yesterday!!!

and then i proceed to mutilate myself

Equality, e fucking quality. If I hear it once more. If we should all be equal, WHY THE FUCK SHOULD I BOTHER WORKING HARD! WHY SHOULD I TRY AT SCHOOL? WHAT INCENTIVE IS THERE TO TRY AND DO WELL IN LIFE! Because those that don't try and don't work hard will be on the same level. Yeh this is real EQUALITY isn't it!
Equality is the ability of all people to have the same rights. Not to be on the same economical level. People say that EQUALITY is not being shown in the Education system. Well guess what. IT IS. Everybody in thie country can gain FREE education, it's just that some choose to go beyond the right of education to have broadened oppotunities and increased care.
And all this bullshit about Private Schools getting mroe money to build "Cricket Ovals" and shit. You people have no fucking idea! I go to a private school in west sydney, and we DON"T get money to buy those things! The government gives money for our EDUCATION, to pay teachers etc, not to make our schools look good. All that is done by Fundraisers, donations, appeals, and the hard work of people in the school to try and make it better.
Our classrooms are just like any other school. We still have many demountable buildings, old classrooms, graffitied tables, and where we learn is in fact the same as all other schools. THe school fees paid each term, go to paying teachers, and keeping the academic stuff going. (Seeing as we only get 1/4 of the funding as public schools get anway).
The peripheral shit is not paid for by the government!

Even when I went to a public primary school, we needed a new school hall . . so what did we do? We fundraised money and it took our school about 8 years to finally get it. This is why I don;t understand why other public schools can't help in the improvement of their schools either if they are complaining.

And yes the bullcrap about the government not effecting interest rates. What a load of BS.
A Weak economy leads to no-confidence in it, and higher interest rates, which in turn leads to recession. The RBA has to put up interest rates because of the piss weak economy.
SOmeone mentioned the Wall Street crash in the 20's. This is exactly it! When people started to sell shares and lose confidence, share prices went down, and it set of a chain reaction of share selling, and the market crashed. Of course interest rates must be raised, as the first casualty is the banks, and yes in the US the banks shut down.
"They took steps to keep interest rates high and discourage borrowing. So people didn�t borrow�and companies didn�t either."
Nuff Said

quote:

Originally posted by matt_a Equality, e fucking quality. If I hear it once more. If we should all be equal, WHY THE FUCK SHOULD I BOTHER WORKING HARD! WHY SHOULD I TRY AT SCHOOL? WHAT INCENTIVE IS THERE TO TRY AND DO WELL IN LIFE! Because those that don't try and don't work hard will be on the same level. Yeh this is real EQUALITY isn't it!

Nobody here is suggesting that everyone should have equality in the sense that we should all join the CPA and receive equal incomes irrespective of their incomes -- and neither is the Labor party. Suggesting otherwise is disingenuous and misleading.

quote:

Equality is the ability of all people to have the same rights.

Which is exactly what the Howard government has trampled on with their stance on the war in Iraq, Guantanamo bay and refugee issues.

quote:

Not to be on the same economical level. People say that EQUALITY is not being shown in the Education system. Well guess what. IT IS. Everybody in thie country can gain FREE education, it's just that some choose to go beyond the right of education to have broadened oppotunities and increased care.

You've lost me here. The Labor party isn't going to stop funding private schools. Personally i'd like them to, but they're not. What they are doing is taking funding from the top 100 or so private schools and redistributing it to other struggling government and non-government (private) schools. The Labor party isn't threatening the right of others to go off and obtain an education at private school, so I don't know what your problem is.

quote:

And all this bullshit about Private Schools getting mroe money to build "Cricket Ovals" and shit. You people have no fucking idea!

Many do. They already have astoundingly high levels of revenue from fees and bequests -- and it does end up doing to facilities.

quote:

I go to a private school in west sydney, and we DON"T get money to buy those things!

Then chances are that your school is actually going to get more money under Labor polcy. I don't disagree with the rest of what you said, so i'll skip that part.

quote:

Even when I went to a public primary school, we needed a new school hall . . so what did we do? We fundraised money and it took our school about 8 years to finally get it. This is why I don;t understand why other public schools can't help in the improvement of their schools either if they are complaining.

Because many simply don't have parents with the cash or the ability to get it done. There are a hell of a lot of public schools that struggle due to inadequate funding and assistance, which is why it's so infuriating to see the Coalition throw money at ultra-rich private schools that can get by fine without it. If someone wants to send their children to a private school, then fine -- that's their decision. But they shouldn't expect the government to pay for it. Private schools can generally discriminate on the basis or religion, socio-economic status, ability and so forth. If they want to do that, then fine -- they can pay for it themselves and stop running public schools into the ground by siphoning off their best students and funding that they so desperately need.

my vote goes to arctic

matt_a, the world sucks dude... howard and latham both suck.. although latham is the lesser of the two evils..

Do you people HONESTLY believe that the economy is going to be greatly affected based on who is in power???

I honestly would like to know who believes that - cause ill know to ignore the rest of your posts cause you've obviously got less brains then the cockroach i just squashed!

Let's just be grateful we all have a choice and a right to vote. Liberal or labour at least we can piss them off after a few years if we aren't happy

And Lethal even a rumour can greatly affect the economy so don't be so foolish to think that a ruling government can not... feel free to ignore my posts.

quote:

Equality, e fucking quality. If I hear it once more. If we should all be equal, WHY THE FUCK SHOULD I BOTHER WORKING HARD! WHY SHOULD I TRY AT SCHOOL? WHAT INCENTIVE IS THERE TO TRY AND DO WELL IN LIFE!

it's about equality of opportunity, not absolute equality. So that everyone, if they work hard or have some talents, have the opportunity to make something of their life. To do this they need first and foremost a good, free or affordable education.

I went to an exclusive private school and trust me, the top schools like the GPS schools do not need ANY funding for the government, every student is paying 17 grand a year in fees ffs! When there are people struggling in absolutely shit schools just because their parents cant afford to send them to a private school its ridiculous to be giving top private schools taxpayers money.

Regarding labor giving control back to the Unions, I dont think they have released their industrial relations policy yet so lets wait and see. I seriously doubt Labor will do anything to jeapordise economic growth.

quote:

Originally posted by Romp I went to an exclusive private school and trust me, the top schools like the GPS schools do not need ANY funding for the government, every student is paying 17 grand a year in fees ffs! When there are people struggling in absolutely shit schools just because their parents cant afford to send them to a private school its ridiculous to be giving top private schools taxpayers money.

Whilst i completely agree with you and labour on this one try to remember that those parents^^ are still taxpayers to, in fact probably contribute more to taxation ( through spending admittably ) ALL schools should be given the same then let them do the rest.

Not really fair to penalise people for being successful. They already pay a higher percentage of what they earn, the school their kids go to should not get more or less funding than others.

I'm a liberal voter but i'll admit they have a totally fucked education system.

quote:

Originally posted by batemanscott Whilst i completely agree with you and labour on this one try to remember that those parents^^ are still taxpayers to, in fact probably contribute more to taxation ( through spending admittably ) ALL schools should be given the same then let them do the rest. Not really fair to penalise people for being successful. They already pay a higher percentage of what they earn, the school their kids go to should not get more or less funding than others.

Private schools shouldnt receive any govt funding at all- they're a business after all. Whilst youre right when you say "They already pay a higher percentage of what they earn...Not really fair to penalise people for being successful" the flip side is that you penalise poorer children, who's parents pay taxes that subsidise elite schools that they can't afford to send their children to. I dont think thats particularly equitable.

any system that engenders a profit from education is disgusting imo.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Private schools shouldnt receive any govt funding at all- they're a business after all. Whilst youre right when you say "They already pay a higher percentage of what they earn...Not really fair to penalise people for being successful" the flip side is that you penalise poorer children, who's parents pay taxes that subsidise elite schools that they can't afford to send their children to. I dont think thats particularly equitable.

Hold on, what about the flip side of your example?
Parents who send their kids to private schools are also tax payers, why should they subsidise public education? Don't their kids have a RIGHT to be entitled to funding that their parents pay for?

When I first heard labour had a new policy to take money away from private schools (thats all I heard on a newsbreak), I thought "shit, this is gonna be a massive fuck up". Although I haven't really had the time to study it, the redistibution idea they have come up with seems like a good idea. Not every private school is a Kings or Scotch, so to divert some (I wouldn't agree with all or even a major part) funding from these schools to the poorer schools seems to be a good idea.

I went to a private school, we fundraised our arses off to get a new sports centre with pool (which had originally been planned 45 years ago, yes, it took that long to raise the funds), we fundraised our arses off to get a new library, etc. Not everything is handed to these schools on a platter by the government. My parents are not rich, many are not, they made sacrifices to send me to a good school.

quote:

Originally posted by Trance Nutter Hold on, what about the flip side of your example? Parents who send their kids to private schools are also tax payers, why should they subsidise public education? Don't their kids have a RIGHT to be entitled to funding that their parents pay for? ... I went to a private school, we fundraised our arses off to get a new sports centre with pool (which had originally been planned 45 years ago, yes, it took that long to raise the funds), we fundraised our arses off to get a new library, etc. Not everything is handed to these schools on a platter by the government. My parents are not rich, many are not, they made sacrifices to send me to a good school.

true, you make a good point, *except* that what i am highlighting is that some people dont have the luxury/choice to send their kids to private schools. those that do choose to send their children to private schools have a choice- thus they should still subsidise public education. esp since public education is a right, and private is a privilege. and no, i dont think their children have a right to those tax dollars.

if parents want access to their tax dollars, go public. if a private school exists on its own, well good for it. but we shouldnt be pouring public funding into a system that engenders a two tier (or class) education system.

and yes, you may have "fundraised" your arses off, but thats irrelevent.

Every child has a right to receive government funding for education. I strongly believe that.

My point (and someone elses who I have forgotten) about the fundraising is that the government funding does not go to facilities, if it did we would have had our pool years ago. The funding goes to education (repeat - EDUCATION).

However, remember what I said, not every private school is a Kings or a Scotch. You realise that every denominational school you see is private? Do you know what the fees at many of these schools are? In many cases they are less than $1000/year, some are very low. So you think these schools should not receive any funding? How would they survive in providing low cost education without government funding? There are many (and not just denominational) schools that are very low fee schools, and it is these (from what I can gather) that will be the big beneficiaries from the Labour policy.

i was in ESL for seven years. point taken

quote:

Originally posted by Trance Nutter My point (and someone elses who I have forgotten) about the fundraising is that the government funding does not go to facilities, if it did we would have had our pool years ago. The funding goes to education (repeat - EDUCATION). However, remember what I said, not every private school is a Kings or a Scotch. You realise that every denominational school you see is private? Do you know what the fees at many of these schools are? In many cases they are less than $1000/year, some are very low. So you think these schools should not receive any funding? How would they survive in providing low cost education without government funding? There are many (and not just denominational) schools that are very low fee schools, and it is these (from what I can gather) that will be the big beneficiaries from the Labour policy.

um yes, of course i know not all schools are kings or grammars etc. and yes i know that denominational schools are private. hehe, but i disagree with that purely on religious grounds as well, but thats another story

given that its roughly a 60/40 pub/priv divide in australia (last time i checked anywayz) i dont see why then private schools receive more funding (which they do).

and i wanna keep saying, private schools are a business. if they cant make it on their own they shouldnt be subsidised by the public. and if they dont survive, they can go the way of the dodo.

the argument that the private system takes stress off the public is bollocks.

as far as the 2 parties' plans for education, im not walking into that, coz i simply dont know the facts just yet. just gonna carry my hatred of the private system to my grave

You've been believing too many Union ads if you believe Private schools get more funding than Public schools.

Education funding is primarily the domain of the states. Its in the Constitution (or actually its not, thats why it is a state issue). The VAST majority of funding for schools comes from the states. The federal funding is a top up, and is really miniscule in comparison to state funding. To the best of my knowledge, the states DO NOT FUND PRIVATE SCHOOLS - ZERO, none whatsoever. If they do, it is incredibly small amount (there was an article in the paper a few weeks ago about it, I've forgotten the figures).
As a result, state schools get something like six or seven TIMES the amount of funding per student than private schools (I remember that one perfectly ), and on top of that they receive funding for the buildings/grounds and other things that private schools do not.

Another thing, private schools are not businesses (at least not here in SA). There are no owners, no creditors, no share holders - they are not for profit, same as a charity. Everything goes back into the school. You saying they are businesses is absolute bull shit.

No where in my posts does it say anything about private taking pressure off public - don't try to pin that on me.



ANyway, to repeat my comment, EVERY child has the right to receive government funding for education.

What ur forgetting pkcraistlin is that public schools can't possibly accommodate all those students.

As you pointed out it's about 40 ercent of australian students in private schools. Imagine the student to teacher ratios if there were no private schools because people took advantage of free education.

It's in the public schools/students interest that private schools be equally well funded so that the numbers in private schools don't flood the public system.

On another note, just looked out my bedroom window, there is fucking huge poster taking the piss out of latham on the corner or bourke and swanston in the city. I don't know who to blame for ruining my view, liberal for putting it there or latham for being such an ugly tool. What a sight to wake up to.

quote:

Originally posted by batemanscott On another note, just looked out my bedroom window, there is fucking huge poster taking the piss out of latham on the corner or bourke and swanston in the city. I don't know who to blame for ruining my view, liberal for putting it there or latham for being such an ugly tool. What a sight to wake up to.

Just don't have sex anytime before the election - imagine getting amongst it with some chick, looking out the window and seeing that ungly mutha....

I'm guessing it says "good luck".......what a fucking waste of money.

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