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quote:

Originally posted by Nite-Mer they are intangible, which being that you are closed-minded, you would not understand.

since we wouldn't understand.. please explain how you know there is something out there. since this "something" is intangible, as you say, and has never been defined, isn't it absurd to believe in its existence?

quote:

Originally posted by TOR since we wouldn't understand.. please explain how you know there is something out there. since this "something" is intangible, as you say, and has never been defined, isn't it absurd to believe in its existence?

its not about knowing but more about believeing..

quote:

Originally posted by Nite-Mer First and foremost, the biggest reasons you would not understand because they are intangible, which being that you are closed-minded, you would not understand.

The open mind is often drafty. If your reasons are "intangible" and therefore insufficient to persuade a skeptical mind, then I'm curious as to why they so easily convince you. Do you apply the same standard of evidence to every thing that anyone might try to persuade you of? If so, it seems to me that you'd be rather easily duped.

quote:

Secondly. Do you believe in the big bang? If so, it is interesting how a bunch of gases (disorder) formed solids (order). Considering that one of the laws of thermodynamics states that everything is constantly moving towards disorder. And if energy cannot be created or destroyed. Where did it come from? You tell me where the energy came from that started it all, without saying, it was just here. If it was here, something you don't understand created it or you just don't understand making your beliefs a faith too. For some reason I imagine you haven't a clue with all of your empirical evidence.

Yes, I believe in the big bang to the extent that I believe it is the best supported hypothesis for the creation of the universe as it exists. The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy in a closed system will always increase over time where entropy is defined as the the ratio of the heat energy of a system to the highest temperature object within the system (in practical applications, this is the amount of "useless" energy in a system.) If the Universe is a closed system - which is the subject of significant debate - then the entropy of that system must increase over time. It has. Although some parts of the system have become more ordered, the overall entropy of the system has increased as matter and energy have spread outwards.

If energy cannot be created or destroyed, then it can't be created or destroyed by God, either. So, either:

1. Energy can be created and/or destroyed.
or
2. Energy has been constant for all time.

The assumption that everything which exists has been created has no scientific basis.

But you're right about one thing: even my beliefs require something which could be called "faith." I cannot be absolutely logically certain of the accuracy of my perception, or of the data or observations of other human beings (e.g. scientists). Furthermore, there are aspects of reality which I can't fully understand and can only postulate hypotheses to explain.

There is, however, a significant difference between beliefs or faith which are derived from compelling and reliable indicators of truth and beliefs or faith which are derived from unreliable sources such as 2000-year-old books or intangible "feelings." You're welcome to believe whatever you want for whatever reason you want. But if you're genuinely interested in the truth behind life and the universe, I can't see how you could be satisfied with the origins of your beliefs.

quote:

Originally posted by tranceaholic its not about knowing but more about believeing..

ok, but that does not exclude the fact that one needs strong indications in order to acknowledge the existence of a supernatural entity. and i'm very curious which indications Nite-Mer is basing his beliefs on.

sex before marriage is OK with me. .

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter The open mind is often drafty. If your reasons are "intangible" and therefore insufficient to persuade a skeptical mind, then I'm curious as to why they so easily convince you. Do you apply the same standard of evidence to every thing that anyone might try to persuade you of? If so, it seems to me that you'd be rather easily duped. Yes, I believe in the big bang to the extent that I believe it is the best supported hypothesis for the creation of the universe as it exists. The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy in a closed system will always increase over time where entropy is defined as the the ratio of the heat energy of a system to the highest temperature object within the system (in practical applications, this is the amount of "useless" energy in a system.) If the Universe is a closed system - which is the subject of significant debate - then the entropy of that system must increase over time. It has. Although some parts of the system have become more ordered, the overall entropy of the system has increased as matter and energy have spread outwards. If energy cannot be created or destroyed, then it can't be created or destroyed by God, either. So, either: 1. Energy can be created and/or destroyed. or 2. Energy has been constant for all time. The assumption that everything which exists has been created has no scientific basis. But you're right about one thing: even my beliefs require something which could be called "faith." I cannot be absolutely logically certain of the accuracy of my perception, or of the data or observations of other human beings (e.g. scientists). Furthermore, there are aspects of reality which I can't fully understand and can only postulate hypotheses to explain. There is, however, a significant difference between beliefs or faith which are derived from compelling and reliable indicators of truth and beliefs or faith which are derived from unreliable sources such as 2000-year-old books or intangible "feelings." You're welcome to believe whatever you want for whatever reason you want. But if you're genuinely interested in the truth behind life and the universe, I can't see how you could be satisfied with the origins of your beliefs.

All I will say is that I understand your beliefs and respect them. However, there are still debates between Christians and Evolutionists and they continue, because there aren't really winners in the debates. It is impossible for anyone to know for sure one way or the other. You may have scientific evidence that you believe, and I may believe that God is out there. My intangible beliefs are based on abrupt changes in my life, based on my levels of commitment to God. If you aren't a Christian you can't understand that feeling and the power that comes over you. I am not asking you to change your mind. You make your own choices. But even though you can't see the wind, you can feel it. I am certain based on the things I've felt. I guarantee a lot of you will think that's stupid. I don't really care. I don't judge anyone for their beliefs and I'm not trying to judge anyone for having different beliefs. I'll leave that to others. But there are a lot of predictions in the bible that have come true, everyone acknowledges Jesus's existence and death, so the predictions about him can't be dispelled by saying it's too long ago and he might not have existed. To me there is plenty of compelling evidence, but I don't blame you for feeling differently. Another interesting thing is that Mt. Helens erupted leaving behind many thousands of sedimentary layers. If a forty day forty night flood happened proportionally larger amounts of layers could be formed in places. Like the Grand Canyon per se. If some of the stories are true maybe they do explain some of the things we see, rather than just assuming it takes one year for each layer, etc. etc. Maybe the amount of knowledge we have accumulated in the small amount of time on this earth has lead us to accept theories as truths, and maybe our whole basis for some of them aren't true. In my mind, science has a lot of gaps as well.

I studied Physical Anthropology in College and found it funny that one of the explanations for a lack in evidence of intermediary species for evolution was that some times are good for fossilization and some are not so good. What a weak explanation for a lack of data. Or pictures of a whole skeletal system of several bones (50-100) with only three that were actually found. I take that as a leap of faith.

wow- what a magnificent thread, Just when it was on the border-line of losing my interest- arbiter, nite-mer an all brought it back to life. Thanks.


OK!! now that I am all the smarter for it- can we puleeezzee have some comic relief and hear more D-I-R-T-Y........ stuff.













purdy please...

There are still debates between dogs and cats and they will continue, because there aren't really winners in the debates. It is impossible for anyone to know for sure one way or the other. You may have science fiction novels that you believe, and I may believe that aliens are out there. My intangible beliefs are based on abrupt changes in my life, based on my levels of commitment to aliens. If you aren't an alien then you can't understand that feeling and the power that comes over you. I am not asking you to change your simple human mind. You make your own human choices. But even though you can't see the 'force', you can feel it. I am certain based on the things I've felt. I guarantee a lot of you will think that's the anal prob. I don't really care. I don't judge anyone for their abductions and I'm not trying to judge anyone for having different kinds of abductions. I'll leave that to other alien species. But there are a lot of predictions in star wars that have come true, everyone acknowledges wookies are out there, so the predictions about them can't be dispelled by saying it's too long ago in a galaxy far far away and they might not have existed. To me there is plenty of compelling evidence, but I don't blame you for feeling differently. Another interesting thing is that the area 51 aliens erupted leaving behind many thousands of sedimentary layers of alien goo. If a overnight abduction happened proportionally larger amounts of layers could be formed in places. Like the planet tatooine per se. If some of the stories are true maybe they do explain some of the things we see, rather than just assuming it takes one year for each layer, etc. etc. Maybe the amount of knowledge we have accumulated in the small amount of time on this alien breed has lead us to accept theories as truths, and maybe our whole basis for some of them aren't true. In my mind, has a lot of gaps as well.

Catholics have the best sex.

i have to agree completely with torontotrance on the issue of abstaining from sex until married. what ive learned is that it all depends on your morals/beliefs/values...

the bible has said that God intends for sex to exist within marriage between a man and a woman

it is the ultimate gift that u can give to the one you love and wish to spend the rest of your life with. having already given up your virginty before hand sorta tarnishes that gift and makes it alot less meaningful/special...

now mind you i never used to believe that premarital sex was bad or anything like that. but if you have alot of christian or catholic beliefs and you do have premarital sex it does cause alot of emotional turmoil in the end if things dont work out with that person who you slept with and thought the 2 of you could be together for the rest of yourlives. having sex with the wrong person and then breaking up with them can cause of stress and anxiety and bring major feelings of guilt and sorta betrayal to your religion/beliefs

again it all depends on what u believe in....there are those that think its perfectly fine and have no issue with having sex with multiple partners over the course of their young lives. and if they can deal with it then thats allright for them i guess

also depends on what your views on sex and the actual act of it are....do u think its an espression of love intended for those who are married or just a physical act of pleasure which we shouldnt deny ourselves of?

The 2nd law of thermodynamics can be argued the other way, as well as many other scientific laws but I'll save the COR people from the long winded posts that it would take for that. Arbiter will always be a hardcore evolutionist and I will always be a hardcore creationist. He thinks what I believe is wrong and that he is right, I think he is wrong and believes in total garbage and what I believe is right.

^^^^

do you want to have sex with the girls in your sig?

what would happen if one of them came onto you hard?

I have better chances of winning super seven than ever meeting either girl. Odds btw are 1 in 15 million.

I have to agree completely with the aliens on the issue of abstaining from alien abductions until examined by a droid. what ive learned is that it all depends on your anal prob.

Star Wars has said that wookies intends for aliens to exist within Endor & exist with Eworks and a droid

it is the ultimate anal prob that u can give to the one you love and wish to spend the rest of your Star Trek collection with. having already been abducted before hand sorta tarnishes that gift and makes it alot less meaningful/special...

now mind you i never used to believe that being abducted was bad or anything like that. but if you have alot of Star Trek videos and you have masturbated while watching them it does cause alot of emotional turmoil. In the end if things dont work out with Star Trek the next generation and thought the 2 of you could be together for the rest of yourlives, there is always Deep Space Nine. Having masturbated over Deep Space Nine and then putting on an episode of Star Gate can cause alot of stress and anxiety and bring major feelings of guilt and sorta betrayal to your anal prob.

again it all depends on what u believe in....there are those that think its perfectly fine and have no issue with having masturbating over different science fiction francises over the course of their young lives. and if they can deal with it then thats allright for them i guess

also depends on what your views on aliens and the actual act of anal probs....do u think its an espression of love intended for those who are abducted or just a physical act of pleasure which we shouldnt deny ourselves of? [/QUOTE]

�Nachos?

Self-privation seems to be the purest form of insight - opinions seem to be tainted with too much experience from time to time. Keeping things simple is the way to go, as such, you do what you do, when you feel like doing it. I'm not saying you should embrace the Id at all occasions, I'm saying you should do what you feel like in terms of always being honest with who you are- always keeping in mind what feels good in terms of your inhibitions/excitations. Consideration of others is the pinnacle of consciousness - after all, who am I without you? We are all one and sexual confrontation is a return to the oneness which we all inherently, honestly, want. This transcends temptations, as temptation is only a word created to deprive you of living and supposedley enhance somebody else's. We all have our panopticon, so trust yourself to break your shackles of sexual inhibition and just do what you feel you must. If you need to wait - wait. If you need to fuck - fuck. What more is there than this in a world where we are all correct in our own considerable respect? Consensus perception is over-deified; everything anyone has ever said, ever thought, is right... and wrong...- so why argue about thoughts and perception regardless of this? It's unconscious consideration that allows you to love and hate anyone - freeing yourself of this and coalescing your logic and feeling... that is the power of a God. Thus, love = God. if love is God, and sex has the potential to be an honest expression of love (God), why would you be so inhibited to be one with God?

quote:

Originally posted by Ripped Bag Not a thing wrong with sex before marriage. However there is something wrong with kids before marriage.

same opinion

quote:

Originally posted by Nite-Mer It is impossible for anyone to know for sure one way or the other.

exactly. but then why do you believe if you are not sure? that's still beyond me. you base your beliefs on "feelings" and "abrupt changes in life" you can't explain or define. nothing exists without a description or definition.

please describe God for me.

When youre young in the teens stages as if youre going to stop and think of it, you would engage in sexual intercourse either way.

Now, im 20 and i from personal beliefs dont see it as a big thing the whole no sex b4 u get married perspective, but i do however wish i waited for my current gf to come along and not waist my virginity on my ex.

sex before marriage is a good thing.

so long as its with a person you love and trust, i dont think whether you're married or not has anything to do with it. sex is the act of love.

here you go geniuses.

quote:

faith ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fth) n. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief. See Synonyms at trust.

now quit telling all of the Christians/believers to prove what we believe or "describe god" you idiots...it obviously cannot be done, so just respect it.

and tta, your �holier than thou�, bitter and vindictive attitude completely contradicts the fundamental beliefs/ways of Christianity. get a clue.

quote:

Originally posted by Slylee now quit telling all of the Christians/believers to prove what we believe or "describe god" you idiots...it obviously cannot be done, so just respect it.

ok, i believe deformed midgets that live on Mars control our mind and decisions via telepathy. i pray to them everyday and i offer them a big crop of salad every week.

respect my beliefs.

ok, as long as you respect mine, it's all gravy

you could believe that the human race was created by a purple thumb with 4 eyes, and i'd be fine with that...i just might not trust you with my kids

quote:

Originally posted by Slylee you could believe that the human race was created by a purple thumb with 4 eyes, and i'd be fine with that

OMG! YOU know about the Purple Thumb too?!?!

ON TOPIC:

I'm ok with pre-marital sex but, I understand the reasoning/feeling behind wanting to abstain. As a young adult it seemed like a no-brainer (I wanna get laid dude!) but the older I get the more I recognize what a BIG emotional, familial, & financial responsibility sex is.

quote:

Originally posted by Slylee and tta, your �holier than thou�, bitter and vindictive attitude completely contradicts the fundamental beliefs/ways of Christianity. get a clue.

i agree and posted the same thing..i would take a humble person that is nice to people and helps other but had sex with a loved one then someone who brings people down and flame others and have virgin tattooed over his head...

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