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-- McProgressive
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Originally posted by 3xx3r7 Those people who want to find their favorite genre, will find it. I do not agree with the whole "replacement" concept.

No, you miss the point. We already like trance. We aren't trying to find a different genre. We're unhappy with the direction that some are bringing the genre, which seems creative suicide for a very great form of music I hold in high regard. Trance can be much more than what it is currently being marketed as. Sasha understood this.

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There were a whole bunch of threads like this in the past, and the whole "McProg" gets beaten to death. They say that "mcprog" is unoriginal, meanwhile, they are being unoriginal in their criticisms. Same old whining. Kind of being hypocritical, isn't it?

If someone has no argument behind their criticism, then yes, it would be hypocritical. But plenty of the people complaining have legitimate reasons based on their experience with the music over years. It becomes tiresome to type out valid arguments again and again, so it's not really surprising that some would lapse into sarcasm and criticism when no one seems to be taking notice or heed.

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Originally posted by X RichieRich X at least someone is reading my posts.

Actually, I haven't, until after you told me. I usually skipp all the boring debates and hit the reply button to input my $0.02.

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Originally posted by Geoff wow don't even take into consideration the fact that these producers and djs are trying to contribute to the edm community. cuz i see how all of u who are bashing "mcprog" are doing so much to contribute yourself.

That's a poor argument. People do not need to be producers to criticize. You don't need to be a director to criticize a film. It's perfectly within the rights of everyone to do so.

Further, by buying records I like, I am supporting and contributing to the sound I would like to hear. I DJ as well, to promote that sound. You'll find similar circumstances with most people who criticize American prog and ASOT.

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Originally posted by 3xx3r7 P.S. I like your custom title.

Thanks, I realize no one has any obligation to be as obsessive as I am about genre labels. It fit.

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Originally posted by Cobalt That's a poor argument. People do not need to be producers to criticize. You don't need to be a director to criticize a film. It's perfectly within the rights of everyone to do so. Further, by buying records I like, I am supporting and contributing to the sound I would like to hear. I DJ as well, to promote that sound. You'll find similar circumstances with most people who criticize American prog and ASOT.

you just summed up what armin and markus are doing. they are promoting their sound. so if i dont like what you play, i could have the same argument against you correct?

where does the term mcprog derive from? i dont quite understand....

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt No, you miss the point. We already like trance. We aren't trying to find a different genre. We're unhappy with the direction that some are bringing the genre, which seems creative suicide for a very great form of music I hold in high regard. Trance can be much more than what it is currently being marketed as. Sasha understood this.

Creative suicide. I completely disagree. There is a lot of good and original progressive stuff coming out. Well, I guess, it is my unoriginal taste. Although, if in 10 years "underground" trance will sound like DJ Sammy, I will switch sides. So far I don't see that happening. Speaking of marketization, without a little bit of it, trance would be as popular as gabber. Elitist make it sound like it is almost as degradively popular as hip-hop in many places. If it was overly marketed, I would have a lot more friends that like this music.

quote:

If someone has no argument behind their criticism, then yes, it would be hypocritical. But plenty of the people complaining have legitimate reasons based on their experience with the music over years. It becomes tiresome to type out valid arguments again and again, so it's not really surprising that some would lapse into sarcasm and criticism when no one seems to be taking notice or heed.

What is the point to post those arguments over and over and over and over again? To annoy others? Well, it seems to work. Like most of people stated, listen to what you like and don't say that others suck, because they like "mcprog". If I tried to do it against my unfavorable EDM genres, I would have blisters and my fingers from typing and torn vocal cords.

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Originally posted by TigerClaw How about just calling it progressive, Plain and simple.

No offence (I listen to the show, and buy some shultz etc rekkids) but its not progressive.
Its gunna be labelled McProg not because its american, but because its like Mctrance - only slower.
Once again, I believe it has its place and used properly, McProg can be effective - but yeah sorry, the name suits.

quote:

Originally posted by X RichieRich X you just summed up what armin and markus are doing. they are promoting their sound. so if i dont like what you play, i could have the same argument against you correct?

Sure.

Point being, that there is a general separation in the opinions of experienced listeners and newer listeners. That's very telling.

quote:

Originally posted by memusa The label seems appropriate because US producers are the ones who pretty much put a stamp and set a mark in this sound.

I wouldn't necessarily say that. What about these producers/dj's from the US?

Bill Hamel
Thomas Penton
Ben Camp
Steve Porter
Chris Fortier
Neil Kolo
Randall Jones & The Tigerhook Corp.
Pat Foosheen
Blackwatch
Medway
D:Fuse
Jimmy van M
Saeed & Palash

etc...

I hardly think the above producers fall into the same category of Markus Schulz and Gabriel & Dresden. So, the newly formed genre name of "McProg" should stand, while the term "American Progressive" would be a disgrace to the decent US producers like above in the context of this thread.

^ Exactly, hence why McProg works.

Maybe it should we should call it
'Younger Listeners Semi Commercial Build Up/Breakdown Synthesized House'



or McProg.

quote:

Originally posted by 3xx3r7 There is a lot of good and original progressive stuff coming out. Well, I guess, it is my unoriginal taste.

Compared with, say, 2000 or 2001? Compared with the progressive trance heydey of Global Underground? I have to disagree.

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Speaking of marketization, without a little bit of it, trance would be as popular as gabber. Elitist make it sound like it is almost as degradively popular as hip-hop in many places. If it was overly marketed, I would have a lot more friends that like this music.

This is true, but it comes at the trade-off of making the genre more widely marketable. This negatively impacts the quality of work in most cases.

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What is the point to post those arguments over and over and over and over again? To annoy others?

To attempt to make change, because outside of record purchases and self-production (which I'm working towards), there's no other way to make our opinions heard.

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listen to what you like and don't say that others suck, because they like "mcprog".

I'm not saying they suck. I'm saying they often do not know what they're talking about in the wider context of trance over the past.

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Originally posted by DJ Intrigue I hardly think the above producers fall into the same category of Markus Schulz and Gabriel & Dresden. So, the newly formed genre name of "McProg" should stand, while the term "American Progressive" would be a disgrace to the decent US producers like above in the context of this thread.

Actually that's a really good point.

Alternatively you might say Miami Progressive?

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt Actually that's a really good point. Alternatively you might say Miami Progressive?

Miami Progressive might be a good name, Better then the derogatory name that is McProg, Which I think sounds more like an insult rather then a genre name, Thats just a name that some stupid idiot came up.

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt Compared with, say, 2000 or 2001? Compared with the progressive trance heydey of Global Underground? I have to disagree.

It is a matter of opinion. I did listen to older stuff. I love it. However, I love the new stuff as well. To be honest I don't see the quality gap that you are trying to prove here.

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This is true, but it comes at the trade-off of making the genre more widely marketable. This negatively impacts the quality of work in most cases.

Especially true with the mainsteam stuff. In my opinion does not apply to current progressive. At all.

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To attempt to make change, because outside of record purchases and self-production (which I'm working towards), there's no other way to make our opinions heard.

People can make their point in non-childish and mature way. Instead of saying "you mcproggers suck and your taste of music sucks harder than jenna jameson" (or whatever), state that you don't like it and respect the opinion of others. It does not apply to you Cobalt, since you lead an intelligent debate. I am talking about others in this horrid thread. Instead of arousing anger and futher hatred toward elitists, it may actually spawn an interest to what that person listens to.

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I'm not saying they suck.

You are not the one who says they suck. Others did, as applicable in this thread.

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I'm saying they often do not know what they're talking about in the wider context of trance over the past.

Maybe they don't, but telling them that they have a horrid taste will not change things for better.

There still is oldstyle prog trance being made that has much higher production values than its old parent - and its not Florida House.
Listen to Trafik....listen to all the suff being released on GU ATM...theres heaps more, but yeah go find it, stuff like Pryda....its there.

Okay im done with this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt Sure. Point being, that there is a general separation in the opinions of experienced listeners and newer listeners. That's very telling.

so you are saying that anyone who happens to enjoy ASOT/GDJB is an unexperienced listener?

quote:

Originally posted by X RichieRich X so you are saying that anyone who happens to enjoy ASOT/GDJB is an unexperienced listener?

No. That would be an unfair an incorrect generalization. But it is certainly true that many unexperienced listeners enjoy those particular shows, while many older listeners do not. These are not centrally planned opinions, they are based on experience.

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt No. That would be an unfair an incorrect generalization. But it is certainly true that many unexperienced listeners enjoy those particular shows, while many older listeners do not. These are not centrally planned opinions, they are based on experience.

I'm an experience listener, And I enjoyed the shows very much, I been listening to trance, techno and house music since 92.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Intrigue I wouldn't necessarily say that. What about these producers/dj's from the US? Bill Hamel Thomas Penton Ben Camp Steve Porter Chris Fortier Neil Kolo Randall Jones & The Tigerhook Corp. Pat Foosheen Blackwatch Medway D:Fuse Jimmy van M Saeed & Palash etc... I hardly think the above producers fall into the same category of Markus Schulz and Gabriel & Dresden. So, the newly formed genre name of "McProg" should stand, while the term "American Progressive" would be a disgrace to the decent US producers like above in the context of this thread.

Yeah but that's like saying all trance from Holland falls under the dutch trance genre, which it doesn't and people recognize that. American progressive is just a general term I believe fits well.

quote:

Originally posted by 3xx3r7 Instead of arousing anger and futher hatred toward elitists, it may actually spawn an interest to what that person listens to.

That's correct. But it also takes a lot of patience to do so. I have a decent amount of patience. And I'm trying to speak for others that don't. I'm not excusing the insults, just offering my perspective on what ultimately fuels them.

Other points all well taken. I'm going to sleep for now.

quote:

Originally posted by TigerClaw I'm an experience listener, And I enjoyed the shows very much, I been listening to trance, techno and house music since 92.

Then I do respect your opinion, though I do not understand it. I can't see how someone who went through the trance boom of 98-99 and the progressive trance of 2000, nevermind earlier, can find redeeming value in the Miami sound, no offense. There used to be much more creativity in my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt That's correct. But it also takes a lot of patience to do so. I have a decent amount of patience. And I'm trying to speak for others that don't. I'm not excusing the insults, just offering my perspective on what ultimately fuels them. Other points all well taken. I'm going to sleep for now.

Good night. I wish others were as rational as you, who participated in this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt No. That would be an unfair an incorrect generalization. But it is certainly true that many unexperienced listeners enjoy those particular shows, while many older listeners do not. These are not centrally planned opinions, they are based on experience.

this board is full of unfair and incorrect generalizations. all i am trying to do is defend one of them, and i am an older listener who has a wide range of taste when it comes to EDM. i hope, if nothing else, you understand where i am coming from.

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt Then I do respect your opinion, though I do not understand it. I can't see how someone who went through the trance boom of 98-99 and the progressive trance of 2000, nevermind earlier, can find redeeming value in the Miami sound, no offense. There used to be much more creativity in my opinion.

completely agree.

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