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-- Bush speakes 3 DAYS AFTER and only 35 Million given...woooowww.....
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quote:

Originally posted by Reverend_Trance Again more bitching about money. Than give your own money. Volunteer at the Red Cross. Give a Check to the Red Cross, UNECIF, etc. Instead of bitch, act!

And you would know what I do, or plan to do to help current issues? NO, you do not have the slightest idea of my current and near future actions so next time you make a comment like that make sure you know what the fuck your talking about. Do not come in here acting as if you know my life and my plans of actions.

And secondly, for your knowledge, throwing money at world issues does not solve anything. That is the exact problem with you Americans, you think money is everything. You see homeless people, throw them money, Asia after Tsunami hits, throw them money. Money, unfortunately, simply buys the necessities of life, it does not solve problems. You see a homeless person, throw them money, WTF are they going to do with it. I've worked with countless homeless people in Toronto, and I have seen their condition, and MONEY WILL NOT SOLVE THEIR PROBLEMS. My point in this entire thread is that help does not come in the form of money, which your kind seem to only think. I do not care if your country gives trillions of dollars per year, you cannot tell me that Americans are helping this world. They have created thousands of civil wars in other countries, including my own home country, where, if you want to bring up credentials, hundreds of thousands of my people were kidnapped, slaughtered and raped, including family members and close family friends. I HAD TO FUCKING LEAVE MY OWN COUNTRY BECAUSE OF YOU AND YOUR COUNTRY'S STUPIDITY. You obviously have not seen what the Americans do in other parts of the world...you know, the stuff they decide to NOT SHOW to the American public. All you want to see are the figures and stats of the money being thrown out to these nations, but in actuality, it does close to nothing. Americans are a plague to this world, and have done more harm than good. Their selfish actions have left millions dead and homeless. And your telling me I should appriciate what the Americans are doing? Fuck that, fuck America, and fuck you.

The secretary general and his cronies specifically asked the world for money.

Money will buy supplies from their own region helping their economy. Good sent from here may not mend with customs in that part of the world, and would just add to the confusion of things to sort. With money they can buy what they need instead of trying to figure out what to do with items given to them.

The poeple over there were not homeless to start with, unlike a bum on the streets. They are homeless as the result of a disaster so it is a much different situation. Money will solve their problems because it will restore what they had before materially and allow them to work again. It is unfortunate however that the area is so poor that they can't solve their own problems as we do when we get hit with a multibillion dollar diaster.

When all else fails blame your problems on America...You are going to die at an early age from high blood pressure.

quote:

Originally posted by eXstatic And you would know what I do, or plan to do to help current issues? NO, you do not have the slightest idea of my current and near future actions so next time you make a comment like that make sure you know what the fuck your talking about. Do not come in here acting as if you know my life and my plans of actions. And secondly, for your knowledge, throwing money at world issues does not solve anything. That is the exact problem with you Americans, you think money is everything. You see homeless people, throw them money, Asia after Tsunami hits, throw them money. Money, unfortunately, simply buys the necessities of life, it does not solve problems. You see a homeless person, throw them money, WTF are they going to do with it. I've worked with countless homeless people in Toronto, and I have seen their condition, and MONEY WILL NOT SOLVE THEIR PROBLEMS. My point in this entire thread is that help does not come in the form of money, which your kind seem to only think. I do not care if your country gives trillions of dollars per year, you cannot tell me that Americans are helping this world. They have created thousands of civil wars in other countries, including my own home country, where, if you want to bring up credentials, hundreds of thousands of my people were kidnapped, slaughtered and raped, including family members and close family friends. I HAD TO FUCKING LEAVE MY OWN COUNTRY BECAUSE OF YOU AND YOUR COUNTRY'S STUPIDITY. You obviously have not seen what the Americans do in other parts of the world...you know, the stuff they decide to NOT SHOW to the American public. All you want to see are the figures and stats of the money being thrown out to these nations, but in actuality, it does close to nothing. Americans are a plague to this world, and have done more harm than good. Their selfish actions have left millions dead and homeless. And your telling me I should appriciate what the Americans are doing? Fuck that, fuck America, and fuck you.

Easy there, Tiger. grrr.

On a side note, do tell me more about how evil AmeriKa ruined your life. It sounds like a deliciously juicy story!

quote:

Originally posted by eXstatic And you would know what I do, or plan to do to help current issues? NO, you do not have the slightest idea of my current and near future actions so next time you make a comment like that make sure you know what the fuck your talking about. Do not come in here acting as if you know my life and my plans of actions. And secondly, for your knowledge, throwing money at world issues does not solve anything. That is the exact problem with you Americans, you think money is everything. You see homeless people, throw them money, Asia after Tsunami hits, throw them money. Money, unfortunately, simply buys the necessities of life, it does not solve problems. You see a homeless person, throw them money, WTF are they going to do with it. I've worked with countless homeless people in Toronto, and I have seen their condition, and MONEY WILL NOT SOLVE THEIR PROBLEMS. My point in this entire thread is that help does not come in the form of money, which your kind seem to only think. I do not care if your country gives trillions of dollars per year, you cannot tell me that Americans are helping this world. They have created thousands of civil wars in other countries, including my own home country, where, if you want to bring up credentials, hundreds of thousands of my people were kidnapped, slaughtered and raped, including family members and close family friends. I HAD TO FUCKING LEAVE MY OWN COUNTRY BECAUSE OF YOU AND YOUR COUNTRY'S STUPIDITY. You obviously have not seen what the Americans do in other parts of the world...you know, the stuff they decide to NOT SHOW to the American public. All you want to see are the figures and stats of the money being thrown out to these nations, but in actuality, it does close to nothing. Americans are a plague to this world, and have done more harm than good. Their selfish actions have left millions dead and homeless. And your telling me I should appriciate what the Americans are doing? Fuck that, fuck America, and fuck you.

Oh so now you're bitching that giving them money won't solve the humanitarian crisis??? Now that we're providing monetary aid in an effort to save lives this isn't enough and it accomplishes nothing? Ok well should we also use the military to get aid faster to those starving and in need? Should we send 2 carriers and over 12 ships to deliver aid to areas that local governments cannot reach?

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/01/0...n.ap/index.html

Should we provide dozens of helicopters that are undergoing 24 hour sorties to deliver aid to the hardest hit areas? Helicopters that the UN describes as "worth their weight in gold"?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...03/wtsun103.xml

How did I guess that you would attempt to politicize a tragedy with irrelevant tangeants and strawman arguemnts? Perhaps you can tell us all what other countries are doing that the US is not that is actually helping the situation ... you know since what we're doing accomplishes "nothing". Perhaps you can enlighten us on what your country or you specifically are doing to help these people? You seem to have a plan of action so what is it?

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka You made me laugh today(no surprise). New Years resolution #1...drop that damn "liberal" label.

Hehe, now my new year is already complete!

You have a good New Years? I stayed at home and played monopoly with the Mrs. over a few bottles of wine. Pretty lame, but we didn't want to mesh with the sloppy drunk drivers and sloppy drunk parties.

Then of course we went out the next night and got really sloppy, hehe.

quote:

Actually, I was too. However given how little was known since we're not talking about the most developed, industrialized nations with solid, established infrastructures(as so many have already pointed out), anyone who jumped to conclusions based on that "initial" amount was really only setting themselves up in the first place.

You're probably right, however I still think a much greater initial amount could have easily been assessed even based on the initial damage reports. I don't really blame Bush for this, but I do blame someone in his Cabinet, whoever it might be. Like I said, the PR value is pretty critical here with the biggest Muslim country in the world.

quote:

Ammo that kinda backfired(pardon the pun).

Probably, however some folks (okay, some lefties) make the claim that this UN dweeb helped light the fire under our asses (as well as the other affluent countries). I can't make the same claim because that's a bit unfounded, but either way I'm glad to see the money flowing now.

quote:

I don't think $350M is a "final offer". But as estimates and actual data pour in, better aid estimates can be made and further aide will flow where it's needed(hopefully more quickly rather than slowly). And let's not forget private/personal donations, which are not shown in any government figures, but which probably more accurately reflect individual persons' levels of generosity(not that anyone should ever be criticized for making any donation). Also, how do you put a pricetag on things like helicopters and ships that have gone in that can do things like purify hundreds of thousands of gallons of contaminated water for people to drink. yada yada yada, this argument goes on.

Yeah, I'm pretty confident to retract my claim on this now.

quote:

I'll give you that Clinton would've probably made a public appearance earlier than Dubya, but only because he is a PR whore that never misses a chance to get some face time on the TV. In any event, it's a minor issue, IMO, and is not worth losing any sleep over. What matters is the aid that is there and helping out the people that need it-not arguing about who is giving the most and how they could've enhanced their reputation by looking at it after-the-fact.

True, Clinton is a PR whore (don't cha just love him? ), but this brings up another minor beef I had with the initial response - wasn't it the Press Secretary who said a week ago Monday that they didn't want to make a statement right away because they didn't want to appear like they were merely stating "I feel your pain?"

Wait, I guess it was White House aides:

quote:

White House aides leaked that Bush, who attempts to model himself as the anti-President Bill Clinton whenever possible, wanted to avoid making an "I feel your pain" speech. But that's just what the world was looking for, and the White House risked appearing uncaring as the terrible extent of the catastrophe unfolded, critics said. "I felt like it was important to talk about what is going to be one of the major natural disasters in world history," Bush explained to reporters inTexas. "It's important for the world to know that our government is focused and will continue to respond to help those who suffer." http://www.nydailynews.com/front/st...2p-228390c.html

So they take an opportunity to show deep sympathy to this region, which contains the biggest Muslim country in the world mind you, to bash the former President? Excuse the fuck me? Yes, damnit, for one they should have been saying, "I feel your pain", or at least something along those lines, not just because we understand darth tragedy via personal national experiences, but because it's a very appropriate IMMEDIATE response! But you take that as an opportunity for more Clinton bashing?

Stupid, immaterial, inappropriate, and fucking immature, IMO. Like I said, I'm not happy with their initial response, but I do hope their work now can make up for that PR hole they dug (albeit maybe a small one). Right now it seems that it is at least working - I'm hopeful it can continue.

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Hehe, now my new year is already complete! You have a good New Years? I stayed at home and played monopoly with the Mrs. over a few bottles of wine. Pretty lame, but we didn't want to mesh with the sloppy drunk drivers and sloppy drunk parties. Then of course we went out the next night and got really sloppy, hehe.

I guess it was good. Me and the wife went to a costume party of sorts and ended up out on the town, drunk, and wearing togas at 4AM. I think my waitress at Waffle House was amused.

quote:

So they take an opportunity to show deep sympathy to this region, which contains the biggest Muslim country in the world mind you, to bash the former President? Excuse the fuck me? Yes, damnit, for one they should have been saying, "I feel your pain", or at least something along those lines, not just because we understand darth tragedy via personal national experiences, but because it's a very appropriate IMMEDIATE response! But you take that as an opportunity for more Clinton bashing?

LOL. Hey, at least Clinton was up on stage with him yesterday!

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka LOL. Hey, at least Clinton was up on stage with him yesterday!

Quite true, which shows just how much of an attention whore he is - doesn't even let a little bashing not him outa the picture!

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 True, Clinton is a PR whore (don't cha just love him? ), but this brings up another minor beef I had with the initial response - wasn't it the Press Secretary who said a week ago Monday that they didn't want to make a statement right away because they didn't want to appear like they were merely stating "I feel your pain?"

... Just another example of how Clinton is still hurting this country, now even while out of office

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Oh so now you're bitching that giving them money won't solve the humanitarian crisis??? Now that we're providing monetary aid in an effort to save lives this isn't enough and it accomplishes nothing? Ok well should we also use the military to get aid faster to those starving and in need? Should we send 2 carriers and over 12 ships to deliver aid to areas that local governments cannot reach? http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/01/0...n.ap/index.html Should we provide dozens of helicopters that are undergoing 24 hour sorties to deliver aid to the hardest hit areas? Helicopters that the UN describes as "worth their weight in gold"? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...03/wtsun103.xml How did I guess that you would attempt to politicize a tragedy with irrelevant tangeants and strawman arguemnts? Perhaps you can tell us all what other countries are doing that the US is not that is actually helping the situation ... you know since what we're doing accomplishes "nothing". Perhaps you can enlighten us on what your country or you specifically are doing to help these people? You seem to have a plan of action so what is it?

Occrider to the rescue. Took the words right from my mouth.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus ... Just another example of how Clinton is still hurting this country, now even while out of office

Well I suppose we could just kill him, but that would probably only make Hillary stronger.







....Oh yeah, one other minor point I ran across - there was a comparison between money spent on Bush's inauguration and the initial amount of $15 million. Well I didn't support that argument from the getgo, because I thought that was a silly comparison to begin with. Besides, isn't Bush's inauguration mostly spent from private funds?

Well, anyway, I thought this little tidbit from the NYTimes Magazine interview of Jeanne Phillips, the Chairwoman of Bush's Inauguration Committee was pretty funny:

quote:

I hear one of the balls will be reserved for troops who have served in Iraq or Afghanistan. Yes, the Commander-in-Chief Ball. That is new. It will be about 2,000 servicemen and their guests. And that should be a really fun event for them. As an alternative way of honoring them, did you or the president ever discuss canceling the nine balls and using the $40 million inaugural budget to purchase better equipment for the troops? I think we felt like we would have a traditional set of events and we would focus on honoring the people who are serving our country right now -- not just the people in the armed forces, but also the community volunteers, the firemen, the policemen, the teachers, the people who serve at, you know, the -- well, it's called the StewPot in Dallas, people who work with the homeless. How do any of them benefit from the inaugural balls? I'm not sure that they do benefit from them. Then how, exactly, are you honoring them? Honoring service is what our theme is about. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/02/magazine/02QUESTIONS.html?oref=login&oref=login

Perhaps a little unfair, but it still gave me a chuckle. Sorry for the tangent.

quote:

Originally posted by Reverend_Trance In 1997, in my state the entire cities of Grand Forks and East Grand Forks were flooded. The dikes broke and the combined population of 75,000 were left homeless. Then a fire broke out as the water was several feet deep. All the city could do is watch it burn. My family lost their home and many possessions.

Word to this...I was there....spent 22 straight days helping build up the dikes and protect homes and on day 23 we lost it all. It was sad, but thankfully most everyone was evacuated so there was no loss of life. But hundereds of millions lost in property. When I returned to my hometown in Montana...we set up for a truck load of aid/supplies to help rebuild. The semi filled in two days...it was great response from my community that puts up with wild fires every year to a community that was destroyed by flood.

And that is our response to a disaster on a miniscule scale to this Tsunami. The private sector has responded ten fold. I hear that private donations from individuals (I don't know if that includes corporate) has topped 200 million and for that we hope it helps ... every bit helps...as I've been a part of natural disaster now 3 times... 2 forest fires and one flood.

The only good thing that came out of the flood was the 20 days after that I didn't have to go to university...combined with the 20+ days our "class work" was to work on the flood...it was an unproductive semester. Damn you mother nature.

Why all the bitching and moaning about us giving up US Taxpayer dollars for the poor son-of-a-bitches living along some desolute south asian beach? I personally don't give a damn. And don't give a damn if we didn't contribute a bunch. See that now we're jumping in to stave off more casualties, but Jesus Friggin' H, why doesn't the UN act? Fire f*cking Annan, move the f*cking outfit to Paris and let the US be rid of the useless "worldly" society of inaction.


[[[smoke]]]

quote:

Originally posted by smokeape why doesn't the UN act? Fire f*cking Annan, move the f*cking outfit to Paris and let the US be rid of the useless "worldly" society of inaction. [[[smoke]]]

I think they are acting....but they are slower setting up the program this time so that the funds they scam off the top won't be found like they were on the oil for food program.

quote:

Originally posted by smokeape Why all the bitching and moaning about us giving up US Taxpayer dollars for the poor son-of-a-bitches living along some desolute south asian beach? I personally don't give a damn. And don't give a damn if we didn't contribute a bunch. See that now we're jumping in to stave off more casualties, but Jesus Friggin' H, why doesn't the UN act? Fire f*cking Annan, move the f*cking outfit to Paris and let the US be rid of the useless "worldly" society of inaction. [[[smoke]]]

Who was bitch and moaning at 911? What goes around comes around.If something like happens to the U.S in the future how would you feel if someone comes and says I dont give a damn, f*ck em.Stop being selfish and think about other people for once and just because those people got no oil doesnt mean they are worthless.
Funny you mention the UN,your government loves to abuse UNs power all the time when it comes to their own benifit,but when it comes to other issues things change.

It is sad knowing that there are selfish people like you who dont care about anything or anyone but themselves.

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer Who was bitch and moaning at 911? What goes around comes around.If something like happens to the U.S in the future how would you feel if someone comes and says I dont give a damn, f*ck em.Stop being selfish and think about other people for once and just because those people got no oil doesnt mean they are worthless. Funny you mention the UN,your government loves to abuse UNs power all the time when it comes to their own benifit,but when it comes to other issues things change. It is sad knowing that there are selfish people like you who dont care about anything or anyone but themselves.

Oh comon, you know if that tidal wave hit the US coast you would be at home dancing and pouring back a beer while logging in here to make fun of all our dead and say that the US deserved it.

hardcoretrancer:

@ your sig:
your saying we should call the war "terrorism" because we are defending ourselves?

quote:

Originally posted by BadBadNeil Oh comon, you know if that tidal wave hit the US coast you would be at home dancing and pouring back a beer while logging in here to make fun of all our dead and say that the US deserved it.

I see that your biased media has had a major impact on you.

Sorry that you feel that way but I think you're going abit extreme here dude.I dont know why you think I'd dance and celebrate if such events do ever take place in the U.S.since I have nothing against the people there,butI do however hate your government by passion and I hope every single one of those assholes in white house to burn into pieces.

It is just sad and disgusting seeing someone like that redneck smokeshit being so fuckin slefish and say stupid shit like what he said in his post.

quote:

Originally posted by Trazedict hardcoretrancer: @ your sig: your saying we should call the war "terrorism" because we are defending ourselves?

Stop hijacking teh thread


It is quote by Bill Maher not me,and it is true,to the people of those countries being attacked by the US is terrorism,are yo shocked?

Defending yourself?lol against what? WMD in Iraq?

quote:

Originally posted by Trazedict hardcoretrancer: @ your sig: your saying we should call the war "terrorism" because we are defending ourselves?

Defending yourselves from what?? A nation that has been attacked by you guys three times already? A nation that still hasnt produced enough evidence they were linked to 9/11????

Fukin morons

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Defending yourselves from what?? A nation that has been attacked by you guys three times already? A nation that still hasnt produced enough evidence they were linked to 9/11???? Fukin morons

+1

quote:

Originally posted by smokeape Why all the bitching and moaning about us giving up US Taxpayer dollars for the poor son-of-a-bitches living along some desolute south asian beach? I personally don't give a damn. And don't give a damn if we didn't contribute a bunch.

Well, then you will be giving a damn when muslims who have lost their homes and everything they had join Al Quaeda ranks because you were too stingy to give them some money to rebuild their towns. Something like that should have happened to you, and then you'd be telling a different story.

quote:

See that now we're jumping in to stave off more casualties, but Jesus Friggin' H, why doesn't the UN act? Fire f*cking Annan, move the f*cking outfit to Paris and let the US be rid of the useless "worldly" society of inaction. [[[smoke]]]

UN is acting and UN forces are distributing aid to the region. Why don't you f*cking get a brain?

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Well, then you will be giving a damn when muslims who have lost their homes and everything they had join Al Quaeda ranks because you were too stingy to give them some money to rebuild their towns.

No offense, Tito, but that is a really, REALLY bad argument.

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka No offense, Tito, but that is a really, REALLY bad argument.

actually it's not. Povertry breeds desperation... desperation breeds terrorism...

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew actually it's not. Povertry breeds desperation... desperation breeds terrorism...

So then, it is solely America's fault for creating terrorists because they weren't generous enough? Yeah, those stingy Americans are to blame. If only they'd just give us more handouts, we'd attack them less. Yeah, it's evil, rich America's fault. Is there no such thing as accountability to you? It's all about entitlement? How do you come to that conclusion?

Again, it is an extraordinarily terrible argument.

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka So then, it is solely America's fault for creating terrorists because they weren't generous enough? Yeah, those stingy Americans are to blame. If only they'd just give us more handouts, we'd attack them less. Yeah, it's evil, rich America's fault. Is there no such thing as accountability to you? It's all about entitlement? How do you come to that conclusion? Again, it is an extraordinarily terrible argument.

1. America do pay less in aid than most other developed countries.
2. I dont say that you have to, just that its probably smarter. Im pretty sure that 200 billions or whatever the iraqwar has costed yet would have prevented terrorism more in the long run if it had been invested in countries instead of destroying them.

So putting in some billion there now will save you money for the future.

i have heard to see that al quaida would get much support in afganistan if it was a democratic prospereus nation.

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