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-- Undercover at the clubs... busting dealers all over the place.
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Originally posted by Digital Rain How many people did you know in your life that actually used heroin? The people I've meet in my life said they got addicted after trying heroin only two times. They could not quit for shit without special treatment. You can quit cigarettes "cold turkey" and be just fine, no seizures.

My best friend was actually in rehab for a year after I left the country, she started hanging with the wrong crowd, got into heroin, so guess what, I have firsthand experience.

SHe's been clean 8 months now, but still smokes like a chimney, but thats a lesser of two evils as far as I am concerned.

I have also been addicted to speed a few years back, so I am well aware of all the implications and risks involved.

Some people manage to realise if they are going wrong, and some don't.
And the same can be said for people who eat healthy and exercise, and those that pig out on MD's and sit on their fat arses watching TV all day.

As for cigarettes, the reason they are more addictive than heroin, is that they actually contain a substance that occurs naturally in our brains (nicotine), and when we take in too much, our brains stop producing it to try and balance stuff out. Nicotine is actually one of our mood stabalising chemicals, so if you stop smoking, you don't have enough, get moody/cranky and crave the source (cigarettes).

Read up, there's plenty info out there.

you tell em kr00ts

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Originally posted by kr00t0n My best friend was actually in rehab for a year after I left the country, she started hanging with the wrong crowd, got into heroin, so guess what, I have firsthand experience. SHe's been clean 8 months now, but still smokes like a chimney, but thats a lesser of two evils as far as I am concerned. I have also been addicted to speed a few years back, so I am well aware of all the implications and risks involved. Some people manage to realise if they are going wrong, and some don't. And the same can be said for people who eat healthy and exercise, and those that pig out on MD's and sit on their fat arses watching TV all day. As for cigarettes, the reason they are more addictive than heroin, is that they actually contain a substance that occurs naturally in our brains (nicotine), and when we take in too much, our brains stop producing it to try and balance stuff out. Nicotine is actually one of our mood stabalising chemicals, so if you stop smoking, you don't have enough, get moody/cranky and crave the source (cigarettes).

I quit smoking four years ago, simply one day I realized that it was ridiculously expensive to buy cigarettes. The effects of nicotine on a human brain are highly exaggerated, I quit smoking after doing it for eight years without any mood swings, or head aches and everybody I know agrees that smoking was relaxing but when they quit the only thing most of them missed were the five minute breaks from work and did not have any mood swings. Not every brain will react the same to the stimulants you provide it with and most addictions are simply weaknesses, people snap without nicotine and get cranky for no reason, a simple chemical imbalance can even cause psychosis in a weak mind an you definitely don't need to smoke or quit cigarettes for that to happened. Did you know that now the are saying now that cheese is addictive (food product)?

Good thing.

I'm a casual narcotics consumer. I'm pretty sure the beans I popped back in May of last year aren't going to cause such damning effects when I'm 70 so much so that I am utterly incapable of walking. I doubt I will be confined to a wheelchair and shouting "damn that mdma from 2004! Dammit all to hell!".

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Originally posted by Digital Rain I quit smoking four years ago, simply one day I realized that it was ridiculously expensive to buy cigarettes. The effects of nicotine on a human brain are highly exaggerated, I quit smoking after doing it for eight years without any mood swings, or head aches and everybody I know agrees that smoking was relaxing but when they quit the only thing most of them missed were the five minute breaks from work and did not have any mood swings. Not every brain will react the same to the stimulants you provide it with and most addictions are simply weaknesses, people snap without nicotine and get cranky for no reason, a simple chemical imbalance can even cause psychosis in a weak mind an you definitely don't need to smoke or quit cigarettes for that to happened. Did you know that now the are saying now that cheese is addictive (food product)?

You touched on something very important, how it various from person to person.

SOme people have more willpower, some people don't get affected by some things as much as others, and as such, some people can have a casual drug habit and BE FINE.

I always find it hard taking anything that people who lump "drugs" into the same bracket seriously.

Every drug is different, the effects are different and they shouldn't be grouped together. Likewise making generalisations about drugs as a whole is as bad as me making the generalisation that anyone who has done so so is a geeky pretend clubbing fuckwit.

Drugs have influenced dance music in huge ways, and it's safe to say that without drugs our scene would have never taken off the way it did. Drugs made dance music, they're not killing it.

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Originally posted by Digital Rain Besides alcoholism is not a disease , it's a weakens , you simply have to know when to say I've had enough to drink for today , that's all .

And with one fell swoop you have proven yourself to be completely ignorant.

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Originally posted by UWM And with one fell swoop you have proven yourself to be completely ignorant.

Only a person with a drinking problem might find my statement ignorant, alcoholism is a weakness not a disease like they tell all the people that go to Alcoholics Anonymous meetings. I studied psychology myself for a while plus there is one more person in my household that has an actual degree in psychology. Do you seriously think that I'm ignorant because after (for example) two drinks I say no thank you I had enough for today instead of finishing the whole bottle just because it's not empty ? Trust me if I want I can drink till I pass out I simply choose not to and I do work in night clubs plus I party every weekend thanks to the fact that we have a schedule rotation, so I never loose the entire weekend on work, if you can call working in a club work, to me it's fun.

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Originally posted by Digital Rain Only a person with a drinking problem might find my statement ignorant, alcoholism is a weakness not a disease like they tell all the people that go to Alcoholics Anonymous meetings. I studied psychology myself for a while plus there is one more person in my household that has an actual degree in psychology. Do you seriously think that I'm ignorant because after (for example) two drinks I say no thank you I had enough for today instead of finishing the whole bottle just because it's not empty ? Trust me if I want I can drink till I pass out I simply choose not to and I do work in night clubs plus I party every weekend thanks to the fact that we have a schedule rotation, so I never loose the entire weekend on work, if you can call working in a club work, to me it's fun.

So then how is it that when someone decides to have 2 pills for a night and thats all, you consider it worse?

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Originally posted by kr00t0n So then how is it that when someone decides to have 2 pills for a night and thats all, you consider it worse?

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Originally posted by kr00t0n You touched on something very important, how it various from person to person. SOme people have more willpower, some people don't get affected by some things as much as others, and as such, some people can have a casual drug habit and BE FINE.

Some people get addicted to "substances" because they think it will help them forget about their problems, or make them happier, or simply because their friends are doing it. It is easier if you start for the "wrong" reason because you will most likely get bored with that "substance" after a while and you'll simply move on with your life. What you wrote about effecting brain is also true, nicotine (supposedly) gets to the brain in 5 seconds, so some people will find quitting overwhelming and I'm sure it will not be easy for their brain chemistry to adjust to the withdrawal.

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Originally posted by kr00t0n So then how is it that when someone decides to have 2 pills for a night and thats all, you consider it worse?

Depends on the pill, it might be worse than two drinks, or it might have less effect. If you already know the effects of those two pills then you simply need to figure out why you are taking them. If you know the effect is overwhelming and you take them because you think you have to and there is no other alternative than I would say it is bad.

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Originally posted by Digital Rain Depends on the pill, it might be worse than two drinks, or it might have less effect. If you already know the effects of those two pills then you simply need to figure out why you are taking them. If you know the effect is overwhelming and you take them because you think you have to and there is no other alternative than I would say it very bad.

Why would ANYONE take a pill if they didnt want to? lol

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Originally posted by xtractorfan Yeah, capital letters are over rated.

that's how i got used to write

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Originally posted by Clovis86 Why would ANYONE take a pill if they didnt want to? lol

People are often told by somebody that they need to take a pill to feel better and are so desperate that even thou they don't want to take it they still will hoping it will make "things" better.

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Originally posted by Clovis86 Why would ANYONE take a pill if they didnt want to? lol

there are different kinds of "wants". one - when a person can make serious judgements. second one - when a kid believes everything he/she hears and certain people try to exploit that. it's like why sex with underage teens is considered a felony (NO, i'm NOT comparing taking pills with pedophilia. i'm providing an example)? because, even though the children might be willing to do this themselves and are not essentially raped, the public believes that they at their age are unable to make sober judgements about such kinds of activity and can be exploited by a person with good social engineering skills.

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Originally posted by Clovis86 Why would ANYONE take a pill if they didnt want to? lol

That's crazy to say. Ever heard of peer pressure?

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Originally posted by Digital Rain People are often told by somebody that they need to take a pill to feel better and are so desperate that even thou they don't want to take it they still will hoping it will make "things" better.

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Originally posted by Digital Rain Some people get addicted to "substances" because they think it will help them forget about their problems, or make them happier, or simply because their friends are doing it.

but many just take them to have a good time. they may or may not have been pressured at first, but then they try it and like it, and decide for themselves whether or not to do it again.

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Originally posted by Omega_Blue but many just take them to have a good time. they may or may not have been pressured at first, but then they try it and like it, and decide for themselves whether or not to do it again.

I agree with that.

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Originally posted by Jocker there are different kinds of "wants". one - when a person can make serious judgements. second one - when a kid believes everything he/she hears and certain people try to exploit that. it's like why sex with underage teens is considered a felony (NO, i'm NOT comparing taking pills with pedophilia. i'm providing an example)? because, even though the children might be willing to do this themselves and are not essentially raped, the public believes that they at their age are unable to make sober judgements about such kinds of activity and can be exploited by a person with good social engineering skills.

So...how is an adult (18+ considered able to drive a car, smoke cigarettes) not able to make a serious judgment on whether or not he/she would like to try E or not. And...assuming they are able to make that choice on their own...what is the problem?


Peer Pressure: I dont know ANYONE, ANYONE who I go with to clubs who would EVER pressure someone into rolling. I would never do it myself...and I respect anyones choice to stay stone sober or get as messed up as they want...so long as it doesnt interfere with my good time.

It all boils down to this:


Moderation

I started when I turned 16, I was not forced to by anyone, but rather when my older borther started clubbing when I was 14, I got interested and did alot of studying and reading up on the subject for the 2 years before my brother would let me try them.

I made the decision, enjoyed it, and the rest is history.

I dont have to do them, especially not to enjoy music, as I listen to EDM almost constantly at any time.

I have never forced them on anyone, in fact there are a couple of my mates who I go clubbing with who go sober or on alcohol only, and they don't judge me or others on their choices.

If a person can be given the right to own a friggin gun, you'd think giving them the right to choose something less likely to kill them would make sense.

All these studies about marijuana being harmful, and having no redeeming value, medicinal or otherwise are paid for by a couple large groups:

1)Pharmaceutacal
2)Logging
3)Companies like Dow Chemical and 3M.

Pharmaceutacal groups want it kept illegal because they can't put a patent on it, or make money off of it, if you can grow your own.

The other 2 groups would stand to lose lots of money due to all the uses that hemp posseses, such as superior paper making qualities, and superior fabrics for a lesser cost to produce.

As far as I'm concerned, drugs should not be anyone's business but the users themselves. I don't care if you use drugs. If you're smart enough to use them responsibly, then knock yourself out. If you're a moron who ODs, then fine. BUT, don't ruin my fun and don't fuck up the atmosphere. That's all I ask. If I see a drugee dancing off in his own little world, cool; he's having fun, and that's good. However, if one starts being an asshole, then I get mad. That's how it should be, imo...

The drug war is a farce and those who attack occasional and harmless drug-use while turning a blind eye to the DEVESTATING affects of alcohol/smoking are ignorant.

People speak of drug use �ruining� lives, yet no one bothers to discuss the THOUSANDS of innocent people who die each year just by drunk driving alone. Perhaps you should go down to your local morgue and look at the mutilated bodies of people who have died as a result of drunk driving�their limbs ripped apart�their bodies burned so badly you can barely make out any facial features. What about the family members of these people? Go work w/ a pathologist for a while�take a look at the shriveled livers and the malignant tumors removed from alcohol abusers. Well we will forget them and focus on some people high in a club listening to EDM.

BTW here are a few numbers:

Number of American deaths per year that result directly or primarily from the following selected causes nationwide, according to World Almanacs, Life Insurance Actuarial (death) Rates, and the last 20 years of U.S. Surgeon Generals' reports.

TOBACCO 340,000 to 450,000

ALCOHOL (Not including 50% of all highway deaths and 65% of all murders) 150,000+

ASPIRIN (Including deliberate overdose) 180 to 1,000+

CAFFEINE (From stress, ulcers, and triggering irregular heartbeats, etc.) 1,000 to 10,000

"LEGAL" DRUG OVERDOSE (Deliberate or accidental) from legal, prescribed or patent medicines and/or mixing with alcohol - e.g. Valium/alcohol 14,000 to 27,000

ILLICIT DRUG OVERDOSE (Deliberate or accidental) from all illegal drugs. 3,800 to 5,200


Yes in some years CAFFIENE and LEGAL drugs can kill more than illegal drugs. Forget that�lets go back to alcohol and tobacco.

Do you know there are ADDITIONAL costs associated w/ the alcohol and tobacco�costs to our economy�our health care system?

People also keep bringing up the issue of �ruining one�s life�. Somehow drug users alone are seen as �ruining their lives�. What ignorance. All foods/substances in excess have ruined lives. You talk of depression via drug use�what about depression via obesity? LOL...you�ll find fat people stuck on prozac w/ self-esteem issues. The staggering obesity in our country while break the back of our health care system down the line. You know what percentage of our youth is overweight? You know what will happen when these fat McDonald-filled kids grow older and get diabetes and heart disease at age 30? Awww...forget that�lets focus on drug-users�.

Alcohol�lol�.one person who is down and out on heroine I will point to TEN who have liver cirrhosis, cancer, etc. I�ll show you AA meetings w/ drunkards who have ruined their family�s lives. I�ll show you widows, brothers, sisters, fathers, who weep for their innocent loved one lost in a stupid drunk driving accident.

I�m not a fan if �illicit� drugs, but the focus of our attentions on the wrong problem astounds me. We�ll go after some guys rolling in a club while on any given night dozens will die b/c other LEGAL substances.

Probably because these legal substances have been around for centuries and have become so deeply ingrained in society that no government would have the balls to try and criminalise them. That and the fact they earn lots of $$$$ in tax revenue from their sale.

Something has to change, either they outlaw cigarettes and alcohol or they decriminalise illicit drugs like weed. The "war" on drugs cannot be won.

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