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-- Ohhh No No No, I Don't Respect That
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Well, I guess I was referring more to the comment someone made about a computer playing a perfect, pre-recorded set or something like that. And no, I've never used Abelton or seen a dj use Abelton live so I really can't say anything about it.

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Originally posted by KristineClub Well, I guess I was referring more to the comment someone made about a computer playing a perfect, pre-recorded set or something like that. And no, I've never used Abelton or seen a dj use Abelton live so I really can't say anything about it.

Okay, point taken...but the DJ's using Ableton right now are, AFAIK not doing any pre-recorded crap. You can do the same popping a CD into a CDJ and pretending you're mixing...Cokenfold has done it.

Ableton offers a creative edge that exceeds CDJ/Vinyl, and if you cant understand that then you have obviously never used the program.

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Originally posted by KristineClub Yeah, and I'd rather watch a machine launch baseballs out of a stadium all night instead of seeing nine men out on a field exhibiting truley amazing athletic ability . It's not just about the sound you hear, it's about seeing a performance. When you hear an unbelieveable set at a party and you know that there was some person up there doing all that, it just makes it that much better.

When you hear an ubelievable set at a party, its the sum of a lot of work by a lot of producers. The DJ merely plays the records/cds. That argument works both ways.

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Originally posted by Hypersky When you hear an ubelievable set at a party, its the sum of a lot of work by a lot of producers. The DJ merely plays the records/cds. That argument works both ways.

I see what you're saying but what fun would a party be if a guy was up there just playing records and cd singles and waiting until each track is completely finished before he puts the next one on? It wouldn't really matter how great the music was, the party would still blow. Without DJs the producers are nothing and vice versa.

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Originally posted by starglider Get used to it, vinyl is dying.

z0mg u n00bl4r, teh best sk33lz r using viiiinyyylzzzzzzzzzz0rrr

(btw I agree with you!)

Last weekend I saw one of the sydneys local psy DJs, Ming bash out a laptop set and it fucking killed so hard. He was taking tracks and cutting them up like you wouldnt believe. As soon as I recognised a track, it was back into another one. Everything was precisely spot on (I guess cos he wasnt beatmixing) and the fx were flying all over the shop and pretty well placed. His interaction with the crowd wasnt huge, since he was working hard, but people were in such a frenzy that no one gave a shit.

I think with the right music... breaks/psy/electro an ableton set can open up a lot of possibilities for mashups and just general beat chopping mayhem. If your just fading track after track for your whole set as you would if you were mixing stright trance, then yeah... you might aswell atleast use CDJs so it atleast looks like your doing something up there.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Ohhh No No No, I Don't Respect That

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Originally posted by Mike_Foyle i hate it when people bitch and whine about ableton and such like as if beatmatching is the only thing that seperates a good dj from a bad one.

I hate it how everyone now seems to jump on the Ableton bandwagon as if it is the next best thing since sliced bread and simply hate on vinyls and vinyl dj's. "Damn, Sasha stopped spinning vinyls, so his decision MUST be the law of the land and therefore I will stop using vinyls and directly hate on them." I do like Sasha, but this is getting ridiculous. It's seems like now if a dj doesn't use the 50 million piece equipment setup with Ableton, Final Scratch, CDJ's, turntables, and an EFX unit, but instead chooses to use only vinyl, then they are automatically shit and boring. That's the immediate impression I get from many users on these boards after having read through a few threads on this topic and frankly, that quite pisses me off since I'm a vinyl dj by choice and I honestly can't understand why so many people seem to talk this way.

I think a good dj is a good dj, no matter what media format or equipment is used. You can be a great dj and use the bare-bones vinyl setup or be a great dj and use the Zabiela/Sasha setup. You can also be a crap dj and use vinyl or be a crap dj and use Ableton or whatever. The above applies to both technical aspects as well as track selection and flow. What matters to me at the end of the day is the music and if I can enjoy myself and dance nicely to it. If a dj can throw down an awesome set with the best tracks and flow, then I'm good to go regardless of what equipment and media they use. Sure, there is something unique about seeing a dj spin vinyl, but if they can't throw down a set I can get into, then it really doesn't impress me if they are using Ableton or not because the music being played is not to my liking.

Oh, as for the "vinyls are dying" comments, I don't think so for a little while yet. I think as far as new and future releases, vinyl might be on its way out with cd singles and digital downloads taking over the record store shelves in its place. However, for existing vinyls and older records, then no, vinyls will still hang around due to certain tracks not ever seeing the light of day on anything except vinyl. What about those record labels that went belly up and their whole catalog was released as 12" records? Obviously, those tracks will never see a proper digial audio release if this is the case, unless the end user rips the vinyl to .wav or .mp3 format, which I feel is a complete waste of time since you can just spin the original record. Also, some labels may not see the financial gains to release their back catalogue and newer tracks on cd/digital media, so records might be the only solution.

the artform is merely evolving
people are taking it to the next level
it takes skill and technical ability no matter what medium you use
adding or switching to new gear just gives the artist new choices and added sources
plus vinyl is expensive, both to cut and purchase

i for one get tired of the old, beatmatch, mix, repeat you get with records

as long as the tunes are pumpin and people are goovin, i don't see a problem
people forget that a dj is there to play music, you're there to dance

Re: Ohhh No No No, I Don't Respect That

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Originally posted by WojiePoj What the hell is wrong with today's live shows/ raves ? one word ....computers....Just because a Dj or Producer has become famous in the scene of trance the liveshows they do consist of nothing but laptops and cd mixers etc. I dont respect this anymore there trying too hard to make everything mix perfectly and getting rid of the skill involved...my respect and props tonight goes out to the local Dj's that spin vinyls live at their hometown scenes ......

ok

Its made on computers, recorded on computers, mastered on computers. Its only at the very final stage is it pressed onto teh vinyl for da superstars to ponce around on the decks and act like they actually made the fucking thing. And somehow someone skipping that final stage and actually playing it off a computer is what?? Somehow less of an experience? Just because theres not some jock up there creating the illusion that its not actually an electronic experience becuase in some abstract way having the vinyl there spinning somehow makes the music more real to the people on the floor who infact can't even see the vinyl because they are on the dancefloor and he is in the booth.

Whack man, really whack...

^ lol fucking werd

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ohhh No No No, I Don't Respect That

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Originally posted by DJ Intrigue I hate it how everyone now seems to jump on the Ableton bandwagon as if it is the next best thing since sliced bread and simply hate on vinyls and vinyl dj's. "Damn, Sasha stopped spinning vinyls, so his decision MUST be the law of the land and therefore I will stop using vinyls and directly hate on them." I do like Sasha, but this is getting ridiculous. It's seems like now if a dj doesn't use the 50 million piece equipment setup with Ableton, Final Scratch, CDJ's, turntables, and an EFX unit, but instead chooses to use only vinyl, then they are automatically shit and boring. That's the immediate impression I get from many users on these boards after having read through a few threads on this topic and frankly, that quite pisses me off since I'm a vinyl dj by choice and I honestly can't understand why so many people seem to talk this way. I think a good dj is a good dj, no matter what media format or equipment is used. You can be a great dj and use the bare-bones vinyl setup or be a great dj and use the Zabiela/Sasha setup. You can also be a crap dj and use vinyl or be a crap dj and use Ableton or whatever. The above applies to both technical aspects as well as track selection and flow. What matters to me at the end of the day is the music and if I can enjoy myself and dance nicely to it. If a dj can throw down an awesome set with the best tracks and flow, then I'm good to go regardless of what equipment and media they use. Sure, there is something unique about seeing a dj spin vinyl, but if they can't throw down a set I can get into, then it really doesn't impress me if they are using Ableton or not because the music being played is not to my liking. Oh, as for the "vinyls are dying" comments, I don't think so for a little while yet. I think as far as new and future releases, vinyl might be on its way out with cd singles and digital downloads taking over the record store shelves in its place. However, for existing vinyls and older records, then no, vinyls will still hang around due to certain tracks not ever seeing the light of day on anything except vinyl. What about those record labels that went belly up and their whole catalog was released as 12" records? Obviously, those tracks will never see a proper digial audio release if this is the case, unless the end user rips the vinyl to .wav or .mp3 format, which I feel is a complete waste of time since you can just spin the original record. Also, some labels may not see the financial gains to release their back catalogue and newer tracks on cd/digital media, so records might be the only solution.

i play vinyl and cd because i dont have the skill or patience to perform a decent set in ableton live.

i think you are a vinyl junkie who is sulking because it is slowly being replaced.

I personally haven't tried Abelton so I can't tell if it's easy of whatever, but I respect the DJs who's using vinyl more. Of course that might just be me cause I'm a little old fashion that still uses "just" vinyl. I have nothing against FS users though, but when it comes to people who use nothing but a laptop to mix i feel it's just to far away from what it used to be...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ohhh No No No, I Don't Respect That

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Originally posted by Mike_Foyle i think you are a vinyl junkie who is sulking because it is slowly being replaced.

i read his post word for word, and i think otherwise

HONESTLY, i could not give a F@#% what medium i use. As long as im playing the music i feel and makes people feel something!

thats just my opinion and you are entitled to use what ever you want.
dont worry about what other peoeple say that contradict what you would like to use.

go with your feeling?

by the way at the moment i only use vinyl and sometimes pcdj red(great transitions from vinyl 2 PC etc.)! but want cdj's and abelton and also serato scratch one day. therefore that will open up some different doors as it influences what i will play.

I WILL ALWAYS BUY VINYL PROMISE TO THAT, IT IS SOMETHING SPECIAL ABOUT IT.

quote:

Originally posted by Axolotyl Its made on computers, recorded on computers, mastered on computers. Its only at the very final stage is it pressed onto teh vinyl for da superstars to ponce around on the decks and act like they actually made the fucking thing. And somehow someone skipping that final stage and actually playing it off a computer is what?? Somehow less of an experience? Just because theres not some jock up there creating the illusion that its not actually an electronic experience becuase in some abstract way having the vinyl there spinning somehow makes the music more real to the people on the floor who infact can't even see the vinyl because they are on the dancefloor and he is in the booth. Whack man, really whack...

Well put

not another debate here's my $0.02.

I can spin with vinyl, but I don't. "why?" you ask? because I have a hell of a lot more fun DJing with Ableton. I can screw around a lot and I get into it a lot more. I do a bunch of mixing on the fly and screwing around. The crowd definitely enjoys it more when I use Ableton, and I do too.
I'm not saying that if you use Ableton as compared to decks you're automatically more entertaining, I just work better with it. There are some who can do amazing sets with just decks, and some who can do amazing sets with just Ableton. it's all a matter of PERSONAL PREFERENCE, and no one should be passing all this judgement when it's really all about the music. End of story.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ohhh No No No, I Don't Respect That

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Originally posted by Mike_Foyle i think you are a vinyl junkie who is sulking because it is slowly being replaced.

Yes, I am a vinyl junkie, but I'm not anti-technology and I have no idea where you pulled that statement from. If you would re-read my post again, you'd notice my main problem has to do with the cold shoulder and bashing of vinyls and vinyl dj's, as if somehow they are now completely inferior and should be forgotten because they choose to spin vinyls as compared to jumping all over Ableton like Sasha has. I've read so many posts on here within the last few months from users who seem to think this way. I won't post names, but my question I guess is why all the ignorance and hatred all of a sudden. I have no problem with Ableton, because it is all about the music for me. If an Ableton dj can give me that, cool. If a vinyl dj can give me that, cool also. Technology can pop up and start to replace whatever was used before, but a bit of respect should still go out to those who can throw down a wicked set with older methods and I just find it absolutely hilarious at how brainwashed people get around here. "OMFG, SASHA USES ABLETON, SO NOW THAT MUST BE THE ONLY WAY TO PROPERLY DJ... VINYLS MUST DIEEEEEE BECAUSE SASHA SAID SO." Give me a break. Oh, and honestly Mike, judging from some of your posts I've read, you come off as being an ignorant kid at times... just thought I'd let you know.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ohhh No No No, I Don't Respect That

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Originally posted by DJ Intrigue Yes, I am a vinyl junkie, but I'm not anti-technology and I have no idea where you pulled that statement from. If you would re-read my post again, you'd notice my main problem has to do with the cold shoulder and bashing of vinyls and vinyl dj's, as if somehow they are now completely inferior and should be forgotten because they choose to spin vinyls as compared to jumping all over Ableton like Sasha has. I've read so many posts on here within the last few months from users who seem to think this way. I won't post names, but my question I guess is why all the ignorance and hatred all of a sudden. I have no problem with Ableton, because it is all about the music for me. If an Ableton dj can give me that, cool. If a vinyl dj can give me that, cool also. Technology can pop up and start to replace whatever was used before, but a bit of respect should still go out to those who can throw down a wicked set with older methods and I just find it absolutely hilarious at how brainwashed people get around here. "OMFG, SASHA USES ABLETON, SO NOW THAT MUST BE THE ONLY WAY TO PROPERLY DJ... VINYLS MUST DIEEEEEE BECAUSE SASHA SAID SO." Give me a break. Oh, and honestly Mike, judging from some of your posts I've read, you come off as being an ignorant kid at times... just thought I'd let you know.

i didnt mean to come across like that it just seemed like ur last post was aimed at me making out that im a vinyl hater and how it really pisses u off when people like me open their mouths. no offence meant.

Re: hmmm

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Originally posted by WojiePoj True, good point added but not considered by myself...think about it...i know that the music will sound amazingly great but the could play a loop playlist off their PC's and leave the stage go have a couple of drinks or even a power nap and return in an hour... soon itll be like that...im just sayin im sick of seeing djs click through that garbage instead of turning around using their head and trying to find a vinyl behind them ....

I'm with you using two/three decks to mix trance sets is what i started out lisening to thats what we should stick to nothing sets the mood like vinyl,but in the same respect vinyl is old and cd are in and alot of people like to stay with technology soon dj's will start using media cards to mix there sets.

/thread closed

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