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-- Are digital "labels" killing EDM?
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quote:

Originally posted by a98 and you know this because you love digital releases so much that you have gone them all through. and you know every producer personally and know the story behind their tracks.. gimme a break with the bullshit already, you are acting like you know everything when you don't know anything.

http://www.discogs.com/artist/a98




(i for one have to hear those, before i decide if your opinion is valid or not.)

finally a good topic on here, some valid points made, my 2 cents...

Theres good side & bad sides to 'Digital Labels'

Pro's is that it can give upcoming producers the platform they need to get early releases out etc & form some profile, and also give accessibilty for tracks that might not cut the mustard for vinyl but still equally good enough for a release on download (less risks etc)

Con's of it tho is that there is a huge saturation in the market, as someone pointed out everyone is starting up 'digital labels' and theres a huge issue of quality control being overlooked by a lot of these labels. There definitely needs to be a more 'quality over quantity' if its going to get better & label bosses realising a release every 2 weeks is not doing the scene any favours!

quote:

Originally posted by a98 and you know this because you love digital releases so much that you have gone them all through. and you know every producer personally and know the story behind their tracks.. gimme a break with the bullshit already, you are acting like you know everything when you don't know anything.

What's with the hostility, man? I know you're one of these digital "release" people, but really... there's no need for childish attitude like that.

Why would I need to know the producers personally? I've listened to tons and tons of tracks by these artists (including you) and most of the time they really do sound like 1) someone else or 2) completely amateurish. Yet, instead of giving them out for free they insist on making us pay for it.

Do you really think I'm just making crap up so I can bash someone? Feel free to disagree with me (this is an open discussion after all) but don't give me the attitude.

quote:

Originally posted by Akazi well i dont really want to go very off topic but really these people who make minimal music nowadays dont really understand what minimal is all about. its really easy to make a minimal song than a lets say house or a trance or techno song. its like in paintings you know Picasso with his abstract paintings and matisse and all these people were doing these mad and unusual stuff but not because they couldnt draw a body of a person perfectly, they just found theyr style. A minimal music is something you have to get to its a jurney till there. dont get me wrong i love minimal and stuff but alot of people are jumping on minimal nowadays. Luciano,Villalobos,Koze,Meyer,Lazarus,and all the other minimal masters are fuckin awesome but really you can hear a difference between theyr sounds and between the sounds that the "new guys" make and in those new guys's music something is missing, the depth is missing. and i think that not only minimal but trance has lost its depth too, since alot of people who make music dont really spend alot of time infront of theyr music making gears, they just know the formula , throw it all together and voila they make tune that sounds technicaly very good but there are no intense emotions and thougts behind those songs. producers nowadays dont really spend alot of times on theyr music, which is very sad imo. i think technology has alot to do with this too, because it made making music a very easy and a fast process. people dont take the time to get to know theyr softwares or and stuff because there more and more new stuff coming out everyday so its very easy to get lost in it... you just have to know what you want and use only the stuff that you need.

did you listen to any of those things that he linked? I found that some of them really did sound like a person spent alot of time thinking about the pieces. Occasionally I will bump into one of these internet musicians in IRC channels and stuff, and I find that they can actually be quite thoughtful people. Maybe we are just listening to different music, I am not finding formulaic tunes in the internet releases im getting nearly as much as I do in trance tunes.

I guess there is no real point in trying to convince anybody, people will think whatever they want to think, but I think you guys would be surprised about the good music out there that is free to download, and I'm just trying to share the enjoyable stuff I've been finding.

quote:

Originally posted by skip http://www.discogs.com/artist/a98 (i for one have to hear those, before i decide if your opinion is valid or not.)

those are not real releases, they are old netlabel releases that someone has for some weird reason uploaded to discogs.
for my current releases head to http://a98.subtraxx.com/
though i don't see how that has anything to do with my opinnion.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery What's with the hostility, man? I know you're one of these digital "release" people, but really... there's no need for childish attitude like that.

well i'm sorry, but i'm getting really tired of reading you complaining about everything in every single thread in every single board, i haven't heard anything positive from your mouth ever.
and the point was that you generalize big time even though you haven't heard much of digital releases.

and i for example worked for a remix i did for deep blue (digital release) for many many hours, days and months, and did A LOT of exports on that, and then someone comes saying that all digital releases are crap produced in few hours and with only goal getting cash.
if you think that the release of yours deep blue was going to sign was suppose to be vinyl you are way off, they are mostly signing for digital releases nowadays (unless it's really really good). so if it's so easy to get signed for digital releases, why didn't your song became one?

quote:

Why would I need to know the producers personally? I've listened to tons and tons of tracks by these artists (including you) and most of the time they really do sound like 1) someone else or 2) completely amateurish. Yet, instead of giving them out for free they insist on making us pay for it.

well you must know them, if you know that 90% of the tracks are produced with FL and they were offered to "big" labels first.
the reason for me to sign something for digital release is that because that way it gets a lot more attention and promotion for it. it's not for the money at all.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Since the "releases" are digital, there are no real expenses in running a label - therefore there's no need to be selective about what you're signing whatsoever.

I disagree. If you're serious about running a label you're trying to build a reputation, a following - doesn't matter if releases are digital or on vinyl. To me it is every bit as important to be selective about my digi only releases as the vinyl ones - my name is all I've got really.

Not that I don't understand where you're coming from in this, there is too much sub-standard music coming out from the digi only lot at the mo. But all that will change soon, as these labels are being dropped one by one from the big shop sites.

quote:

Originally posted by a98 well i'm sorry, but i'm getting really tired of reading you complaining about everything in every single thread in every single board, i haven't heard anything positive from your mouth ever. and the point was that you generalize big time even though you haven't heard much of digital releases.

What do you mean I haven't? Do you really think I would had even made this thread if I hadn't heard much digital releases?

As for the other thing, people like you only see what they want to see. I help people when I can, write tutorials, do mixes from them but do you notice that? Of course not.

quote:

and i for example worked for a remix i did for deep blue (digital release) for many many hours, days and months, and did A LOT of exports on that, and then someone comes saying that all digital releases are crap produced in few hours and with only goal getting cash.

Now you're putting words in my mouth. Never did I say all digital releases are crap. I said there are certain labels that do this. For some reason you seem to be taking this as if I was accusing you of something which certainly isn't the case.

quote:

if you think that the release of yours deep blue was going to sign was suppose to be vinyl you are way off, they are mostly signing for digital releases nowadays (unless it's really really good). so if it's so easy to get signed for digital releases, why didn't your song became one?

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. I've never even sent a demo to anyone unless they've asked for it first. When I was in contacts with Deep Blue digital releases were a very new thing and rarely anyone did those - besides, if someone offered me a deal for a digital release I would most likely turn it down because I'd rather just give my music away for free.
What does this have to do with the topic anyway?

quote:

well you must know them, if you know that 90% of the tracks are produced with FL and they were offered to "big" labels first.

I really have no idea why you assume I must "know them" to know that. Are you honestly telling me you can't tell if some average track was made in FL or Reason or whatnot? They all have a distinct sound to them, and only the artists that are good at what they do can make a track with said programs and get rid of the standard sound.

quote:

the reason for me to sign something for digital release is that that way it gets a lot more attention and promotion for it. it's not for the money at all.

Good for you.

I really have no idea why you're being so hostile about this. I've shared my views and asked if people agree with me - I have never claimed my views to be facts nor did I mention any artist/label names directly. Yet you feel like I've insulted you personally and said all digital releases are shit by default.

well it was basicly that "90% of the digital releases are crap" statement that got me going. now you say that "some of the digital labels", but 90% of the whole digital catalogue is a bit more than just some.

anyway i'm sorry if i've gotten the wrong image of you, i don't follow this forum much, but when i do that's the picture i've gotten, i apologize.
anyway i respect your opinnion on this case, sometimes people opinnions just come out a little harsh, like they are the truth or something.

digital releases are the future, weather we like it or not.
personally i think few years back they even released a lot of crap on vinyl, atleast nowadays tracks on vinyl need to be quality (unless the artist is already very known = name sells)
and if my own opinnion hasn't come clear yet, i really think respected labels, weather they are half digital or totally digital, still have high standards for the digital releases. don't let few bad releases ruin the whole new culture we are having here.
for instance, i got payed more for my digital remix to deep blue, than i got from my vinyl remix to monster tunes, so atleast that label takes digital releases seriously.

90% of all trance is shit, let alone digital releases.

quote:

Originally posted by a98 digital releases are the future, weather we like it or not. personally i think few years back they even released a lot of crap on vinyl, atleast nowadays tracks on vinyl need to be quality (unless the artist is already very known = name sells) and if my own opinnion hasn't come clear yet, i really think respected labels, weather they are half digital or totally digital, still have high standards for the digital releases. don't let few bad releases ruin the whole new culture we are having here.

I think you've misunderstood my initial post somewhat since that's more or less the same thing I was trying to say
The established labels do bring out quality releases, it doesn't matter if it's vinyl, CD or MP3. It's these new labels that keep popping up at an increasing rate that worry me.

quote:

Originally posted by a98 well it was basicly that "90% of the digital releases are crap" statement that got me going. now you say that "some of the digital labels", but 90% of the whole digital catalogue is a bit more than just some. anyway i'm sorry if i've gotten the wrong image of you, i don't follow this forum much, but when i do that's the picture i've gotten, i apologize. anyway i respect your opinnion on this case, sometimes people opinnions just come out a little harsh, like they are the truth or something. digital releases are the future, weather we like it or not. personally i think few years back they even released a lot of crap on vinyl, atleast nowadays tracks on vinyl need to be quality (unless the artist is already very known = name sells) and if my own opinnion hasn't come clear yet, i really think respected labels, weather they are half digital or totally digital, still have high standards for the digital releases. don't let few bad releases ruin the whole new culture we are having here. for instance, i got payed more for my digital remix to deep blue, than i got from my vinyl remix to monster tunes, so atleast that label takes digital releases seriously.

I heard your remix of "Unchained Melody" a lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng time ago.

I actually liked it even though it was a bit on the cheesy side

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J 90% of all trance is shit, let alone digital releases.

Wrong, and I resent comments like that. That's as stupid as me saying 90% of Brits are wankers or something like that.

quote:

Originally posted by Numidia Wrong, and I resent comments like that. That's as stupid as me saying 90% of Brits are wankers or something like that.

I can meet ten new people and nine of them won't be wankers. I can hear ten new trance tracks from random sources and nine of them will be a waste of time.

quote:

well it was basicly that "90% of the digital releases are crap" statement that got me going.

95% of digital releases absolutely stink

Does that make all of you happier? Can you really say that more then 5%, or even 1% are ceative at all?

The fact is that when I listen to however many tunes a day on digital releases, 95+% of the good ones were previously released on records.

I think it's prety simple, if it is "that good" it would be on vinyl/cd.

I personally beleive that there is more creative and interesting music floating around out there than any single person could hear. I tried to pick from my collection the things that might interest other people on this site, and I put them in my sig. All this talk makes me wonder if everyone is of the opinion that all my picks suck, I tried to do a diverse selection of stuff so that everyone could at least enjoy one of them.

I find most of the things I'm picking are made by ameteurs who dont really try very hard to get published and rather just put up music on the internet for the joy of sharing it, so it might not be the most fantastic valuable thing evar, but there is a certain charm to it IMHO.

quote:

Originally posted by sandstorm03 95% of digital releases absolutely stink Does that make all of you happier? Can you really say that more then 5%, or even 1% are ceative at all? The fact is that when I listen to however many tunes a day on digital releases, 95+% of the good ones were previously released on records. I think it's prety simple, if it is "that good" it would be on vinyl/cd.

It isnt that simple at all, because people buy fewer records these days and labels arent prepared to take risks like they used to.

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 I personally beleive that there is more creative and interesting music floating around out there than any single person could hear.

The problem is that there is 100x more crap then there is of creative & interesting stuff.

Maybe sites should make a seperate section for the creative & interesting tracks, and put the others somewhere else...

quote:

Originally posted by Dumb_Dan It isnt that simple at all, because people buy fewer records these days and labels arent prepared to take risks like they used to.

If a track is that good then it wouldn't be a risk, would it?

quote:

Originally posted by sandstorm03 If a track is that good then it wouldn't be a risk, would it?

As we all know, quality doesnt equal sales. Soon, only records that sell 1000 and upwards will be released. Forget underground stuff.
Then we'll all love digital labels hehe.

quote:

Originally posted by Dumb_Dan As we all know, quality doesnt equal sales. Soon, only records that sell 1000 and upwards will be released. Forget underground stuff. Then we'll all love digital labels hehe.

you're right, for digital labels quantity = sales & thats the problem...

There are techniques one can learn to use to navigate through the web and find good music while avoiding the crappy stuff. I find that it works alot like tranceaddict except on a larger scale. Each person specilizes in something that they enjoy and shares their findings with the rest of the world in the form of a blog or a podcast or something(equivalent to the cliques and alliances that form here on TA). Eventually one figures out which people share similar tastes and they help each other to find good stuff. Each person has access to different sources of music, but together when people share their finds with each other one is able to accumulate quite a healthy collection of music and minimize the amount of crap they have to filter through. It is like pop music without payola, the most quality music spreads viraly, there is a democratic process picking the best music rather than a corrupt industry controlling it all and dictating to us what we should like.

I mean, I'm a whiny little bitch when it comes to finding music, I don't try very hard at all, you've probably seen the posts where people accuse me of not having enough passion for the music to bother finding any of it for myself. But if I of all people am capable of finding enjoyable music on the internet, then really there isn't much of an excuse for the rest of you who try so much harder than me and make music a larger priority in your lives. In relatively short amount of time (a couple days during my spring break), I have accumulated a list of bookmarks for sites which I feel put out good music, and when I frequent those sites they seem to be pretty consistent about their releases being good. I feel like it doesn't take a very long time for a person to get an idea of which sites are good and which ones are shitty, regardless of the site's age. One learns to avoid those free for all music upload sites quite quickly and stick to the places which specialize in good sounds.

So when I read stuff like this I wonder, are you guys listening to stuff that anihilites the stuff I am finding in comparison? Am I just oblivious to the awesome stuff and stuck listening to the 90% crap music that is the butt of all these complaints?

I definately agree that the ratio of qulity to shit is very poor, but I feel like it is easy to avoid the shit music if people work together, and that is really the only reason why I am even bothering with this argument, because I would like to have more people working together with me to find good music.

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 There are techniques one can learn to use to navigate through the web and find good music while avoiding the crappy stuff. I find that it works alot like tranceaddict except on a larger scale. Each person specilizes in something that they enjoy and shares their findings with the rest of the world in the form of a blog or a podcast or something(equivalent to the cliques and alliances that form here on TA). Eventually one figures out which people share similar tastes and they help each other to find good stuff. Each person has access to different sources of music, but together when people share their finds with each other one is able to accumulate quite a healthy collection of music and minimize the amount of crap they have to filter through. It is like pop music without payola, the most quality music spreads viraly, there is a democratic process picking the best music rather than a corrupt industry controlling it all and dictating to us what we should like. I mean, I'm a whiny little bitch when it comes to finding music, I don't try very hard at all, you've probably seen the posts where people accuse me of not having enough passion for the music to bother finding any of it for myself. But if I of all people am capable of finding enjoyable music on the internet, then really there isn't much of an excuse for the rest of you who try so much harder than me and make music a larger priority in your lives. In relatively short amount of time (a couple days during my spring break), I have accumulated a list of bookmarks for sites which I feel put out good music, and when I frequent those sites they seem to be pretty consistent about their releases being good. I feel like it doesn't take a very long time for a person to get an idea of which sites are good and which ones are shitty, regardless of the site's age. One learns to avoid those free for all music upload sites quite quickly and stick to the places which specialize in good sounds. So when I read stuff like this I wonder, are you guys listening to stuff that anihilites the stuff I am finding in comparison? Am I just oblivious to the awesome stuff and stuck listening to the 90% crap music that is the butt of all these complaints? I definately agree that the ratio of qulity to shit is very poor, but I feel like it is easy to avoid the shit music if people work together, and that is really the only reason why I am even bothering with this argument, because I would like to have more people working together with me to find good music.

I understand you, but listning to the vinyl releases on juno/chemical seems to be much more productive then going to digital download sites.

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 There are techniques one can learn to use to navigate through the web and find good music while avoiding the crappy stuff. I find that it works alot like tranceaddict except on a larger scale. Each person specilizes in something that they enjoy and shares their findings with the rest of the world in the form of a blog or a podcast or something(equivalent to the cliques and alliances that form here on TA). Eventually one figures out which people share similar tastes and they help each other to find good stuff. Each person has access to different sources of music, but together when people share their finds with each other one is able to accumulate quite a healthy collection of music and minimize the amount of crap they have to filter through. It is like pop music without payola, the most quality music spreads viraly, there is a democratic process picking the best music rather than a corrupt industry controlling it all and dictating to us what we should like. I mean, I'm a whiny little bitch when it comes to finding music, I don't try very hard at all, you've probably seen the posts where people accuse me of not having enough passion for the music to bother finding any of it for myself. But if I of all people am capable of finding enjoyable music on the internet, then really there isn't much of an excuse for the rest of you who try so much harder than me and make music a larger priority in your lives. In relatively short amount of time (a couple days during my spring break), I have accumulated a list of bookmarks for sites which I feel put out good music, and when I frequent those sites they seem to be pretty consistent about their releases being good. I feel like it doesn't take a very long time for a person to get an idea of which sites are good and which ones are shitty, regardless of the site's age. One learns to avoid those free for all music upload sites quite quickly and stick to the places which specialize in good sounds. So when I read stuff like this I wonder, are you guys listening to stuff that anihilites the stuff I am finding in comparison? Am I just oblivious to the awesome stuff and stuck listening to the 90% crap music that is the butt of all these complaints? I definately agree that the ratio of qulity to shit is very poor, but I feel like it is easy to avoid the shit music if people work together, and that is really the only reason why I am even bothering with this argument, because I would like to have more people working together with me to find good music.

a blog or something isn't a completely bad idea, but keep in mind people's tastes vary A LOT ("good music" is extremely subjective), making it in my opinion quite hard to run an online community very focused on certain kinds of music. i tried to do it in the past and it collapsed since with time our tastes completely went apart

Fair enough, I proabably lean more towards this internet stuff because I enjoy the computer alot and spend alot more time on it that other people seem to be willing to . Still that doesnt prevent the sort of collaboration that I am after, you could find me good vinyl releases, I could find you good download releases, so long as people aren't assuming that everything I find sucks.

Its more a ring of blogs and stuff, everyone kinda sets up a circuit of sites they follow and that changes over time.

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915

i've just listened to the tracks in your sig, here's what i think of them:

Paniq - 23 is the new 42 - alright in comparison with modern day psy, but lacking in sound design, mastering, and beat programming. (definitely subpar against physical releases)
Dave Seagrim - Trip - serious mixdown and mastering issues, the 160kbps mp3 sounds as if it's a 64kbps file if not less.
Yence - Deeper - on par with physical releases (based only on snippets, it was streaming too slow to listen to the whole thing)
ronan.dec - gleiter - lacking bass, if that's not intentional, i'd call it subpar, other than that, can't comment cause dnb isn't really my thing...
Blakkar Noir - Flowers (suite) - didnt hear, was taking too long to dl
Mind Infinity - Third Eye - same as above
SonnyJim - Suck My Disc - mastering issues, aswell as beefs with the soundwork


you say these are in a way a collection of the best digital labels have to offer (as determined by you, utillising the assistance of others' 'top picks'), and 90% of them are indeed subpar (at least by my take), which would lead to assume either you are not the best of censurers, or the digiworld doesnt have that much to offer...

would be useful to know how much time you have spent browsing that patch of the sky in total, so we'd have some proportion and could determine the effectiveness of looking in the digilabels realm.

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