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-- Help me understand what happened to Trance...
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quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Deep, shallow, sophisticated, simple, crap......I don't care what you are. One thing you absolutely HAVE to learn is: brevity. jesus fucking christ.

you seem to critisise every little thing, chuck in a few anologies and you sound smart!!

Look at yourself....

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Oh, it most certainly did. But here's the clincher: The stupid shit knew it was stupid shit, and didn't try to be anything but. It didn't lie to itself. It was shameless in its greedy exploitation of wistful themes. And we enjoyed it for that stupid fact. No one said Sesame's Treat was genius, forward thinking music. It was stupid fluff. Most rave hardcore/happy hardcore was, and that's why we liked it. But even then, the stupid shit was tempered with great shit in equal quantities. Today: You have stupid shit that overwhelmingly dominates everything, to the point where I have not been to a trance party in 6 years because every DJ doesn't play any decent trance. Does that mean the music sucks, the DJs aren't good, or no one's really trying that hard? And secondly: Today's stupid shit doesn't think its stupid shit, as Spirit5 agressively tried to point out to us in this thread. And THAT is the real bone of contention here. I don't have a problem with what the music is. I have a problem with what the music pretends to be. In other words: I'm sick of this bullshit scene lying to me. I'm sick of magazines calling someone utilizing samples and loops to make a track in under an hour a genius. I'm sick of dishonest, cheap fucking facade music comparing itself to the legends of classical music, and I'm sick of stupid punters on these forums telling me that somebody playing someone elses music (or even playing his own pre-recorded music, doesn't matter) is some sort of fucking music God. I'm sick of the hype, I'm sick of the bombast, I'm sick of the smoke and mirrors, I'm sick of all the bullshit PR moves and marketing diarhea, I'm sick of 5'x5' sized diecut glossy flyers with the DJs name in 3000 pt. 3D glowing font with a rambling excuse of a declaration that he'll take me on some stupid journey. All I'm asking for is honesty and accountability. Sure, there was crap in the old days. But the existence of crap has never been the problem. It's when people take the crap and mistaken it for something good and lovely and precious to the point where they are humbled to have it at all.....that tends to fuck things up. Because when all people have been fed all their lives is crap......they will never assume there's anything better out there.

And with that, Lord Ishkur led the armies of fluff through the gates of Mordor to face their doom and the end of the ages.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur In other words: I'm sick of this bullshit scene lying to me. I'm sick of magazines calling someone utilizing samples and loops to make a track in under an hour a genius. I'm sick of dishonest, cheap fucking facade music comparing itself to the legends of classical music, and I'm sick of stupid punters on these forums telling me that somebody playing someone elses music (or even playing his own pre-recorded music, doesn't matter) is some sort of fucking music God. I'm sick of the hype, I'm sick of the bombast, I'm sick of the smoke and mirrors, I'm sick of all the bullshit PR moves and marketing diarhea, I'm sick of 5'x5' sized diecut glossy flyers with the DJs name in 3000 pt. 3D glowing font with a rambling excuse of a declaration that he'll take me on some stupid journey. All I'm asking for is honesty and accountability. Sure, there was crap in the old days. But the existence of crap has never been the problem. It's when people take the crap and mistaken it for something good and lovely and precious to the point where they are humbled to have it at all.....that tends to fuck things up. Because when all people have been fed all their lives is crap......they will never assume there's anything better out there.

I'm sick of you, i'm pretty sure a lot of other people are sick of you.........so why don't you fuck off?
Not easy is it, just won't happen.
That's why i've come to turms with having you around, that's life, get use to it.
Maybe you can stop whinging and moaning and do something about it.
I know it's cliche to say this, but what else are you gonna do, what you're doing now blatently isn't working.
I'm not saying you should do anything, but why would you moan and grizzle about something if it brings negativity?
That's not a rhetorical question i want you to answer.

quote:

Originally posted by Axolotyl I'd say listen to some psytrance if your after energetic trance, but for an epic trance lover it would be like frodo taking the ring into mordor, its dark and scary and the hippies will eat you alive. Besises its not the same as big fuckoff synth driven energy trance which is a different beast entirely.

So true about the hippies lol. Oh man. Sorry, but I just had to laugh, I'm not reading the rest of the thread. Lol.

the ratio of quantity over quality is huge, to listen to trance you need patience, A LOT OF patience

well try to find some logic in to this but trance is just evolving
and thats a good thing but some people dont like the sound of this time,
the truth is you can't want the same sound of years ago
because thats corny if you now what i mean
some tracks like (oceanlab-sirens of the sea and many others)
thats a great sound to me
finding one of those records is harder,i do not listen to that crap thats played on the radio now.
But your right in some ways because they are not spending as much time in making records as they did in the past.

quote:

Originally posted by Durrrtysouth Disco died because the rockers all bashed it and said it was "gay" music.

No. Music doesn't die because morons complain about it. Otherwise epic trance would be in it's well-deserved grave since long ago.

quote:

Originally posted by Camwin I'm sick of you, i'm pretty sure a lot of other people are sick of you.........so why don't you fuck off? Not easy is it, just won't happen. That's why i've come to turms with having you around, that's life, get use to it. Maybe you can stop whinging and moaning and do something about it. I know it's cliche to say this, but what else are you gonna do, what you're doing now blatently isn't working. I'm not saying you should do anything, but why would you moan and grizzle about something if it brings negativity? That's not a rhetorical question i want you to answer.

Seriously, why dont you just shut the fuck up?

Ishkur might be an elitist knob, but he and others like him are the counterbalance to the millions of meaningless threads that get posted everyday about...

OMFG>>> WHAT IS YOUR FAVOURITE FERRY CH00N?!? SHIT< PVD OR TIESTO>>!?THEY BOTH R000L

Instead... why dont you write something just as honest and meaningfull about why trance DOESNT suck at the moment instead of just telling people to fuck off because you dont like what they have to say?

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Cinos No. Music doesn't die because morons complain about it. Otherwise epic trance would be in it's well-deserved grave since long ago.

How about you fuck off to Outer Sphongolia so we don't have to listen to your constant and tired bullshit.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Cinos No. Music doesn't die because morons complain about it. Otherwise epic trance would be in it's well-deserved grave since long ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disco_Sucks

pointless i think

quote:

Originally posted by RickyM How about you fuck off to Outer Sphongolia so we don't have to listen to your constant and tired bullshit.

I bet your complaining will cause styles of music to die.

Re: Re: Help me understand what happened to Trance...

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt Yeah, you would be right. It's not a naive conclusion at all. Trance pretty much sucks right now; this has very little to do with taste, and much more do with the poor quality of trance today. In other words, it isn't that people have suddenly gotten tired of trance, it's that trance has a really low bar in the current market. Quality producers have either moved into other sounds, or lost their compass (Paul van Dyk, for example, who seems content with a shadow of his past ability). House has decisively taken back the mainfloors of the world, and that's where all the industry movement is right now. Sadly, I think it's going to be a while until some solid trance makes a return. I'd still go to see that Paul van Dyk show, but don't hold expectations you might get from 2000-02 livesets.

It's funny really cause Hardcore used to be really bad at production and now its amazing (it uses trance riffs) and Trance has somewhat slightly decaded.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Then don't call it trance, because the stuff you like isn't actually trance. Call it what it really is: Clown cheese.

it's trance. remove your head from those cloudy idealistic heavens of yours and admit, that realisitically, it's trance. if you want to buy it, you go to the trance section in any record store. if you want to discuss it, you come to a site like this, or trance.nu, or uktrancealliance, or any fucking forum with the word trance in it. if you play the new bryan kearny or sean tyas (so as to not pic obvious popular names) to any EDM fan then atleast 99% of the time they'd say it was trance, no matter whether they love it or loathe it. disliking one thing because you believe it to be a shadow of its former self is one thing. going to excessive lengths to deny what it really is for the same reason is nothing more than anal. it's a genre name for crying out loud, nothing more.

what strikes me as odd is how people like you & your band of worshippers (axolotyl et al) go to such godfucking desperate lengths to say trance isn't trance, when your target preaching audience come from a completely different musical background, like different stuff, crave different qualities in music & attend different parties to you. so if they disagree with you/ignore you, i really can't see how it affects you enough to warrant all the angst (maybe in 97/98 when the sound was initially changing but not 8/9 years down the line, jesus christ). if they agree with you and change their tastes based on your preaching, then well really they're sheep who aren't worth the time of day.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur By all means, if that's what makes you happy, go on listening to it. Just remember what it is, what it does, where its intentions lie, and why you like it so much.

this i can almost agree with. i'll happily admit that the trance i like is based around a beaten-to-death formula using rinsed out ideas, and that i like it so much because of what it does; provide instagratification (in more forms than one) without the bullshit. i think anyone who can't admit this is jaded, but nay matter, we agree on something.

the part i don't agree with (read: the part that is complete horse shit) is the part about music having 'intentions'. i argued something similar with dj intrigue not so long ago, who insisited that trance 'takes itself too seriously'... but by doing this surely it would have to be trying to do something in the first place, as if 'trance' were some kind of global all-encompassing manifestation that introduced itself to everyone in the same manor. it isn't, it's a fucking genre name used for categorising tunes (that brick wall is starting to cave), producers make it for their own reasons, listeners appreciate it for their own reasons.

quote:

You did not grow as a person to go it. It came to you. It opened your mouth with a vice and poured its cheesy, glowing tripe down your gullet, and with a bloated belly you screamed for more.

also horse shit. trance may be one of the most 'pop' forms of EDM about (ie, most mass marketed), but you'd be surprised how many of its fans got there after searching deeper beyond stuff that gets played on the radio. fair enough it may apply to someone new to the scene who attends a tiesto/armin concert after seeing it advertised, then continues to worship them as gods without looking beyond what's popular. but to assume all trance listeners are like this purely because of the nature of the music? utter tripe.

quote:

Originally posted by isoterra it's trance. remove your head from those cloudy idealistic heavens of yours and admit, that realisitically, it's trance. if you want to buy it, you go to the trance section in any record store. if you want to discuss it, you come to a site like this, or trance.nu, or uktrancealliance, or any fucking forum with the word trance in it. if you play the new bryan kearny or sean tyas (so as to not pic obvious popular names) to any EDM fan then atleast 99% of the time they'd say it was trance, no matter whether they love it or loathe it. disliking one thing because you believe it to be a shadow of its former self is one thing. going to excessive lengths to deny what it really is for the same reason is nothing more than anal. it's a genre name for crying out loud, nothing more.

You didn't get it.

quote:

what strikes me as odd is how people like you & your band of worshippers (axolotyl et al) go to such godfucking desperate lengths to say trance isn't trance, when your target preaching audience come from a completely different musical background, like different stuff, crave different qualities in music & attend different parties to you. so if they disagree with you/ignore you, i really can't see how it affects you enough to warrant all the angst (maybe in 97/98 when the sound was initially changing but not 8/9 years down the line, jesus christ). if they agree with you and change their tastes based on your preaching, then well really they're sheep who aren't worth the time of day.

Oh yeah...real godfucking desperate lengths...like taking 60 seconds to type a message on the internet...wow.

quote:

the part i don't agree with (read: the part that is complete horse shit) is the part about music having 'intentions'. i argued something similar with dj intrigue not so long ago, who insisited that trance 'takes itself too seriously'... but by doing this surely it would have to be trying to do something in the first place, as if 'trance' were some kind of global all-encompassing manifestation that introduced itself to everyone in the same manor. it isn't, it's a fucking genre name used for categorising tunes (that brick wall is starting to cave), producers make it for their own reasons, listeners appreciate it for their own reasons.

The pop machine transformed trance in order to accomodate those 'reasons'. When it did, the underlying intentions of the music changed from (what ishkur said about classic trance) to (what ishkur said about new trance). The evidence of this is stupid people who take trance too seriously by DJ worship and comparison to classical music and glossy flyers an blah blah blah all that stuff he said about it. Don't you pay attention?

quote:

also horse shit. trance may be one of the most 'pop' forms of EDM about (ie, most mass marketed), but you'd be surprised how many of its fans got there after searching deeper beyond stuff that gets played on the radio. fair enough it may apply to someone new to the scene who attends a tiesto/armin concert after seeing it advertised, then continues to worship them as gods without looking beyond what's popular. but to assume all trance listeners are like this purely because of the nature of the music? utter tripe.

Listeners are like that because that's the way they were born. People are born stupid, and remain that way unless they take action to remedy that fact. Most people don't take that action. The nature of the music changed to appeal to that. Try to at least think a little before you post...

Hi Radagast.

Bye Radagast.

wow, amazing how these topics are so cyclical.

I think that in some parts of the world, if you want to see a party, you have to be into pop music, because in many cities, pop music is the only game in town. Throwing your own gatherings isn't quite feasible when you can't even find 10 or so other people who ennoy those kinds of sounds. Pop music has its place I think, and there isn't any shame in enjoying it, people can't spend their entire lives alienated from the masses without going crazy. I think its fun when music challenges so many of the dominant paradigms, but if you go out there too far, your just gonna end up getting lonely, unless you are in a densely populated area where there are alot more people around so you can filter them out alot more narrowly.

This weekend is the first time an international dj will be in my home state instead of just passing though on a monday or wednesday or something, oakey on april fools day, andy moor on friday night before. An international trance weekend in the bible belt, something like this hasn't come to this state in many years. Other than poppy trance, there is obnoxious DnB every week, and that is it, no bleeding edge avant-garde, experimental, high art EDM to be found, one has to enjoy that type of stufff alone in front of a computer, because it sure as hell isn't gonna get played at any parties.

The closest thing to TAZ is the very odd occasion when a sound system will pass through in the sumer and have those little teknivals, the random house parties people will sometimes throw, and the one psy club up in the mountains. Those things dont happen nearly oftem enough for any person to sustain themselves only with those events.

In some parts of the world, crap is the only thing to eat, you kids who see noncommercial underground things happening weekly in your areas are just lucky, you can't insist that everyone follow those things because those things do not exist everywhere.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur And secondly: Today's stupid shit doesn't think its stupid shit

After reading several of your posts, I still have no idea where you come up with some of this self-righteous bullshit.

Over and over and over again, I read posts from you where you single out the trance genre (today) as some lesser form of music that refuses to accept its own inherent 'cheesyness'. How are you making this distinction? There are cheesy tracks in most, if not all genres if EDM. Yet somehow you always seem to come back to 'holier-than-thou' trance, the music that 'thinks' that it is better than everyone else.



Are you basing this on forum posts from 16-year-old n00bs who have just discovered dance music? Are you basing this on idiots that compare trance to classical music? Magazine articles? DJ interviews? People that proclaim Tiesto as some sort of musical genius?

Seriously, I am curious to learn how you have arrived at this assertion that trance music is somehow different from other genres in 'accepting' its cheesiness.

Ive seen him bash DnB pretty hard too. Trance gets most of the hate, but I've noticed him dishing it out to other styles of music as well.

Personally I would like to know how he feels about the really popular EDM things that actually get TV exposure in the US. Things like The Crystal Method, Prodigy, Chemical Prothers, Moby, Daft Punk, fatboy slim, and the like. Are they guilty of lying about themelves too, or are they admitting that they are crap, or are they actually good and deserve their hype and popularity?

quote:

Originally posted by Donkeyness

I like seeing you post. It's one of those pleasant reminders that the universe is still running on invisible lines. The speed of light. Planck's constant. The permitivity of free space. And Radagast still desperately thinking that if he hides any personal details and traces of himself, people won't notice that he's responsible for the same God-awful bullshit every time.

EDIT: And why even bother arguing with Ishkur? It's not as if he's ever actually took part in a meaningful debate on this subject in his life, and he's damned if he won't run away crying if you try.

I do it for fun personally, its always entertaining doing these big threads.

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 I do it for fun personally, its always entertaining doing these big threads.

Reading them is also always entertaining.

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. After reading several of your posts, I still have no idea where you come up with some of this self-righteous bullshit. Over and over and over again, I read posts from you where you single out the trance genre (today) as some lesser form of music that refuses to accept its own inherent 'cheesyness'. How are you making this distinction? There are cheesy tracks in most, if not all genres if EDM. Yet somehow you always seem to come back to 'holier-than-thou' trance, the music that 'thinks' that it is better than everyone else. Are you basing this on forum posts from 16-year-old n00bs who have just discovered dance music? Are you basing this on idiots that compare trance to classical music? Magazine articles? DJ interviews? People that proclaim Tiesto as some sort of musical genius? Seriously, I am curious to learn how you have arrived at this assertion that trance music is somehow different from other genres in 'accepting' its cheesiness.

I'd point out many of the same things. The crux of Ishkur's position is that trance takes itself too seriously, which is a pretty subjective claim, and difficult to evidence. I think in some cases he's right, especially with the new breed of epic producers, but he can't claim to know the "intent" behind all trance he's heard. The argument applies decently to bloated headliners, but there are so many TAs who essentially think the same thing. It quickly becomes indefensible outside a few easy targets.

As for taking itself too seriously as a style, damn, look at Ferry. He obviously doesn't think so, and he's one of the biggest, most commerical names around. Armin and Tiesto get loads and loads of abuse from TA members because they don't have the same attitude towards what they play.

I dont think the above and beyond show takes itself very seriously either, they are joking about stuff all the time on there, and the radio voice blurbs says things like "trance around the world, fun music, news, and stupid commentary!"

I mean, that doesnt sound like taking itself seriously, or claiming to be something its not, at least to me. So many of these trance musicians are really humble people when one meets them, they aren't acting like they are bigger than jesus, the promoters are more responsible for that I think.

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