TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Music Discussion
-- Trance: The Way It's Supposed To Be
Pages (11): « 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 11 »

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 This thread makes me happy, it descended into a philosophical semantic thing without me ever posting. I just got back from a crazy weekend. At that party they played both kinds. I don't remember who most of them were, but I'll see them again. I had so much fun, I dont care what that music was called, what it evolved out of, who made it or whether it sticks to the original intentions, fuck all of that.

this discussion is about defining what is trance to a certain extent. the fact that you can enjoy music regardless of it's name and/or classification is irrelevant.

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 Trance is supposed to be enjoyable repititions. There is compromise between repitition and engagement, trance requires both. Nobody is debating whether someting is repetitive or not (but there are some confusing patterns...). Enjoyable causes all the drama cuz ppl enjoy different stuff. Life wouldnt be interesting if we all enjoyed the same way. Repititions CAN'T entrance victims if they aren't engaged by them (but forced exposure to something for a long enough time will get engage people eventually, call it "trance abuse"). Like it or not people are engaged by epic sound, and that music does indeed contain some repititions. People get all upset because they dont think epic has enough, that's fine there are plenty of alternatives. Epic isn't unqualified for the term (IMO) because it is engaging and has some repitition.

it's unqualified for the term because it shares very little with the music the term was created for.

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 There is just no way to quantify repetition or engagement. With no measure people are left to argue, I don't see the point (yet I am still here typing out this reply that nobody will bother reading, maybe enjoy this site too much). How repetitive must trance be? How engaging? Should trance break repetitions for more engaging qualities or is it interesting enough already? These are the questions raised in this thread, it all depends the most subjective thing in the world, engagement.

yet it's obvious to everyone who have participated so far that 'epic trance' is bigger on engagement than it is on repetition, and that 'real trance' is bigger on repetition than it is on engagement. there has been relatively no argument regarding the facts, but of our interpretation of them - i currently believe there is a 'correct' interpretation.

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0915 I enjoy friendly crowds, loud music, open minds, all the noises we make, all the different feelings they cause. How can something so simple as an air shaking machine (with the occasional chemical suppliment) make so many different reactions? It is a fun thing to think about and experience in the company of friends, trance should be that, and it is, and it still happens, I overendulged myself on it this past saturday!

if that's what trance should be then a lot of things are trance, even outside of the realm of music.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J What the hell are you talking about?

it's not rocket science.

quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews So, according to this theory, which says, that the genre name is irrelevant and does not have any effect on the actual sound of the tracks (which are included in the genre), trance does not need to have any signs of the dictionary definition of the word "trance" and still can be labeled as trance.

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T if the origin of a genre classification is completely irrelavant to it's sound there's no reason not to call a britney spears tune progressive tribal trance, and there's no reason not to call a 2pac tune acid techno, and there's no reason not to call a paul van dyk tune country music.... and there's no reason to use genre names whatsoever. if this is what you strive for you have no business on this thread or on this board (as far as music is concerned).

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur ^^^ absolutely beautiful. Sounds like early Dance 2 Trance.

Sounds more like early Resistance D. Really early Resistance D.

quote:

Originally posted by RebeL9 well if trance music isn't hypnotic, enchanting, rhythmic then it more or less totally lost its meaning and therefor shouldn't have much to do with trance music.

And now we�re right back where we started.

A) If it is not hypnotic, enchanting etc. for you, how do you know it�s not for anyone else? Because you can�t know that, you can�t change or infirm the name of the genre in case it would affect other people than you.

B) If house is still house, even if it�s not played in Warehouse, then trance can be still trance, even if it�s not entrancing.

And if poetry can�t be translated, then art is something we can�t define. So speaking about definitions and music and trying to find some link between these two makes no sense.

quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews And now we�re right back where we started. A) If it is not hypnotic, enchanting etc. for you, how do you know it�s not for anyone else? Because you can�t know that, you can�t change or infirm the name of the genre in case it would affect other people than you. B) If house is still house, even if it�s not played in Warehouse, then trance can be still trance, even if it�s not entrancing. And if poetry can�t be translated, then art is something we can�t define. So speaking about definitions and music and trying to find some link between these two makes no sense.

you got this wrong. the reason trance is called trance is that it's meant to be hypnotic. It's essential. I'm not saying that every person may find the same tune hypnotic but it's an aspect of the tune which should be present. A huge amount of todays trance is mixed up with house, eurodance, pop etc so alot of the original elements have faded away. And then again they call it trance just because the word trance is cool and sells. I've seen this several times how labels name their CDs "Future Trance" etc and the content is Scooter, DJ Sammy etc. The kids on the schoolyard feel much cooler listening to "trance" than "dance". The word have been misused. And this got nothing to do with what A thinks is hypnotic contra what B thinks.
Do you get it now?

quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews And if poetry can�t be translated, then art is something we can�t define. So speaking about definitions and music and trying to find some link between these two makes no sense.

not that i know how you make that inference, but regardless, poetry can be and is translated.

Trance is more than music. Its a feeling, an emotion and pure bliss

Trance was meant to smell like a duck's anus. You see, the inventor of Trance, Mark Reeder, is from Germany. In case you didn't know, the national symbol of Germany is a duck's anus. So one day Mark decided on the spur of the moment to try and capture the essence of his national symbol. Thus Trance was created. But over time Trance started smelling less and less like a duck's anus and more like potpourri. By 1999 there was not a hint of anus to be found. And because stupid people like sweet smelling stuff more than not so sweet smelling stuff, they started listening to this potpourri Trance, and the real Trance was destroyed.

Remember, this is Trance the way it was meant to be:


This is fake trance:

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T not that i know how you make that inference, but regardless, poetry can be and is translated.

it can�t be properly. the one who tries to translate some poem has to use completely different words, completely different language trying to transform the whole feeling and meaning of it into a completely new product.

and it can�t be officially interpreted as well, as there are prolly hundreds and thousands of interpretations of one poem in the whole world. for someone using a "moon" in poetry can mean speaking about death, someone else connects "moon" with night etc, it just depends on the culture, on everyone of us - again, it�s subjective, it�s art, it�s the same thing as with music. you see it finally?

quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews it can�t be properly. the one who tries to translate some poem has to use completely different words, completely different language trying to transform the whole feeling and meaning of it into a completely new product. and it can�t be officially interpreted as well, as there are prolly hundreds and thousands of interpretations of one poem in the whole world. for someone using a "moon" in poetry can mean speaking about death, someone else connects "moon" with night etc, it just depends on the culture, on everyone of us - again, it�s subjective, it�s art, it�s the same thing as with music. you see it finally?

there's a word for moon in hebrew, it can have those very same connotations. there's no purpose to change the feeling and meaning of a poem in translation, the purpose is to recreate it in a different language. when a word has more than one meaning, it is optimistically translated into a word that has the same respective meanings, the most similiar word available.

it can't be officially interpreted? how about by the author himself? he can't do it either, right?...

quote:

Originally posted by RebeL9 you got this wrong. the reason trance is called trance is that it's meant to be hypnotic. It's essential.I'm not saying that every person may find the same tune hypnotic but it's an aspect of the tune which should be present.

again, what�s not hypnotic for you, may be hypnotic for anyone else, what�s not present for you, may be present for anyone else etc... wtf you even don�t know if the colour you call white does not look like "your" yellow for anyone else! just because people have agreed on some rules does not mean they can�t interpret them differently.

quote:

A huge amount of todays trance is mixed up with house, eurodance, pop etc so alot of the original elements have faded away. And then again they call it trance just because the word trance is cool and sells. I've seen this several times how labels name their CDs "Future Trance" etc and the content is Scooter, DJ Sammy etc. The kids on the schoolyard feel much cooler listening to "trance" than "dance". The word have been misused. And this got nothing to do with what A thinks is hypnotic contra what B thinks. Do you get it now?

now you�re talking not on topic. you even said that - this has nothing to do with what A thinks is hypnotic and so on.. cause if it was misused because of some marketing reasons, then the reason is pretty obvious and has nothing to do with the music itself. in this case, if the word "trance" is there to sell and nothing more then of course, it shouldn�t be connected with the music there. but that�s not what are we talking about here i believe.

quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews again, what�s not hypnotic for you, may be hypnotic for anyone else, what�s not present for you, may be present for anyone else etc... wtf you even don�t know if the colour you call white does not look like "your" yellow for anyone else! just because people have agreed on some rules does not mean they can�t interpret them differently.

regardless of whether the colour i call green is actually blue, if you live in our society, you'll call that same 'blue' green. people who do not conform to that standard have mental difficulties beyond visual perception.

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T there's a word for moon in hebrew, it can have those very same connotations. there's no purpose to change the feeling and meaning of a poem in translation, the purpose is to recreate it in a different language. when a word has more than one meaning, it is optimistically translated into a word that has the same respective meanings, the most similiar word available. it can't be officially interpreted? how about by the author himself? he can't do it either, right?...

But it is NOT officially interpreted, even not by the author! Because that would completely destroy the meaning of poetry, it would lose all the mystery and the very substance of it! Even if the author�s interpretation was published, then it can�t be considered as the only one and as the "right one"! Due all the cultural aspects that I have mentioned, there are many interpretations of one poem and none of them is more true then some other one

quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews But it is NOT officially interpreted, even not by the author! Because that would completely destroy the meaning of poetry, it would lose all the mystery and the very substance of it! Even if the author�s interpretation was published, then it can�t be considered as the only one and as the "right one"! Due all the cultural aspects that I have mentioned, there are many interpretations of one poem and none of them is more true then some other one

you're claiming here that the author does not know what he meant in his poem.

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T regardless of whether the colour i call green is actually blue, if you live in our society, you'll call that same 'blue' green. people who do not conform to that standard have mental difficulties beyond visual perception.

of course we call blue "blue", but that�s just because someone told you "this is blue", regardless of how you really see that. you can�t know if the one who told you does not see "blue" in the way you see "yellow"!

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Oh my goodness. Clowntrance. So you cut out a dozen or so aimless, idiotic 1+ minute long breakdowns ripped out of bombastic circus anthems, zipped them together and posted them under the guise of "how trance is supposed to be". Fucking hilarious. This is akin to Avril Levigne calling her debut album "the way punk is supposed to be." These tracks represent everything that's WRONG with trance today. The trite anthems. The predictable, boring, overly-long breakdowns. The rip-off pads and leads replicated in every track.

Seriously? I'll go as far as giving you these that fit the profile you lay out:
Paul Oakenfold - Hypnotised
24 - The Longest Day (Armin Van Buuren Remix)
Cern - The Message
Blank & Jones - Watching The Waves

but these....?

Modulation - Spirits (Slusnik Luna Remix) [2003]
Peres & Petersky - Hello Ladies [2005]
ATB - Marrakech (Revolution Mix) [2004]
L.S.G. - Netherworld (Oliver Prime Remix) [2005]
4 Strings - Turn It Around (Sandler Mix) [2004]
Kosmas Epsilon - Innocent Thoughts [2005]

I honestly don't hear what's wrong with the second set of tracks. You seem to exaggerate your claim of trite, boring, and overly predictable music in this case.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Something like this. Pure, unrelenting trance. No anthems. No breakdowns. No over-the-top, gratuitous melodies. No vocals. No pauses, breaks, or stopping whatsoever. No bullshit. Just trance.

Zzzz...
I anticipated a lot more substance prior to listening to that sample you posted especially from what you just posted above regarding my samples as dull. Instead what I heard was a boring monotonous snoozefest. That track did not grab me at all and do you honestly kid yourself into being entranced by such tripe? All I can conclude is that we're both passionate about trance in different ways.

Let me remind the rest of you that this is a subjective thread and its purpose is to learn about how people perceive trance and not its general/proper definition!

quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews of course we call blue "blue", but that�s just because someone told you "this is blue", regardless of how you really see that. you can�t know if the one who told you does not see "blue" in the way you see "yellow"!

ok, so i'm telling you A is hypnotic, B isn't. game over?

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T you're claiming here that the author does not know what he meant in his poem.

no.

okay, i�ll put it this way: the author uses a word "cross" in his poem trying to imply the Christ�s crucifix. then the poem is read by someone who has never heard of Christ, is untouched by the christian civilization and in his culture, cross is a synonym to war. and now, the poem can get a completely different meaning now, just because the reader lives in a completely different society!

quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews no. okay, i�ll put it this way: the author uses a word "cross" in his poem trying to imply the Christ�s crucifix. then the poem is read by someone who has never heard of Christ, is untouched by the christian civilization and in his culture, cross is a synonym to war. and now, the poem can get a completely different meaning now, just because the reader lives in a completely different society!

but it's not the correct meaning.

Re: Trance: The Way It's Supposed To Be

Definetly not like the majority of music played out in clubs today that is called "trance." You see, the problem is, as with any genre of music, once it becomes mainstream, the quality of the music is seriously compromised for mass appeal and/or sales. Back in "the day" there were far fewer producers/DJs of trance. The music wasn't profitable and it certainly wouldn't make you famous. Their motivations for being involved in producing/mixing didn't take factors such as fame or money in to account (unless one happens to be seriously out of touch with reality). Near the late 90s/early 2000s, that all changed. Trance (mostly epic/prog trance) became popular, and hence, profitable. And that's when things went down hill, and alot of us, who loved trance, for the most part, stopped paying attention to it. People who are familiar with what trance was and is now know what I'm talking about, hence all the "trance is dead" threads. I'm not saying there isn't any good trance out there anymore, it's just hard as hell to find considering how much crap there is out there. It takes alot of effort which most "veterans" aren't willing to make. I mean seriously, it a very time consuming and draining process. Most of us have other priorities and things to take care of.

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T but it's not the correct meaning.

poetry is not meant to be correct!

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T ok, so i'm telling you A is hypnotic, B isn't. game over?

no, because someone else has already told me it�s the other way round.

quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews poetry is not meant to be correct!

says who?

quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews no, because someone else has already told me it�s the other way round.

well then we have some dissonance here between what you were already told and the opinion of the vast majority who have posted in this thread, so let's just standardize it for the future: A is more hypnotic than B. game over?

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T says who?

I do. Exactly in the same way as you claim todays trance is no more hypnotic and that is meant to be.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.