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-- Dangers of ecstasy
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quote:

Originally posted by Slylee can your body make up for that lost seratoning without the use of drugs or anti-depressants?

Yep, a healthy varied diet, including foods which stimulate the production of seratonin (banana, honey, cinnamon, etc), exercise, generally leading a healthy life and pre and post loading with 5-htp, Vit C and such can counterbalance the effects of moderate and infrequent use.

Still helps soften the blow of regular use too.

quote:

Originally posted by Slylee ok but pure mdma triggers your body to release it's own supply of seratonin in large amounts correct? so if you are doing that every weekend, you're going to eventually screw up your body's chemistry and levels of seratonin right, thus causing depression? can your body make up for that lost seratoning without the use of drugs or anti-depressants?

Well, the problem mostly arises from the oxidative stress MDMA puts on your brain (which is probably mostly caused by dopamine hopping on to serotonin re-uptake transporters and entering serotonergic terminals, then breaking down inside the neuron). The brain starts synthesizing up serotonin like it's going out of fashion, during which free radicals (oxidative molecules like hydroxyls) caused by MAOB metabolism attack the enzymes that the body uses to create more serotonin, as well as the axon terminal at the end of the neuron. The axon tends to be where the more permanent damage is located in the case of neurotoxicity. So by the time you come down on your roll, your brain has not only lost the ability to manufacture serotonin through enzymatic inactivation, but also for the serotonin to work effective because the receptors on the axon for serotonin to bind to are damaged. This is all do to free radicals.

There are ways to fight free radicals to probably reduce damage. My recommendation for a regimen is as follows:
-1 hours
Vitamin C - 1000 mg
Alpha Lipoic Acid - 500 mg
Green Tea Extract - 1 capsule
Co-Enzyme Q10 - 100mg

+1.5 hours
5HTP - 250mg (The reason the 5HTP is taken now and not beforehand is because levels of 5HTP don't actually start dropping until you're well into your roll. The reduction in 5HTP (and subsequently serotonin) is do to the inactivation of the enzyme that converts tryptophan to 5HTP naturally in your brain by free radicals, which in all hope the preload should be taking care of anyway)

+5 hours
Vitamin C - 1000 mg
Alpha Lipoic Acid - 500 mg
Green Tea Extract - 1 capsule
Co-Enzyme Q10 - 100mg
5HTP - 500mg

+12 hours
Vitamin C - 1000 mg
Alpha Lipoic Acid - 500 mg
Green Tea Extract - 1 capsule
Co-Enzyme Q10 - 100mg
5HTP - 250mg

+20 hours
Vitamin C - 1000 mg
Alpha Lipoic Acid - 500 mg
Green Tea Extract - 1 capsule
Co-Enzyme Q10 - 100mg
5HTP - 250mg

Then the same antioxidant mix daily for the next few days. This should theoretically heavily cut down on the (likely permanent if not prevented!) neurotoxicity induced by MDMA.

edit: scratch the lutein, i forgot that was progesterone which might cause mood swings and which probably is mucked up by first pass metabolism anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by Lephaid Well, the problem mostly arises from the oxidative stress MDMA puts on your brain (which is probably mostly caused by dopamine hopping on to serotonin re-uptake transporters and entering serotonergic terminals, then breaking down inside the neuron). The brain starts synthesizing up serotonin like it's going out of fashion, during which free radicals (oxidative molecules like hydroxyls) caused by MAOB metabolism attack the enzymes that the body uses to create more serotonin, as well as the axon terminal at the end of the neuron. The axon tends to be where the more permanent damage is located in the case of neurotoxicity. So by the time you come down on your roll, your brain has not only lost the ability to manufacture serotonin through enzymatic inactivation, but also for the serotonin to work effective because the receptors on the axon for serotonin to bind to are damaged. This is all do to free radicals. There are ways to fight free radicals to probably reduce damage. My recommendation for a regimen is as follows: -1 hours Vitamin C - 1000 mg Alpha Lipoic Acid - 500 mg Green Tea Extract - 1 capsule Co-Enzyme Q10 - 100mg Lutein - 20mg +1.5 hours 5HTP - 250mg (The reason the 5HTP is taken now and not beforehand is because levels of 5HTP don't actually start dropping until you're well into your roll. The reduction in 5HTP (and subsequently serotonin) is do to the inactivation of the enzyme that converts tryptophan to 5HTP naturally in your brain by free radicals, which in all hope the preload should be taking care of anyway) +5 hours Vitamin C - 1000 mg Alpha Lipoic Acid - 500 mg Green Tea Extract - 1 capsule Co-Enzyme Q10 - 100mg Lutein - 20mg 5HTP - 500mg +12 hours Vitamin C - 1000 mg Alpha Lipoic Acid - 500 mg Green Tea Extract - 1 capsule Co-Enzyme Q10 - 100mg Lutein - 20mg 5HTP - 250mg +20 hours Vitamin C - 1000 mg Alpha Lipoic Acid - 500 mg Green Tea Extract - 1 capsule Co-Enzyme Q10 - 100mg Lutein - 20mg 5HTP - 250mg Then the same antioxidant mix daily for the next few days. This should theoretically heavily cut down on the (likely permanent if not prevented!) neurotoxicity induced by MDMA.

jesus christ, i think i'll have a few cocktails instead and call it a night. lol

then i'll wake up with a mild hangover and head for breakfast on the beach while the rest of you crackheads are still up, hating life and trying to either fall asleep, or score more drugs

I use to think ecstasy was bad for you until I saw the late Peter Jennings report on it. Here's the report in a nutshell:

Pure ecstasy is not bad for you. Today's ecstasy is horrible because it's often laced with other chemicals that do pose a threat to your health. Also, the U.S. government falsified reports about it damaging the brain when in fact it does no such thing. The reason they ban its use is because they can't make any money off of it. Last but not least too much of something isn't good for you and that goes for pure ecstasy as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Slylee jesus christ, i think i'll have a few cocktails instead and call it a night. lol then i'll wake up with a mild hangover and head for breakfast on the beach while the rest of you crackheads are still up, hating life and trying to either fall asleep, or score more drugs

What ever floats your boat in your little world, I see the US government has a successfully brainwashed citizen in you...man alcoholics are sooo negative. BTW binge drinknig also isn't healthy on your liver either.

AND thats the yay users that will still be up hating life , a dose of MDMA that ISN'T cut with any yuckie amphetamines, will have you sleeping like a baby after 4-5 hours and be nicely refreshed in the AM! Get a marquis tester for E, if that sucker turns orange don't take it unless you want to be tweeking and not sleeping!!

quote:

Originally posted by sugardevill What ever floats your boat in your little world, I see the US government has a successfully brainwashed citizen in you...man alcoholics are sooo negative. BTW binge drinknig also isn't healthy on your liver either. AND thats the yay users that will still be up hating life , a dose of MDMA that ISN'T cut with any yuckie amphetamines, will have you sleeping like a baby after 4-5 hours and be nicely refreshed in the AM! Get a marquis tester for E, if that sucker turns orange don't take it unless you want to be tweeking and not sleeping!!

ahh, a "smart drug user"...whew! there is a god.


by the way, i think you're having trouble reading. i said i'd rather have "a few cocktails and wake up with a mild hangover". i really dont think that qualifies me as an alcoholic or a "binge drinker"...especially considering the fact that i hardly go out and drink any more.



" "

Let's just put it this way, if you use ecstacy, you take somewhat of a risk, but there is alot you can do to minimize it.


There I put it in one sentence.

quote:

Originally posted by Slylee ahh, a "smart drug user"...whew! there is a god. by the way, i think you're having trouble reading. i said i'd rather have "a few cocktails and wake up with a mild hangover". i really dont think that qualifies me as an alcoholic or a "binge drinker"...especially considering the fact that i hardly go out and drink any more. " "

and E use doesn't qualify us as crackheads as you put it.
no I think your having trouble noticing that I was being sarcastic in the first place, and what kind of pussy has "a few cocktails and wakes up with a mild hangover" pphhhht lightweight


next time I'll post WARNING...BLATANT SARCASM so you'll get the idea next time ok hun!

either way trying to explain things to you is like banging my head into the wall, your obviously biased in opinion, brainwashed, and naive. I respect your decision against drug use, but I might aswell be speaking to George W. Bush himself on this issue.

E is fun.

quote:

Originally posted by Lephaid Well, the problem mostly arises from the oxidative stress MDMA puts on your brain (which is probably mostly caused by dopamine hopping on to serotonin re-uptake transporters and entering serotonergic terminals, then breaking down inside the neuron). The brain starts synthesizing up serotonin like it's going out of fashion, during which free radicals (oxidative molecules like hydroxyls) caused by MAOB metabolism attack the enzymes that the body uses to create more serotonin, as well as the axon terminal at the end of the neuron. The axon tends to be where the more permanent damage is located in the case of neurotoxicity. So by the time you come down on your roll, your brain has not only lost the ability to manufacture serotonin through enzymatic inactivation, but also for the serotonin to work effective because the receptors on the axon for serotonin to bind to are damaged. This is all do to free radicals. There are ways to fight free radicals to probably reduce damage. My recommendation for a regimen is as follows: -1 hours Vitamin C - 1000 mg Alpha Lipoic Acid - 500 mg Green Tea Extract - 1 capsule Co-Enzyme Q10 - 100mg +1.5 hours 5HTP - 250mg (The reason the 5HTP is taken now and not beforehand is because levels of 5HTP don't actually start dropping until you're well into your roll. The reduction in 5HTP (and subsequently serotonin) is do to the inactivation of the enzyme that converts tryptophan to 5HTP naturally in your brain by free radicals, which in all hope the preload should be taking care of anyway) +5 hours Vitamin C - 1000 mg Alpha Lipoic Acid - 500 mg Green Tea Extract - 1 capsule Co-Enzyme Q10 - 100mg 5HTP - 500mg +12 hours Vitamin C - 1000 mg Alpha Lipoic Acid - 500 mg Green Tea Extract - 1 capsule Co-Enzyme Q10 - 100mg 5HTP - 250mg +20 hours Vitamin C - 1000 mg Alpha Lipoic Acid - 500 mg Green Tea Extract - 1 capsule Co-Enzyme Q10 - 100mg 5HTP - 250mg Then the same antioxidant mix daily for the next few days. This should theoretically heavily cut down on the (likely permanent if not prevented!) neurotoxicity induced by MDMA. edit: scratch the lutein, i forgot that was progesterone which might cause mood swings and which probably is mucked up by first pass metabolism anyway.

It is a known fact that if u take 5htp the day of or during ur roll, u will feel like SHIT... only take it after u come down and 100mg


i know this from personaly experiance DO NOT TAKE 5htp and MDMA at the same time

quote:

Originally posted by sugardevill and E use doesn't qualify us as crackheads as you put it. no I think your having trouble noticing that I was being sarcastic in the first place, and what kind of pussy has "a few cocktails and wakes up with a mild hangover" pphhhht lightweight next time I'll post WARNING...BLATANT SARCASM so you'll get the idea next time ok hun! either way trying to explain things to you is like banging my head into the wall, your obviously biased in opinion, brainwashed, and naive. I respect your decision against drug use, but I might aswell be speaking to George W. Bush himself on this issue.

what are you talking about? i used to be the biggest cokehead/e-tard on this whole entire forum, and everyone knows that, except you i guess, so i'll excuse your ignorance. am i the only one here who admits to being stupid though for being a complete druggie at one point in my life, instead of making excuses and trying to justify it like i was this smart drug user?

i started off with the whole "moderation" bullshit...doing it like once in a blue moon, and then the habit crept up on me and then thankfully i was able to step outside myself and realize what a retard i was being and how irresponsible i was being with my body. the shit just got old for me with the same damn people and the same bullshit every weekend...those people i got fucked up with weren't my "friends" at all. that was the real kicker for me once i stopped doing them. hahah i went from a ton of friends to like 2.

so i just wish others would stop being in such denial. i'm talking about the regular partiers who take drugs on a regular basis and sit there and act like they are responsible or whatever. you're always taking a risk with drugs, that's the bottom line and the only point i was trying to make. i still hang out with ppl who do drugs and that's fine with me, it's their choice. i even popped a roll for old times sake during WMC with a few TA's and i had a shitty comedown and it pretty much served as a reminder of why i stopped doing it in the first place.

and sorry, i dont like to get plastered on alcohol any more either because the older and wiser i get, the more i realize that i dont want to look like some washed out 40 something year old piece of leather who smoked and drank and laid out in the sun my whole life. i am more about taking care of my body and skin now because it's more impoortant to me than getting fucked up. i'm pretty sure that's called being a smart adult for once in my life.

You used to be fun. What happened?

You're right, I don't know your past habits or lifestyle. I based my comments on what was laid out before me.


Also, I'm not a regular partier either, I barely drink, I don't smoke, I work out regularly. BUT when people choose to believe facts from testing that are funded by biased governments thats when I have to laugh. What also makes a difference is if the person using any sort of substance has an addictive personality to begin with. This will be one of the deciding factors as to what level the drug use will escalate to. The are steps you can do to lower a potential risk, but the risk will always be there regardless. I've been using E since I was 17, on a non frequent basis. I use this so moderately that being in denial is not even an issue. Like I said I respect your decision.

quote:

Originally posted by _EuG_ It is a known fact that if u take 5htp the day of or during ur roll, u will feel like SHIT... only take it after u come down and 100mg i know this from personaly experiance DO NOT TAKE 5htp and MDMA at the same time

I don't have a problem with it. If you take it about 1.5-2 hours into your roll, it should in theory extend the effects of your peak a little without increasing the amount of oxidative load on your neurons (unlike the tradition 40 or so mg supplement which does increase the amount of stress on your brain). I do agree it should not be taken beforehand (unless you really know what you're doing), as it tends to potentiate MDMA quite a bit. This is all from my personal experience.

quote:

Originally posted by Lephaid I don't have a problem with it. If you take it about 1.5-2 hours into your roll, it should in theory extend the effects of your peak a little without increasing the amount of oxidative load on your neurons (unlike the tradition 40 or so mg supplement which does increase the amount of stress on your brain). I do agree it should not be taken beforehand (unless you really know what you're doing), as it tends to potentiate MDMA quite a bit. This is all from my personal experience.

ohh it DOES extent ur peak... but in a bad way

u feel ill in ur stomach, u get crazy jaw clenching and other negetive effects which i cant remember

quote:

Originally posted by lex400sc the biggest danger in ecstacy is making bad djs sound good

Ok thats hilarious because its true.

quote:

Originally posted by stevieboy32808 I use to think ecstasy was bad for you until I saw the late Peter Jennings report on it. Here's the report in a nutshell: Pure ecstasy is not bad for you. Today's ecstasy is horrible because it's often laced with other chemicals that do pose a threat to your health. Also, the U.S. government falsified reports about it damaging the brain when in fact it does no such thing. The reason they ban its use is because they can't make any money off of it. Last but not least too much of something isn't good for you and that goes for pure ecstasy as well.

UPDATE: I found the report and just wanted to share it with you guys. This should clear up any misconception about the drug.

quote:

Originally posted by Lephaid Well, the problem mostly arises from the oxidative stress MDMA puts on your brain (which is probably mostly caused by dopamine hopping on to serotonin re-uptake transporters and entering serotonergic terminals, then breaking down inside the neuron). The brain starts synthesizing up serotonin like it's going out of fashion, during which free radicals (oxidative molecules like hydroxyls) caused by MAOB metabolism attack the enzymes that the body uses to create more serotonin, as well as the axon terminal at the end of the neuron. The axon tends to be where the more permanent damage is located in the case of neurotoxicity. So by the time you come down on your roll, your brain has not only lost the ability to manufacture serotonin through enzymatic inactivation, but also for the serotonin to work effective because the receptors on the axon for serotonin to bind to are damaged. This is all do to free radicals. There are ways to fight free radicals to probably reduce damage. My recommendation for a regimen is as follows: -1 hours Vitamin C - 1000 mg Alpha Lipoic Acid - 500 mg Green Tea Extract - 1 capsule Co-Enzyme Q10 - 100mg +1.5 hours 5HTP - 250mg (The reason the 5HTP is taken now and not beforehand is because levels of 5HTP don't actually start dropping until you're well into your roll. The reduction in 5HTP (and subsequently serotonin) is do to the inactivation of the enzyme that converts tryptophan to 5HTP naturally in your brain by free radicals, which in all hope the preload should be taking care of anyway) +5 hours Vitamin C - 1000 mg Alpha Lipoic Acid - 500 mg Green Tea Extract - 1 capsule Co-Enzyme Q10 - 100mg 5HTP - 500mg +12 hours Vitamin C - 1000 mg Alpha Lipoic Acid - 500 mg Green Tea Extract - 1 capsule Co-Enzyme Q10 - 100mg 5HTP - 250mg +20 hours Vitamin C - 1000 mg Alpha Lipoic Acid - 500 mg Green Tea Extract - 1 capsule Co-Enzyme Q10 - 100mg 5HTP - 250mg Then the same antioxidant mix daily for the next few days. This should theoretically heavily cut down on the (likely permanent if not prevented!) neurotoxicity induced by MDMA. edit: scratch the lutein, i forgot that was progesterone which might cause mood swings and which probably is mucked up by first pass metabolism anyway.

lol, who the fuck goes through all this trouble just because they're dropping some E? fucking ridiculous, if you're going to do all this shit you shouldn't even be rolling in the first place.

If you lose your mind what else do you have? Heh.. Plenty of people probably said the same thing about seatbelts when they first came out.

i guess the comedown varies with people, ive never gotten depression...and my only remedy after E is weed.

quote:

Originally posted by UWM You used to be fun. What happened?

yea you used to be fun when i was fun too.

quote:

Originally posted by lex400sc the biggest danger in ecstacy is making bad djs sound good

lol

quote:

Originally posted by _EuG_ ohh it DOES extent ur peak... but in a bad way u feel ill in ur stomach, u get crazy jaw clenching and other negetive effects which i cant remember

I think you are in the minority there, I've not and not known anyone to have those issues with 5htp.

I do know that taking large quantities the same day as you plan to roll will numb your high a fair bit, as your serotonin receptors aren't so good on the uptake when you've kickstarted the production of more.

Or something.

quote:

Originally posted by stevieboy32808 UPDATE: I found the report and just wanted to share it with you guys. This should clear up any misconception about the drug.

thanks for the report. i found it pretty interesting

quote:

Originally posted by kr00t0n I think you are in the minority there, I've not and not known anyone to have those issues with 5htp. I do know that taking large quantities the same day as you plan to roll will numb your high a fair bit, as your serotonin receptors aren't so good on the uptake when you've kickstarted the production of more. Or something.

It's probably just that your neurons become desensitized to serotonin as 5HTP floods your brain with it, just like SSRIs like Paxil or Zoloft. One of my friends on SSRIs needs 4 or 5 pills to roll, and she has no tolerance.

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