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As I said, I don't necessarily believe this, but I would like to hear/see some factual, logical evidence that explains how the 7th building collapsed, and why the government refused to release video of the plane hit on the Pentagon.

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Originally posted by Theresa As I said, I don't necessarily believe this, but I would like to hear/see some factual, logical evidence that explains how the 7th building collapsed, and why the government refused to release video of the plane hit on the Pentagon.

You're asking too many questions. You must be a terrorist!

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Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike So can being so blatently naive.

Yea, like the millions of Americans who believe/d that we actually started this war because of WMD, which have yet to be found, and has been admitted by the president himself as a mistake.

Seems interesting to me that a government that wouldn't really think twice about lying to their citizens to have them do what they want, would be so generously trusted without question by its people.

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Originally posted by Swamper You're asking too many questions. You must be a terrorist!

I see very many questions asked and virtually no responses when said questions are 'answered'. What's the point really when there's no reciprocity?

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Originally posted by occrider I see very many questions asked and virtually no responses when said questions are 'answered'. What's the point really when there's no reciprocity?

It continues to become more and more odd to me that EVERYONE and their fricken dog can dispute the "conspiracy" theories, but no one is able to confirm what is considered the "truth" with some solid evidence and proof.

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Originally posted by Theresa As I said, I don't necessarily believe this, but I would like to hear/see some factual, logical evidence that explains how the 7th building collapsed, and why the government refused to release video of the plane hit on the Pentagon.

oh christ.

this docoumentary is full of half truths and lies.

"pull" is NOT a term demolition people use for the destruction of buildings. it is a typical half-truth CTs love to propogate. its a term used when connecting a wire to a building when bringing it down.

WTC7 caught a significant amount of debris from the collapse of 1 and or 2, it had a hole 20-30 stories high, much of it on fire, and burned for over 5 hours. the fire department decided not to fight the fire sometime on the day, because it just wasnt safe to do so. they all knew it was going to come down, it was making noises and there was a bulge in the building.

the guy that insured his buildings, is out of pocket hundreds of millions of dollars because of what its costing him to rebuild. he didnt gain anything. its another bit of bullshit thrown in for good measure by the CTs.

youve really gotta be more discerning or at least check out sites that provide facts and evidence instead of doubt and questions.

debunking 9/11 is a great place to start.

i mean, for fuck sake. this stupid bitch of a narrator is dismissing all the eye witness testimony from the fucking fire brigade when she talks about how much fire building 7 had. fuck.

the structures 1-6 that theyre talking about didnt catch fire. thats why they didnt fall down.

comparing these buildings to any other buildings & incidents is completely disingenuous. dont listen to people that compare these collapses to any other incident in history, it hasnt happened before, by any stretch of the imagination. more bullshit.

it didnt fall neatly. it fell to the south. it fell the way they expected based on where the damage and fires were.

alex jones isnt an expert in anything related to structural engineering and his work is thoroughly rejected by the world's engineers.

it took building 7 a lot longer than 6 seconds to fall. its more like 14. another clever video edit by the crazy people.

this is what a fucking demolition looks like.



jones is an idiot.

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Originally posted by Theresa It continues to become more and more odd to me that EVERYONE and their fricken dog can dispute the "conspiracy" theories, but no one is able to confirm what is considered the "truth" with some solid evidence and proof.

Yea ok. There's a proven way to get around this "issue". Let's get into specifics. What do you have a problem with? And don't just say WTC 7 ... I would like for you to be very detailed in your analysis. That way we have a clear way of addressing your unique concerns. And please don't cut and paste without understanding what it is you're cutting and pasting ... that way if somebody asks you questions you'll know what you're talking about enough to respond in a reasonable manner.

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Originally posted by occrider Yea ok. There's a proven way to get around this "issue". Let's get into specifics. What do you have a problem with? And don't just say WTC 7 ... I would like for you to be very detailed in your analysis. That way we have a clear way of addressing your unique concerns. And please don't cut and paste without understanding what it is you're cutting and pasting ... that way if somebody asks you questions you'll know what you're talking about enough to respond in a reasonable manner.

LOL, well to be honest with you, that's the thing, I don't know a lot, and that's why I am asking. A lot of things seem strange to me, and I have been reading a lot of "debunking" stuff, as well as "theories" so I am confused.

Why wont the government release their video surveillance of the attack on the Pentagon? Why wouldn't they prove their innocence?

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Originally posted by Theresa Why wont the government release their video surveillance of the attack on the Pentagon? Why wouldn't they prove their innocence?

the only people that need the video proof are the ones that dismiss all the other evidence i mean, isnt the fact that all the people from flight 77 have disappeared proof enough?

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN the only people that need the video proof are the ones that dismiss all the other evidence i mean, isnt the fact that all the people from flight 77 have disappeared proof enough?

No.

It doesn't take much effort to "eliminate" or falsify a group of people. Where is the substantial evidence?

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY wont they release the videos?? What are they trying to hide?

Why aren't the families of the victims demanding to see those videos? Isn't it their right, and the right of the nation to see the proof that they have?

Is it ethically sound to withhold videos of an attack on the Pentagon when there are so many people who were directly affected for the rest of their lives because of it? When there are so many people who have lost faith in their country because of it?

Why wouldn't they release the video to strengthen the nations belief in them? Does it really make sense to abstain from releasing the videos when it only looks bad on the gov't?

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Originally posted by Theresa No. It doesn't take much effort to "eliminate" or falsify a group of people.

oh come now. a plane with passengers, that had puchased their tickets, been checked onto the plane by staff, head-counted etc could be falsified? how would that ever hold up under examination by ANYONE?

so, they kidnap the flight full of people (people with mobile phones and everything) take them to a secret base, shoot all the people and hide the plane, then fire a missile at the pentagon, and before anyone
gets there sprinkle pieces of destroyed aircraft all over the place?

i mean, seriously

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Originally posted by Theresa Where is the substantial evidence?

all the bodies & personal effects that were recovered at the crash site. by the numerous pieces of plane debris found in and around the pentagon. the fact that there were HUNDREDS of witnesses, including a reporter that were in traffic when the plane flew a short distance above the ground above them. by the lamp posts that were knocked down by the flight path of the plane into the building.

thats enough for me.

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Originally posted by Theresa LOL, well to be honest with you, that's the thing, I don't know a lot, and that's why I am asking. A lot of things seem strange to me, and I have been reading a lot of "debunking" stuff, as well as "theories" so I am confused. Why wont the government release their video surveillance of the attack on the Pentagon? Why wouldn't they prove their innocence?

Like the Citgo video? Yea that's been released.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/5965.shtml

Making inferences based upon one-sided or incomplete data is a classic logical fallacy. For example, if you choose to excercise your 5th amendment rights to remain silent you "must be guilty." If you take offense to increased civil rights surveillance violations you "must be hiding an illegal activity" (otherwise you wouldn't care right?). These are all inferences that are not supported by the data. I would caution you from drawing unsubstantiated conclusions from what evidence you do or do not see.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN oh come now. a plane with passengers, that had puchased their tickets, been checked onto the plane by staff, head-counted etc could be falsified? how would that ever hold up under examination by ANYONE? so, they kidnap the flight full of people (people with mobile phones and everything) take them to a secret base, shoot all the people and hide the plane, then fire a missile at the pentagon, and before anyone gets there sprinkle pieces of destroyed aircraft all over the place? i mean, seriously all the bodies & personal effects that were recovered at the crash site. by the numerous pieces of plane debris found in and around the pentagon. the fact that there were HUNDREDS of witnesses, including a reporter that were in traffic when the plane flew a short distance above the ground above them. by the lamp posts that were knocked down by the flight path of the plane into the building. thats enough for me.

I'm not questioning whether the plane actually hit it or not, I want to know why they wont release the video.

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Originally posted by Theresa I'm not questioning whether the plane actually hit it or not, I want to know why they wont release the video.

who says they have a better video than whats already been shown? ive seen this claimed over and over but its never been substantiated as far as i am aware.

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Originally posted by occrider Like the Citgo video? Yea that's been released. http://www.judicialwatch.org/5965.shtml Making inferences based upon one-sided or incomplete data is a classic logical fallacy. For example, if you choose to excercise your 5th amendment rights to remain silent you "must be guilty." If you take offense to increased civil rights surveillance violations you "must be hiding an illegal activity" (otherwise you wouldn't care right?). These are all inferences that are not supported by the data. I would caution you from drawing unsubstantiated conclusions from what evidence you do or do not see.

That video is dated wrong, was released 5 years after the attack, was almost impossible to decipher details, and quite possibly could have been taken from pretty much any convenience store.

If the government was trying to hide something, you don't think they would make the effort to be sure it wasn't revealed?

Talk about naivete... why did the government IMMEDIATELY confiscate the video afterward?

P.S. You are making the conclusion that I am making a conclusion. I'm not.

I am simply asking why they choose not to reveal video that could quite possibly restore the nations faith in their leaders, that could settle millions of minds. What is the gain for them not to show it? What is the loss to show it?

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN who says they have a better video than whats already been shown? ive seen this claimed over and over but its never been substantiated as far as i am aware.

You honestly don't think that a government building with hundreds of surveillance cameras all over the property doesn't have better video than the 5 FRAMES they released?

5 Frames of which did not show anything beside the explosion.

If they have 5 frames, there is DEFINITELY more. Why wont they show us anything else?

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Originally posted by Theresa You honestly don't think that a government building with hundreds of surveillance cameras all over the property doesn't have better video than the 5 FRAMES they released? 5 Frames of which did not show anything beside the explosion. If they have 5 frames, there is DEFINITELY more. Why wont they show us anything else?

how do you know? youre making an assumption about the video surveillance and video in general. why would they have a video pointing up and into the sky on that particular angle? considering where the plane came from and the fact that the surveillance from the front gate seemed pretty average (in terms of frame rate) why do you automatically ASSUME theres better video out there?

now, even assuming there is, what could POSSIBLY be on that tape that the government wouldnt want anyone to see? a plane flying into the pentagon- do you think we're gonna see a freeze-frame of one of bush's cronies behind the stick or something? theres nothing that could possibly be in that video that could hurt the government unless theres a video of a missile, which it clearly wasnt.

you cant just ask "why wont they show the video" without having some kind of idea what you think MIGHT be there. answering "i dont know" isnt a very good response.

[sarcasm]Bah who cares anymore. [/sarcasm]

Let history teach us the lesson that we never learn from history.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN how do you know? youre making an assumption about the video surveillance and video in general. why would they have a video pointing up and into the sky on that particular angle? considering where the plane came from and the fact that the surveillance from the front gate seemed pretty average (in terms of frame rate) why do you automatically ASSUME theres better video out there? now, even assuming there is, what could POSSIBLY be on that tape that the government wouldnt want anyone to see? a plane flying into the pentagon- do you think we're gonna see a freeze-frame of one of bush's cronies behind the stick or something? theres nothing that could possibly be in that video that could hurt the government unless theres a video of a missile, which it clearly wasnt. you cant just ask "why wont they show the video" without having some kind of idea what you think MIGHT be there. answering "i dont know" isnt a very good response.

That's completely untrue. You don't need to make assumptions to ask "why". That is a ridiculous notion. "I don't know" is the reason why human beings started asking "why" in the first place.

As I said;
100's of video surveillance cameras
5 frames released, all of which show nothing of relevance
confiscated gas station video

Does it seem realistic to you that there is NOTHING else beside those 5 frames? Which by the way, they released after denying having ANY video capture at all, proving they lied initially.

Why are you so willing to accept what you have been told, with the bare minimum in proof?

Like I said above. 9/11 is SOOO 5 years ago.

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Originally posted by Theresa That video is dated wrong, was released 5 years after the attack, was almost impossible to decipher details, and quite possibly could have been taken from pretty much any convenience store. If the government was trying to hide something, you don't think they would make the effort to be sure it wasn't revealed? Talk about naivete... why did the government IMMEDIATELY confiscate the video afterward?

Sigh ... look here's a radical concept ... citgo employees don't give two shits about updating the time and dates on their vcrs ... really what's your conclusion? This massively intelligent conspiracy was engineered upon us and they forgot to set the correct date on the goddamned VCR? Were you expecting High Definition video from a gas station camera? Who's the bigger idiot, the person who believes that a video from a crappy gas station camera with the wrong dates is due to the fact that the video is from a crappy gas station or the person who believes that a massive government coverup with unlimited resources to "hide the truth" results in a crappy gas station video that's clearly a forgery? Why would they confiscate the video? Well for the same fucking reason that any government confiscates EVERYTHING afterwards any major event. The government is doing what it always does ... doing all that it can to keep everything secret to avoid culpability and/or blame. What, you think they faked the 9/11 emergency calls that were just released? Come the fuck on. Speaking of naieve, you talk a lot of shit Theresa without going into any details. If you want to call others naieve well than fucking man up and start going into the details so people can respond intelligently about your arguments. What kind of video expectations did you have? What evidence do you have to support those expectations? Start posting some substance that people can respond to .

My wisdom teeth were pulled out on Monday. I can tell because my mouth is bleeding and I have holes where my wisdom teeth should be.

The fact that they knocked me out with anethesia is not proof that they knocked me out so I wouldn't know what was happening to my teeth.

Maybe they pulled out my other molars, and replaced them with my wisdom teeth? I'll never know. I was passed out.

But in the end. There's 4 holes in my mouth. And it hurts.

Just like there's 3 big holes of real-estate, and a lot of dead people. It hurts.

*edit: forgive the terrible metaphor, I'm on some oxycodon

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Originally posted by Theresa As I said; 100's of video surveillance cameras 5 frames released, all of which show nothing of relevance confiscated gas station video

Oh and fyi if you want to look at the 100s of frames captured, you might want to try searching for them on the internet ... they're out there. Many of them released by judicial watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L75G...related&search=

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Originally posted by Theresa As I said; 100's of video surveillance cameras 5 frames released, all of which show nothing of relevance confiscated gas station video Does it seem realistic to you that there is NOTHING else beside those 5 frames? Which by the way, they released after denying having ANY video capture at all, proving they lied initially.

and yet youre still assuming that they have something more useful. why are you making this assumption? what would you know about the video surveillance at the pentagon? you still havent proven to me that there is more video. i certainly dont want your assessment of it. show me some evidence.

the gas station video, assuming it shows anything, is the property of that business, and not the federal government.

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Originally posted by Theresa Why are you so willing to accept what you have been told, with the bare minimum in proof?

because, unlike you, i dont care why they wont release the video (assuming there is one).

"willing to accept what ive been told" -what the fuck? youre the one that woke up to 9/11 conspiracy bullshit 5 mins ago, ive been doing research about it for almost 2 fucking years. im not the one posting up a video full of poor research, lies & irrelevant conjecture as something thats made me question the official story of 9/11.

im willing to accept that a plane flew into the pentagon, other than that i couldnt give a fuck.

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bare minimum of proof

what are you talking about? theres loads of evidence that a plane struck the building. see, now you really do sound like you dont think a plane hit the building. i dont need a video to know a plane did it.

the fact that the government wont release this phantom video isnt reason enough to doubt anything, except for maybe the pentagon's security surveillance levels prior to 9/11.

"naive"

just fuckin around occrider.

you know, they say "evian" is an anagram for "naive." omg so clever

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