How To Get To Heaven When You Die

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Posted by occrider on Oct-12-2006 05:55:

Posted by Moongoose on Oct-12-2006 07:17:

quote:
Originally posted by xfrodobagginsx
The problem with you is that you are fixated on one or two verses and won't even consider the dozens of other verses that deal with this issue. If you look at the verses I showed you, and if you believe that the bible doesn't contradict it's self, you will see it. I can't make you understand something that is Spritual if you aren't willing to believe it.

We dont have to belive that the bible contradicts itslef, we alredy know it does. People have gone trough the bible and pointed out every single contradiction in it (someone once posted a nice page that listed all the contradictions in the bible, i think it was either Occ or Opus....but ive lost the bookmark since then...was an interesting read none the less). One doesnt need to be spiritual to analize a book, if one can analize Shakespeare and other literary classic without being spiritual he take on any other book he wants.

quote:

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
(KJV)

Sounds reasonable, but unfortunately quite wrong. Its as open to private interpretation as every other piece of work out there. I cant imagine otherwise how people can go on killing sprees and still belive that they are doing gods work and that at the end they will still end up in heaven.

quote:

This verse means that you can't take one or two verses by themselves and just form a belief out of them. You must compare it to the rest of the bible. When this is done, it becomes obvious that works don't save. If you only look at a small window, I can see where you would come to that conclusion.

It actualy doesnt but hey, you are the enlightened spiritual one you cant possibly be wrong.

quote:

Do you believe that the bible contains contradictions?

I don't. If you do, that will hinder you from understanding.

I find it funny that some people can belive in god and still belive that the bible might contain a mistake or two (due to the many translations from and to various languages it went to during its time. How accurate these translation were is anaybodys guess). Its completely reasonable to assume that at some point in history some translator screwed up. Not intentionaly, he just didnt know better and the message of the bible got skewed.

quote:
Why don't you ask The Lord to help you understand. It's very easy for me, but I have the Holy Spirit. I know, I know, I sound like I am full of myself but I am telling you the truth. What do I do? Lie? I am telling you that if you will accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, He will help you understand His word through His Holy Spirit.

Ive been touched by His Noodly Appendage so i know how a religious enlightenment feels like. And considering how wise the FSM is we, its followers are blessed by its wisdom the FSM is one true God and that the way to salvation is to be pirates. Arrr

quote:

This verse is a true statement. The natural man is the unsaved man. The man who doesn't have the Holy Spirit inside Him to help Him understand God's word. Man with all of my heart, I am telling you that this is what you need. You need a genuine relationship with God. Yes it is possible to know the true God personally. Do Christians understand everything that the bible says? No. We have to learn it as well. But we understand it much better than someone who is not saved. I have heard many, many people say that they could not understand the bible before they were saved and after they got saved, they saw the bible in a totally different way. That's because they are guided by the Spirit of God. They aren't lying. I know that because of my own experience with God. The God of the bible is the real God. He is the true God, and You can really know Him. What have you got to lose if I am wrong? Pray that prayer in this original thread directly to God, believe it with all of your strength and watch what happens. He will change the way you see things, not just in the bible, but about everything. You will understand things the way that God intended for you to. Christians are not perfect, we are just forgiven, not because of what we did, but because of what God did. Try it now and let me know what happens.

You say you have to lear the bible as well (quote rude of god to not just make you his faithful belivers understand this from the wery beggining, would make everything much easier). I can see that, i can also see that on average you lear it quite poorly and that its sad that non belivers know it better than you. If it makes you sleep better at night then by all means belive that you have a better understanding of the bible, god and the world then us lost souls and that you are better than anyone else but dont wonder why people dont take you seriously any more.

Oh, and it doesnt matter if I am wrong or if you are wrong, either way i have nothing to lose.

Ive been dangerously close to an enourism since my first drunken rant.

Posted by DJ Sarah H on Oct-12-2006 15:53:

Posted by Renegade on Oct-12-2006 16:35:

quote:
Originally posted by xfrodobagginsx
The problem with you is that you are fixated on one or two verses and won't even consider the dozens of other verses that deal with this issue.

Are you trying to be funny? The core of your argument comes from Galatians and Romans: two books written by the same person, each expounding a common theology that you don't quite seem to understand. I have explained to you what Paul's wider theology was and how those verses fit into that wider theology. You did not address any of these arguments, so I can only presume that you agree with me when I say that Paul does not, in his letters, advocate the abolition of the old Jewish laws. If you do not agree with me then show me where you think I've gone wrong in my analysis, because otherwise I have no choice but to assume from your silence that I am right and you are wrong.

In defending my position, on the other hand, I have quoted from nine different books (Matthew, Luke, Romans, 1 Corinthians, Galatians, James, 1 Peter, 2 John, Revelation) written by seven different authors, in each case presenting passages which, in context (you're welcome to check and prove me wrong!), indicate that the author believed, without qualification, that at least some elements of the old law still apply, even with the death of Jesus. You haven't adequately addressed even one of these passages yet, let alone all of them - so are you going to "consider" these "dozens of other verses" written by a wide spectrum of early Christians, or are you going to content yourself with abiding only by the questionable interpretation of the words of just one author?

quote:
If you look at the verses I showed you, and if you believe that the bible doesn't contradict it's self, you will see it. I can't make you understand something that is Spritual if you aren't willing to believe it.

I'm willing to believe it, frodo, but that comes after proof, not before.

quote:
Do you believe that the bible contains contradictions?

Why don't you tell me:

http://www.infidels.org/library/mod...radictions.html

quote:
Why don't you ask The Lord to help you understand. It's very easy for me, but I have the Holy Spirit. I know, I know, I sound like I am full of myself but I am telling you the truth. What do I do? Lie? I am telling you that if you will accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, He will help you understand His word through His Holy Spirit.

How do you know that the Holy Spirit isn't just the devil is disguise, causing you to misread the Bible so that you end up in hell? Isn't that what the devil does? Lies to people and adversely affects their judgement? Wouldn't it be a safer bet to read the words as they are without relying on gut instincts that can so easily be led astray?

quote:
Pray that prayer in this original thread directly to God, believe it with all of your strength and watch what happens. He will change the way you see things, not just in the bible, but about everything.

Tell you what - I'll start praying to the holy spirit when you start using reason. Afterall, "what have you got to lose"?

Posted by xfrodobagginsx on Oct-13-2006 01:14:

Ok look, I HAVE gone over the verses and I have explained them. Just because I haven't given the answer that you want or expect doesn't mean that I haven't done so. Because you don't understand why I see it the way I do doesn't mean that I haven't done so. I have explained the verses and what they mean. It is up to you to decide if you want to believe that you need Jesus Christ in order to take you to heaven or if you are going to depend on yourself and your good works. The choice is yours.

The peculiar thing is, if I am wrong, why is it so scary to you to give Him a try? If what I have said is a lie, why not give Him a try?
Could it be that you are afraid that it might be true and you don't want it to be so?

Posted by Fir3start3r on Oct-13-2006 01:46:

quote:
Originally posted by Wicked Neo

So what are yea tryin' to say?

inb4dalock....

Posted by MisterOpus1 on Oct-13-2006 03:19:

quote:
Originally posted by xfrodobagginsx
Ok look, I HAVE gone over the verses and I have explained them.

No, you didn't. You haven't explained anything at all, hence your error here. You only quoted passages of the Bible thinking that they supported your notion of rejection of old Jewish laws WHEN IN FACT as Renegade easily pointed out that not only were your passages quoted out of context, but also had a healthy handful of other passages supporting the notion that old Jewish laws are to be upheld.

So will you actually try to answer these points or shall we assume you concede his points and will be exiting soon?

quote:
Just because I haven't given the answer that you want or expect doesn't mean that I haven't done so.

That made absolutely no sense. Nevertheless, you didn't answer anything at all. We only expect you to answer those questions DIRECTLY posed to you and the passages you cited. You have dodged those questions miserably thus far. Please answer them, and DO NOT bear false witness against Renegade again. This answer you have given is patently false and I believe you truly know it as such. As a consequence, I do hope you pray to your God for forgiveness of such a grave sin.

quote:
Because you don't understand why I see it the way I do doesn't mean that I haven't done so.

Uhh, well considering you haven't even attempted to help us "see the way you see it" by answering his questions directly doesn't really help your cause at all, once again.

quote:
I have explained the verses and what they mean.

And yet you were shown to have been incorrect in your assessment of those verses. Please do not make any more false statements. It's making Jesus weep.

quote:
It is up to you to decide if you want to believe that you need Jesus Christ in order to take you to heaven or if you are going to depend on yourself and your good works. The choice is yours.

Already made it long ago, and have been at peace ever since. Now could you make your choice and decide to answer the questions and points posed at your incorrect assessment on the Bible citations, please?

quote:
The peculiar thing is, if I am wrong, why is it so scary to you to give Him a try? If what I have said is a lie, why not give Him a try?
Could it be that you are afraid that it might be true and you don't want it to be so?

Why Dr. Pascal, it sure is fancy to see you here again!:

[[ LINK REMOVED ]]

You don't come around here too often, do you? You really need to work on your debating skills, sir.

Posted by venomX on Oct-13-2006 03:28:

Since this isnt going anywhere can i post a funny picture ?

Posted by Fir3start3r on Oct-13-2006 05:19:

oh! oh!

Me first!!

Posted by colonelcrisp on Oct-13-2006 05:35:

so i got to thinking after i banged two 18 yr olds in the back of my van two weekends ago at a party...... what would jesus do...

then i shook my head , murmered who gives a fuck, jesus never had a double header with two 18yr olds in his van....

i get to start my own heaven now.....

Posted by venomX on Oct-13-2006 05:47:

Posted by Groundhog Boy on Oct-13-2006 06:39:

quote:
Originally posted by xfrodobagginsx
Ok look, I HAVE gone over the verses and I have explained them. Just because I haven't given the answer that you want or expect doesn't mean that I haven't done so. Because you don't understand why I see it the way I do doesn't mean that I haven't done so. I have explained the verses and what they mean. It is up to you to decide if you want to believe that you need Jesus Christ in order to take you to heaven or if you are going to depend on yourself and your good works. The choice is yours.

The peculiar thing is, if I am wrong, why is it so scary to you to give Him a try? If what I have said is a lie, why not give Him a try?
Could it be that you are afraid that it might be true and you don't want it to be so?

I feel like you arguing with everyone else here is like me arguing with my mom about the same topic. Believe me, you're not going to win, since logic isn't on your side. Your beliefs require too much blind faith and too much ability to eat up circular reasoning.

That's why, after learning all of this stuff as a child, going to church and sunday school every week pretty much until i was 16, attending youth groups, bible study and even those big regional conferences, I no longer practice like my parents.

My mom's the first female deacon in her her church, and reading that last paragraph is exactly like reading a line out her playbook, "If I'm wrong, what's going to happen, if you're wrong, you're going to hell." Do you guys get all your "how to indoctrinate others with what you believe" training together?

Posted by NO! on Oct-13-2006 08:22:

wow, the thread starter is stupid. that's like a christian saying that all people who talk about political issues on the internet are angry, silver spoon fed, college student hippies that complain about how society is 'screwing' them, and that they need to stfu in every damn class there is because no one wants to hear their opinion.

Here's another thing to think about:

What happens when you take a gun away from a murderer? He'll get a knife. Take away a knife and he'll use rocks and so on.

If you take away religion from an asshole, they'll use racism, take away racism, maybe they'll use nationalism.

In the end, people are just tools and assholes such as the thread starter. There's no stopping this because people will play along with the game even though they don't realize the rules in the game don't make it fun.

Posted by DJ Sarah H on Oct-13-2006 11:13:

OK, now we have got to the point of 'funny' images being posted and frodo's avoidance of the questions put to him, this thread reaches its conclusion

Closed

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