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-- How Bolier & Coenraad Steal A Melody!
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quote:

Originally posted by LeonB that already was the point with our breakdown in the mighty ducks. People seem not to get that, and think we did our utter best to create an emotional melody or so, which isnt true. And Paul, why oh why did you post this on all forums, mail armin van buuren and others about it (yeah those mails got forwarded) instead of contacting us upfront. Do you (and anyone else) really think we need to steal melodies from others and that we arent capable of writing own melodies? especially when it comes to an arpeggio played on a vanguard? Do you really think that IF Menno (@Intuition Office) received this demo (which he didnt, comes clear from your email: you didnt send it to intuition, but you sent it to Fundamental and United recordings, which means Menno didnt even GET your demo)and passed it on to us, we would look into our VSTs and synths to check for something that would sound EXACTLY the same as your sound and came up with this vanguard preset (its called frozen land i think)? Could be that you were shocked when hearing the ducks sample, but thats not our fault anyway. Maybe the lesson for you should be: if you use a preset, be aware that anyone else can use it too.

My advice would be: Preset arpeggio is amateurish. Those who use it obviously isn't capable / or doesn't take the time to plot the midi instead. ERGO - Those who use it sucks and should be ashamed. Including YOU Leon!!

Naive & disrespectful. Please stop loving yourself so much Paul. Thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by alexpea My advice would be: Preset arpeggio is amateurish. Those who use it obviously isn't capable / or doesn't take the time to plot the midi instead. ERGO - Those who use it sucks and should be ashamed. Including YOU Leon!!

quite true, it is extremely lazy. another piece of proof showing the quantity of new material is by far exceeding the quality

quote:

Originally posted by LeonB that already was the point with our breakdown in the mighty ducks. People seem not to get that, and think we did our utter best to create an emotional melody or so, which isnt true. And Paul, why oh why did you post this on all forums, mail armin van buuren and others about it (yeah those mails got forwarded) instead of contacting us upfront. Do you (and anyone else) really think we need to steal melodies from others and that we arent capable of writing own melodies? especially when it comes to an arpeggio played on a vanguard? Do you really think that IF Menno (@Intuition Office) received this demo (which he didnt, comes clear from your email: you didnt send it to intuition, but you sent it to Fundamental and United recordings, which means Menno didnt even GET your demo)and passed it on to us, we would look into our VSTs and synths to check for something that would sound EXACTLY the same as your sound and came up with this vanguard preset (its called frozen land i think)? Could be that you were shocked when hearing the ducks sample, but thats not our fault anyway. Maybe the lesson for you should be: if you use a preset, be aware that anyone else can use it too.

I agree, it sounds to me that Paul is just pissed off that his track didn't get signed.

quote:

Originally posted by alexpea My advice would be: Preset arpeggio is amateurish. Those who use it obviously isn't capable / or doesn't take the time to plot the midi instead. ERGO - Those who use it sucks and should be ashamed. Including YOU Leon!!

oh please read my posts more carefull

What do you think now, in ALL other tracks i produced i never used presets or arps.

Ill explain ONE more time then:

We knew it is lazy to use, we knew the melody wasnt special. That was on purpose!

We said to each other:
Lets see, we'll make a track for the dancefloors, and add this preset thing in the middle, and see what people will say who listen to it at home, instead of experience it in the club. And what happened, several people saying: The track is shit, but the break is ok. That was exactly the effect we were looking for, as its a gimmick.

edit -> needless to say we think its the opposite, we love the beats, and we see the break as a funny gimmick.

quote:

Originally posted by LeonB Could be that you were shocked when hearing the ducks sample, but thats not our fault anyway. Maybe the lesson for you should be: if you use a preset, be aware that anyone else can use it too.

Leon all is already written... Everybody understand the situation and made conclusions. I answered on all the questions. At this moment this topic become a circle. A flame repeats itself more and more and comments have same sense as 1, 3, 5 pages before. On t.nu it's already closed. Possibly it's actual here?

quote:

Originally posted by Nell quite true, it is extremely lazy. another piece of proof showing the quantity of new material is by far exceeding the quality

Putting aside whether the average trance track of the moment sounds lazy or not, I somewhat disagree with this.

And this applies to the use of 'factory' presets as well.

If a sound works really well in a mix, that's all that matters.

Of course freshly created synth presets should be used and encouraged, but there are times when presets made by others just slot perfectly in the mix and I have no problem whatsoever with myself or anyone using them, if it benefits the track as a whole.

That goes for using arpeggiator functions too. After all, all that really matters is how the end result sounds, the final piece of music.

That's true craftsmanship, having an end result thats wonderful and stands on its own, regardless of what tools were used and what some of the techniques were to produce it.

Yes of course if the entire thing was only factory presets, loops and arps it would sound as such, but such elements should not be outlawed as somehow 'lazy' or bad altogether. Everything has its uses

quote:

Originally posted by Paul.Vinitsky Leon all is already written... Everybody understand the situation and made conclusions. I answered on all the questions. At this moment this topic become a circle. A flame repeats itself more and more and comments have same sense as 1, 3, 5 pages before. On t.nu it's already closed. Possibly it's actual here?

if anyone concludes i stole anything im still not satisfied

but well, yeah let it be buried forever then.

Few still seem to have doubts.

For those:

First there isn't much money on a single release anymore (unless you get on Tiesto compilation or something), not for labels and the artists. 2nd. In this case, ripping makes no sense. The melody is not that strong (sorry Paul and Leon!). 3rd. the respected labels. They are often ran by one of the nicest blokes on earth, who would never go with a stealing. Often producers themselves.

My contribution in this thread is now over.

quote:

Originally posted by LeonB if anyone concludes i stole anything im still not satisfied but well, yeah let it be buried forever then.

You wrote this with sight on answer
This situation is something unusual. In music world both cases are widespread enough: and thefts, and groundless claims. I don't know you, you don't know me. And in such case it's impossible to say on 100% that it's a coincidence or not, groundless claims or not. In this episode there is no winners or loosers. It's just a crossing of a large number of circumstances.

quote:

yeah let it be buried forever then

quote:

Originally posted by LeonB if anyone concludes i stole anything im still not satisfied but well, yeah let it be buried forever then.

You wrote this with sight on answer
This situation is something unusual. In music world both cases are widespread enough: and thefts, and groundless claims. I don't know you, you don't know me. And in such case it's impossible to say on 100% that it's a coincidence or not, groundless claims or not. In this episode there is no winners or loosers. It's just a crossing of a large number of circumstances.

quote:

yeah let it be buried forever then

[edit]

never mind my french..

lets say:

I don't think this is ripped and I know Leon and Cliff good enough to be sure about it.

I totally agree with Galen about the "Leon-bashing" instead of mailing Intuition or the producers.

quote:

Originally posted by Freek Geuze hmm, the primary school got its holidays this week I gues? Why don't you all go produce a better track than whining about a horrible melody. For fuck's sake, Mighty Ducks is about jumping around with 3 beers in your hand instead of taking pictures with your mobile-cam from a laser while listening to some random played arpeggio's. Without the climax part, the track wouldn't even stand out. it's very sad.. boehoe :-(

Wow, and you're supposed to be a professional producer? Everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether a Trance track is 'about jumping around with 3 beers in your hand' or not. I haven't posted my opinion about the track yet, because I haven't heard it yet BUT if I had post my opinion about it I don't need someone to tell me to 'stop whining'.

Your turn or stop whining.

what does someone make a professional producer since almost everybody is a producer?

I just putted my opinion in this thread and yes, a lot of people, like the TS are whining.

If you want to listen to a real rip-off, check Fictivision vs. C-quence - Symbols and Scooter - Jigga Jigga.

quote:

Originally posted by Freek Geuze what does someone make a professional producer since almost everybody is a producer? I just putted my opinion in this thread and yes, a lot of people, like the TS are whining. If you want to listen to a real rip-off, check Fictivision vs. C-quence - Symbols and Scooter - Jigga Jigga.

- First of all, this post is not really a reaction to my post.

- Secondly, I don't quite understand this post. Do you mean that Scooter's 'Jigga Jigga' is a rip-off from Fictivision vs. C-Quence's 'Symbols' or do you mean that BOTH tracks are rip-offs???

what is the definition of proffesional producer? and what differs a proffesional producer from a normal producer?
would be interesting to see what some of the producer in this thread thinks where the line is drawn.

of course not,

Jigga Jigga is a rip off from Symbols.

what's the point in arguing over who imitated Andy Moor first?

quote:

Originally posted by RebeL9 what is the definition of proffesional producer? and what differs a proffesional producer from a normal producer? would be interesting to see what some of the producer in this thread thinks where the line is drawn.

Well maybe one more message . Professional producers, they know their way in studio. Usually can make a great track in very short time which is professional quality. Also they often have musical background (piano, guitar lessons, playing in rock band etc.)

It's hard to draw a line though, many demo tracks sounds very professional these days. But if the line is money, professional producers earn their living with music. Others have to make living with something else. Music, it's just hobby for me. So I don't consider myself as a professional for example, couldn't make a living with it either

quote:

Originally posted by Freek Geuze Mighty Ducks is about jumping around with 3 beers in your hand instead of taking pictures with your mobile-cam from a laser while listening to some random played arpeggio's.

Not about the Disney movie?

It must be frustrating to produce music so utterly generic sounding that conflicts like this come up.

Let's just get the both of you a juice box and a cookie and see if we can settle this like big boys.

quote:

Originally posted by RebeL9 what is the definition of proffesional producer? and what differs a proffesional producer from a normal producer? would be interesting to see what some of the producer in this thread thinks where the line is drawn.

Professionals make money, "normal" producers do not. There's no other difference.

quote:

Originally posted by RJT It must be frustrating to produce music so utterly generic sounding that conflicts like this come up. Let's just get the both of you a juice box and a cookie and see if we can settle this like big boys.

did you hear the whole track ?

quote:

Originally posted by LeonB did you hear the whole track ?

Yes, but only in the context of ASOT 272 - I personally didn't care for it (or the sample of Paul's track), but that is entirely a matter of my own opinion regarding the tunes, and really has nothing to do with the discussion in this thread.

heard this tune saturday night @ scream party fuckin' rocked...

paul vitskys just looking for some recognition cos he cant get it anywhere else..fuck him

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