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-- the recent TOTA "DJ" Self-Promo / Lingo/ Attitude problem
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quote:

Originally posted by Cribby If I want to post about how much fun I had dancing with someone, I will.

what a bitch you are!


I think roll calls should stay honestly.
But I will agree that the photos from the night be posted in the review thread then if you really wanna keep things organized that much. Or else have a sticky thread for reviews and photos at the top like we do for other things.

Other than that, I do what I always do anyhow.. skip over the titles that don't appeal to me. Honestly, I don't give a shit as long as you don't take TA away!


edit: sorry jon jon, that doesn't help your reason for posting this thread Don't we have a TOTA DJ thread stickied already anyhow?? lol

This is all so subjective and a "borderline" issue though..I agree that those roll call threads just end up getting silly after a certain point...almost comical to read after a while...but in terms of Events...there are SO many cool events happening in the city- small and big but the promoters purposely do not post on the forums because of complaints like this, stuff gets out of hand, etc...so how will we ever know about these great events? People are complaing that most of the events are about house, etc. in TOTA and "scene has changed"..thats becasue some of the good trance and techno events don't even go posted from what I noticed..there are even some, well not big name DJs, but certainly big players in the "scene" that have come to Toronto, played, and left and not a single thread was posted on TOTA because no one on the boards knew about it yet turnout was perfectly fine

i just wanna dance lol

quote:

Originally posted by 2famous4u i just wanna dance lol

I'm with you girl!

quote:

Originally posted by Floorwhore To many if's but's and maybe's going on in here. Simple. The fuck with roll calls. No need if every just uses the event forum. Eliminates said 'bumping' problem. If someone is interested in updating the names in that thread, they can easily keep it updated by posting the current list once a day. Photo threads. Post it in the review threads. Period. Or guess whats bound to happen? Every photographer in the city is going to find out about TA's loose rules when it comes to party photos, and people will simply register to show off their work. E. O. D.

Here's my issue with this approach.
I agree that there is all kinds of stupid stuff in roll calls and event threads, I also agree that it shouldn't be a venue for photographers to shamelessly plug themselves.

However after certain bigger parties (new years, labour of love, bbq, etc) roll calls and reviews can reach an insanely long length.

I for one spend too much time on this site already and find it frustrating not being able to find things like pictures when i'm looking for them.

The fact of it is that, while there is bullshit in all of the threads which can make it frustrating, there also is good information. I'm for keeping seperate roll calls, event threads and review, and also for having a seperate picture thread as well.

That being said, I think that in the actual picture thread, one person should post no more than one or two actual pictures in the thread, but instead should link to where they have them posted.
That way it keeps the thread shorter and easier to navigate and allows people to find your pictures if they want to see them.

quote:

Originally posted by shanny The fact of it is that, while there is bullshit in all of the threads which can make it frustrating, there also is good information.

agreed

quote:

Originally posted by shanny The fact of it is that, while there is bullshit in all of the threads which can make it frustrating, there also is good information. I'm for keeping seperate roll calls, event threads and review, and also for having a seperate picture thread as well.

sooo...what was the good info. in the "whos fucking who" thread

quote:

Originally posted by sufee_b sooo...what was the good info. in the "whos fucking who" thread

Are you kidding me?
That shit was all golden.

whine whine whine whine whine

a separate roll call forum would be nice...

quote:

Originally posted by geroin a separate roll call forum would be nice...

no.

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=295155

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker My interpretation of Jon's concern: - Jon is saying that sometimes people are using TOTA to self-promote (either themselves or their events) more than what should be considered reasonable. - We have all seen some (intentional and/or unintentional) self-promotion in threads that really shouldn't have it. After a while this type of activity is bound to cause annoyance. This annoyance is what Jon is bringing to the forefront with this thread. My $0.02: - Promoters/talent and TOTAs should NOT bump roll call threads (per Margaret's post). TOTA attendees should post in it once, move along - keep event discussion in the event thread. Bumping roll calls [/b]creates a false sense of support.[/b]

Now I know this isn't an event thread, and I don't want to beat a dead horse..... but aren't the same things happening with your 2HP radio show on a weekly basis? Shouldn't the same 'concerns' apply to non-event related threads as well?

quote:

Originally posted by Floorwhore http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=295155 Now I know this isn't an event thread, and I don't want to beat a dead horse..... but aren't the same things happening with your 2HP radio show on a weekly basis? Shouldn't the same 'concerns' apply to non-event related threads as well?

Ah, interesting point. I never looked at it from that angle too. I find the comments in this thread intriguing.

quote:

Originally posted by Jem_hadar Ah, interesting point. I never looked at it from that angle too. I find the comments in this thread intriguing.

I find the comments in this thread to be bullshit.

Seems like any thread that keeps popping up over and over again may be put into this category.

quote:

Originally posted by shanny I find the comments in this thread to be bullshit. Seems like any thread that keeps popping up over and over again may be put into this category.

No not any thread, specifically threads that are to promote, in which the creator of the thread continues to bump in order to gain more interest. This was one of the main points that Jon and R.J. were trying to make, and I'm simply pointing out that the same thing is going on with 2HP regularly.

While I do see 2HP as a great radio show, and many people like it. I'm also pretty sure that he is likely not making a dime off of it. But the same can be said about many events that the TA's (including myself) throw on a regular basis. Offering a place for the community to come, that often has no cover charge, and where no absolutely no profits are made (with the exception of the venue who host the party).

quote:

Originally posted by shanny I find the comments in this thread to be bullshit. Seems like any thread that keeps popping up over and over again may be put into this category.

OK, so many of the comments may be very non-constructive and intense... and harsh, but there are many ideas that are interesting (though I hope like none come to fruition... but find it interesting the way ppl actually think things can be improved themselves, even if i havent really agreed on any of the points.

and i do find jeff's comment interesting, bc i never thought of it in that light, and im wondering what RJs response will be, in agreement or not, and if not, the rationale.

I see the points of both of you guys, and Jeff I wasn't meaning that comment to be against the posts that you or other promoters make.

I think there is an awful lot of negativity going on in this thread for no reason.

People need to remember how to censor things themselves, they aren't robots who have to open every thread just so they can bitch about it.

Thats what i was referring to.

quote:

Originally posted by shanny I think there is an awful lot of negativity going on in this thread for no reason. People need to remember how to censor things themselves, they aren't robots who have to open every thread just so they can bitch about it.

Hear, hear!

Live and let live.

quote:

Originally posted by shanny I see the points of both of you guys, and Jeff I wasn't meaning that comment to be against the posts that you or other promoters make. I think there is an awful lot of negativity going on in this thread for no reason. People need to remember how to censor things themselves, they aren't robots who have to open every thread just so they can bitch about it. Thats what i was referring to.

No offense taken Josh, it was just a response to your 'Seems like any thread that keeps popping up over and over again may be put into this category.'

I agree, plenty of negativity in this thread. And I can also openly say that I don't feel like a thread like this should have (or needed to be) been started in the first place. Of course it will be full of negative comments when someone starts a thread of this nature.

Del does a good job moderating TA, and does not need people to tell him how to run his website. This ultimately is/was the threads purpose whether it was intended to look that way, or not.

With that being said, the thread WAS created, and I'm simply stating that there shouldn't be a double standard of opinions.

I actually havent found this thread to be negative at all. Yes people are bitching, but they are also trying to find solutions to some concerns. In fact, im surprised it didnt get alot messier.

Regardless, I am currently a fence sitter in the situation and I find the discussion pretty interesting.

One thing I know for sure is the "take it with a grain of salt" attitude annoys me. Yes, it is an online forum, and yes some people take things more seriously then others but keeping some credibility on TA would be nice. I too would prefer it if the boards didnt go to shit.

quote:

Originally posted by Floorwhore With that being said, the thread WAS created, and I'm simply stating that there shouldn't be a double standard of opinions.

quote:

Originally posted by Floorwhore Point taken. Del does a good job moderating TA, and does not need people to tell him how to run his website.

With that said, lets just leave it at that!

quote:

Originally posted by shanny With that said, lets just leave it at that!

I'm actually interested to hear some other peoples view's before putting this baby to rest.

And no, i'm not looking for a fight

Just a response.

I'm still waiting on opinions on what is acceptable for 'promoting'.
IE, what is fair game and what is not tacky?

House parties? (I'm guessing cottage parties fall under this)

3 TAs having fun? (wings night, or any pre meet for a dinner b/f an event?)

'Non conventional gigs'? (Global village nights?)

While I appreciate Josh's 'If it's not broken, don't try to fix it' attitude, but there seems to be enough of us not satisfied with current situation to warrant trying to find clarification. (for the betterment of the community)

Also, let's keep it civil as it as been so far.

Feel free to express your opinion but remember that personal attacks are not cool.

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree I'm still waiting on opinions on what is acceptable for 'promoting'. IE, what is fair game and what is not tacky?

quote:

Originally posted by jon jon my problem is with the excessive self-promotion, not promotion

Don't get hungup on my personal tirade on non-club venues, that rant is a bit more confusing and has more to do with some DJ's thinking they're Danny T...

quote:

Originally posted by Floorwhore but aren't the same things happening with your 2HP radio show on a weekly basis? Shouldn't the same 'concerns' apply to non-event related threads as well?

(When I contributed to this thread I didn't talk about specific people/events/organizations. I kept the discussion broad because I don't think singling people out is the best way to have an open, mature discussion. I am going to stick to my guns are not get specific or personal.)

I don't believe the same concerns apply to non-event related threads because non-event threads are VERY different and serve VERY different purposes.

Events have special considerations that need to be known and understood (Financial, Number of Threads, Operational) and these considerations are why people have concern about event/roll-call threads and their proper use, who posts them, who bumps them, who influences them, etc.

1) Financial Considerations
- Event promoters/organizers are compensated for the events they organize/promote [compensation can be in the form of money/drinks/other benefits, etc].
- Events are affiliated with businesses (venues, production companies, etc).
- All events make money (revenue positive) for either the promoter, booker, venue, talent, bar, etc.

Non-event threads do not have financial considerations attached to them.

2) Number of Thread Considerations
- Events have 1 event thread and 1 roll call for every single event.
- Both of these threads are used throughout the week (usually every day leading up to the event date and sometimes even afterwords).
- Often promoters have multiple events per week which means multiple event threads and multiple roll calls posted.

Non-event threads are generally contained to one single thread that is generally used only when necessary or relevant.

3) Operational Considerations
- Events are live musical performances, held at some sort of venue with some sort of marketing effort associated with them.

Non-event threads do not serve the purpose to market a venue or live performance.

-----

I don't want to get deeper into this (and more importantly I don't want to get into individual specifics). The above considerations clearly differentiate how event threads and non-event threads are different.

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