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-- Formula 1 - season 2007
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Some of the technology that FIA et al want to introduce are things like biofuels, energy storage and re-use, stuff like that. That would be cool to see and would keep F1 at the pinacle of techonology. Stuff like stability control is just gay though. Stability control is already available in road cars, F1 should (and has been) developing pre-production technology if it is to stay as the pinnacle.

Peugeot and Audi are about to go head to head in diesels at LeMans. There are two manufacturers who are trying to promote fuel economy and alternative fuels via a top form of motorsport. Also, look at Corvette and the affect the C6r programme has had on the z06 'Vette. It's knocking on super-car territory at a fraction of the price. F1 needs to figure out how to allow technical innovation like fuels, engine configurations, and gearbox technologies (CVT's which Williams has had since the 90's but they can't use)while still keeping a high standard of racing.

I agree with the stability control stuff too. They already have traction control and you can hear it cut in from the apex to the exit of the corners (depending on how much a certain driver has dialed into his car). This doesn't help passing at all, why should an electronic safety net? Racing is about having the stones to go deeper on the brakes than the other guy, or around the outside when he's not expecting it.

[[ LINK REMOVED ]]


Now this video is great racing. No, we can't be stuck in the past and the cars ARE faster today. But as they've become faster, the racing has become more boring.

Having ranted and ranted, I still watch every race and will continue to watch every race.

quote:

Originally posted by Trance Nutter Some of the technology that FIA et al want to introduce are things like biofuels, energy storage and re-use, stuff like that. That would be cool to see and would keep F1 at the pinacle of techonology.

Yeah, that would be nice, instead F1 keeps "environmental friendly" by painting the planet earth on a car.

The fuel burning 3rd session in qualifying is still a big joke too.

quote:

Originally posted by pmoisse Peugeot and Audi are about to go head to head in diesels at LeMans. There are two manufacturers who are trying to promote fuel economy and alternative fuels via a top form of motorsport. Also, look at Corvette and the affect the C6r programme has had on the z06 'Vette. It's knocking on super-car territory at a fraction of the price. F1 needs to figure out how to allow technical innovation like fuels, engine configurations, and gearbox technologies (CVT's which Williams has had since the 90's but they can't use)while still keeping a high standard of racing. I agree with the stability control stuff too. They already have traction control and you can hear it cut in from the apex to the exit of the corners (depending on how much a certain driver has dialed into his car). This doesn't help passing at all, why should an electronic safety net? Racing is about having the stones to go deeper on the brakes than the other guy, or around the outside when he's not expecting it. [[ LINK REMOVED ]] Now this video is great racing. No, we can't be stuck in the past and the cars ARE faster today. But as they've become faster, the racing has become more boring. Having ranted and ranted, I still watch every race and will continue to watch every race.

yes, the stones, but at the speed they are going, someone could get hurt... i think its more of a accident prevention tool. i for one, think its fantastic, shure it takes away some of the spicyness of the racing... but it keeps everyone safe.. cant complaint about htat... well i guess you could

quote:

Originally posted by nchs09 yes, the stones, but at the speed they are going, someone could get hurt... i think its more of a accident prevention tool. i for one, think its fantastic, shure it takes away some of the spicyness of the racing... but it keeps everyone safe.. cant complaint about htat... well i guess you could

Traction control systems were allowed again, because somebody complained that Ferrari was using them. The FIA tried to ban them, but came to the realisation that they could not actually control or investigate such electronic systems. Basically the FIA gave up and said 'since we cannot control this, everybody is free to use them'. They even had a period where it would be banned, but the termination deadline was pushed further and further back until the FIA said they were just going to allow TC.

As pmoisse said, you can hear TC cut in and out during the race, and that is what prompted some teams to ask the FIA it investigate. I believe all this was during the late 90's. They eventually allowed the systems after the turn of the century.

quote:

Originally posted by Orko Traction control systems were allowed again, because somebody complained that Ferrari was using them. The FIA tried to ban them, but came to the realisation that they could not actually control or investigate such electronic systems. Basically the FIA gave up and said 'since we cannot control this, everybody is free to use them'. They even had a period where it would be banned, but the termination deadline was pushed further and further back until the FIA said they were just going to allow TC. As pmoisse said, you can hear TC cut in and out during the race, and that is what prompted some teams to ask the FIA it investigate. I believe all this was during the late 90's. They eventually allowed the systems after the turn of the century.

Exactly. This is the innovation that makes F1 great. Sure it's pushing/cheating the rules. Just like the Tyrrell 6-wheeler, just like the Brabham fan car, and most recently, just like the flexible wing elements. With these 3 examples, there was something quite visible which the FIA could police. The FIA cannot police the electronics until the next couple years when they issue spec ECU's courtesy of Microsoft. There's a 4th example which may/may not have been banned (haven't read the rules on the FIA website for updates) and that's the Renault non-electronic launch control. I think it was banned, but not sure. It was super creative and arguably helped them win Alonso's first championship. Again, innovation on the edge of the rules.

quote:

Originally posted by nchs09 yes, the stones, but at the speed they are going, someone could get hurt... i think its more of a accident prevention tool. i for one, think its fantastic, shure it takes away some of the spicyness of the racing... but it keeps everyone safe.. cant complaint about htat... well i guess you could

Yes, but the tracks are also safer. Note the cameramen and pit workers in the Dijon video I posted. Note how little (if any) runoff area there is. There also wasn't a pitlane speed limit until the early 90's! This was filmed in the same year that they stopped running the Nordschleiffe because of Lauda's accident (I'm going to be running the Nordschleiffe this spring, and I will be sure to report - with video - how fucking nuts it is ). The cars are also much safer thanks to Ron Dennis and John Barnard developping the carbon monocoque MP4-4. The FIA has also taken grip away from the cars with harder, non-slick tires. Sure the cars are faster over a given lap, but that's through developments in aero which, if disturbed mid-corner, removes loads of grip as well.

I think it is safe to say that the stuff we see in consumer cars today is a direct result of formula one technology.

quote:

Originally posted by Omega_M I think it is safe to say that the stuff we see in consumer cars today is a direct result of formula one technology.

True, to a point.

Racing, as a whole, really. All-wheel-drive as we now know it is courtesy Audi & the rally world (even though Audi had it on their road cars at the same time).

F1 got a lot of it's aero cues in the 70's from endurance cars from a few years earlier. Ground effects were first used in Can-Am, and wide use of flowing bodyshapes creating downforce were from LeMans cars like the Porsche 917 series.

But yes, ABS, active suspension, and traction control were all given their trial by fire in F1.

i think rear defusers also came from forumla one.... but werent they later banned because the cars were bottoming out?

quote:

Originally posted by nchs09 i think rear defusers also came from forumla one.... but werent they later banned because the cars were bottoming out?

The diffusers were a carry-over from both Can-Am, LeMans and F1, though their current form more closely resembles the early F1 diffusers.

The cars were bottoming out because there was no minimum ride height. At high speeds, the cars would generate enough downforce, combined with certain springrates, to lower the car. Also, through the late 80's and early 90's, the exhausts were routed into the diffuser to put more air through it and in turn generate more downforce. The problem with that was that when the driver went off the throttle under braking, or trailing throttle through a long sweeper, the downforce was reduced all of a sudden due to less exhaust flowing through the diffuser.

"The Chariot Makers" - is a great book by Steve Matchett about the evolution of the F1 car as we know it.

The exhausts were later routed through the sidepods for packaging reasons. It created a shorter exhaust system, eliminated the unpredictable downforce issue, and allowed the bodywork to cling closer to the newer & smaller gearboxes that were coming out.

But, one of the biggest things I miss about F1 is seeing cars screaming through the Monaco tunnel trailing a wake of sparks from the titanium skidpads on the wings & diffuser.

So Kimi has a water leak in his engine which caused a pressure drop, and may prompt an engine change. I guess Todt was right when he said, Ferrari still needs to work on reliability.

Funny thing is, the article mentions that Ferrari told him to slow down (during aussi gp) when then noticed the pressure drop.

Now, how exactly do you write that on a pit board without letting everybody know whats going on? Either Kimi/Ferrari is lying saying that didn't have radio, when in fact they did, or the press is just getting things wrong.

^^ There's no radio's this year? Pit-to-driver / driver-to-pit / both?

I know they banned two-way telemetry where the garage could alter the settings on the engine/diffs/gearbox from the pit wall, but I didn't think they banned radios.

Interesting!

I wonder how they signalled him then? Colour codes on the pitboard with his lead?

I'm sure they'd have some code for the board to say slow down.
They'd plan for radio failures and have signals sorted for common instructions.


pmoisse - no, Kimi had radio failure.

^^ Thanks

I was watching the race in Dutch and couldn't understand a damn thing lol

For the next race I'll log on to the official FIA live timing.

Traction Control gets the Axe

I'm warming up to the control ECU concept after hearing this.

from www.f1live.com

The World Motorsport Council met yesterday and the FIA today announced the decisions that were made with regard to the sporting and technical regulations for next season.

The most significant change to the previously published set of rules is that traction control will no longer be permitted.

Article 9.3 of the technical regulations states: �No car may be equipped with a system or device which is capable of preventing the driven wheels from spinning under power or of compensating for excessive throttle demand by the driver. Any device or system which notifies the driver of the onset of wheel spin is not permitted.'

Formula One moves to a standardised ECU next year and it now felt that the FIA can effectively police traction control and other driver aids, something that proved difficult with each team running its own ECU and electronic systems. In addition, the FIA ECU must also be used in testing.

With gearboxes sealed and to be used over four Grand Prix weekends, a change of gearbox will incur a five position penalty on the starting grid.
However, the seals can be �broken� under supervision of the FIA in races two, three and four ahead of qualification for inspection and the changing of ratios. Clutches can be changed without penalty.

With regard to engine homologation, there are many ancillary devices such as clutches, alternators, fuel pumps and other devices that are not included in the process.

Other rule changes include the procedure for taking a penalty in the pit lane should the safety car be deployed, changes to the crash test requirements and crash structures, and clarification of the engine change rule regarding a failure before the end of qualifying.

The much-rumoured return to slicks meanwhile is not an option now for 2008 with the Bridgestone Potenza tyres remaining with four 14mm grooves.

I like the new tyre markings, it gives a whole new look to the car


I'm pissed i probably won't be able to watch the race live

quote:

Originally posted by stren I'm pissed i probably won't be able to watch the race live

I'm in approxiamtely the same time-zone as KL, and our channel who proclaim themselves "The home of motorsport" aren't showing the race until 11pm tonight. What they are showing now while the race is on is.................. City Slickers 2 - The Legend of Curly's Gold.



EDIT: Billy Crystal just made a joke that wasn't funny.

So do you guys want to know who won?!?!?

I finally watched most of it live. Good job Hamilton, he kept his cool and powned Massa . Tough luck Kubica
,I wish he finally had a car that worked.

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Originally posted by stren Good job Hamilton, he kept his cool and powned Massa .

No kidding. A true star. Although I have never believed in Massa, this kind of proves it. Hamilton just fucked with him, until Massa threw himself off the track.

Impressive stuff from McLaren. Where the hell did they come from?

quote:

Originally posted by Orko Impressive stuff from McLaren. Where the hell did they come from?

I know what you're saying. I spent the whole race waiting for Kimi to attack, but McLaren simply had the fastest car out there today

FORZA McLAREN!!!!!!

i said it, and everyone was like "they are going to break down"

ixnay on that!

maclaren is truly badass looking too

Hamilton is amazing. Ron Dennis needs to give him a medal or something because he made it happen. If Hamilton didn't pass Massa in the 2nd corner, Alonso's win would have been uncertain.

I'm really suprised at Ferrari their tactics without the presence of Ross Brawn. Ferrari used to be so good with pitstops. I figured Massa would easily pass Heidfeld during the pitstops considering the speed advantage he has, but nope. Ferrari is not the same team as they used to be. ( Does anyone remember the brilliant move of Ross Brawn were he completely changed the stragety of MS into a 4 stop stragety during the race which gave MS the win over Alonso at the 2004 french GP? )

Kimi said he needed to compromise too many things ( engine problems? ) and he lost too much speed because of those things, he didn�t have as much speed as Massa. So it's going to be interesting when Kimi has got a Ferrari that's 100% working to see where the Mclaren's really are compared to Ferrari.

I must admit the McLarens did a very good job, however I think we have yet to see Ferrari at 100%. Indeed, Ross Brawn and Schumacher have taken a chunk out of the team but nevertheless they can still do the job to win.

If Massa didn't have the very very poor start (so dissapointed) the race would've been very different and I think Ferrari would've come out on top. Last 8 laps or so Kimi closed a 5+ sec gap down to 0.5s on Hamilton, the Ferrari's were better under braking and in straight line speed which made Kimi make up ground while Massa had an awful drive.

This season is going to be a cracker..good old Ferrari vs McLaren, tbh the other teams look nowhere near them!

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