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-- Do you support racial profiling of Arabs/Muslims?
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a few of the posts here are trying to count muslim terrorist acts vs non-muslim acts of terror.
Does this mean if the statistics were to prove one group was higher risk of such acts you do support profiling or not?
Males pay higher insurance premiums on cars because statistics prove the risk. Is that discrimination?
I'm still not convinced race is going to skew the overall score of terrorism risk that much, there must be many more signigicant factors.
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| Originally posted by tubby a few of the posts here are trying to count muslim terrorist acts vs non-muslim acts of terror. Does this mean if the statistics were to prove one group was higher risk of such acts you do support profiling or not? Males pay higher insurance premiums on cars because statistics prove the risk. Is that discrimination? I'm still not convinced race is going to skew the overall score of terrorism risk that much, there must be many more signigicant factors. |
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| Originally posted by tubby a few of the posts here are trying to count muslim terrorist acts vs non-muslim acts of terror. Does this mean if the statistics were to prove one group was higher risk of such acts you do support profiling or not? Males pay higher insurance premiums on cars because statistics prove the risk. Is that discrimination? I'm still not convinced race is going to skew the overall score of terrorism risk that much, there must be many more signigicant factors. |
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| Originally posted by NeoPhono In the end I don't know about statistics, but publicity-wise, middle eastern terrorists definitely have the advantage. You have a very present "threat" on the minds of the American people and they want something done about it. |
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| Originally posted by Lilith Publicity is all they've got. I mean really with a 350 or something billion a year defence budget which outstrips the combined spending of the rest of the world put together, surveilance systems able to read a licence plate off a car 75km up and enough warships, bombers and nukes to level a very, very large country which is capable of defending itself. Security services yanking people off the streets in foreign countries and selective missile attacks on any terrorist infrastructure anywhere in the world in a couple of hours notice, enough scanning and surveilance gear at every airport to tell you anything short of what anyone going through them has on them... And they still can't feel safe? It's passed the point of feeling naturally frightened of some arab chap with an AK47 or boxcutter. It is at the level of shrieking, scared out of your wits paranoia! And it starts from the top down, everytime that idiot opens his mouth theres three things he talks about. War, Terror, Security Thats all this bloody idiot talks about, all the time, every time. War, is having people running around your streets, shooting up your people and a serious threat of annexation. Doing it in someone elses backyard is a Police Action Terror, people hate the US for lots of reasons, ignoring the fact that they do very little in regards to ammend or right the wrongs of the past that caused such resentment in the future. Security, if 300something billion doesnt buy you that, need to start looking for a better supplier... |
A start at the top to control what is essentially a hysterical reaction by the use of language might be a start, that way you dont have anyone with brown skin in an airport hauled off to a room for a few hours 'detention' while they check everything about you and rip your luggage to bits.
It's at this point, they either find something or they dont and usually they don't hurl your ass back out with not so much as an apology which causes the resentment. Having to put up with it on a continous basis will cause genuine resentment and increase the sympathy for the 'terrorists' overseas because theres genuine reason to believe that youre not really living in a democratic nation, but rather a totalitarian one.
There will eventually be some kind of backlash over the isolation and harrassment of minority groups in any country that gets this kind of treatment. It will also deliver a bit of blunt trauma to the head of any kind of civilised integration by them, they wont want to be a part of the US, why would they? Theyre marginalised, civil rights abused and made to feel like theyre a threat to everyone else, thats a terrible amount of burden to place on anyone. May as well just tattoo 'KILLER' on their forehead and make them wear an armband or patch on their clothes.
And rather than having potential 'friendlys' the communities within the US, you've now got an entire generation who's been harrassed and niggled at every step of their life by the authorities.
Thus losing a vital bit in the chain of genuine intelligence, which is what the internal security services should be doing instead of running around as a knee-jerk, hysteria services jumping on everyone.
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| Originally posted by Lilith Publicity is all they've got. I mean really with a 350 or something billion a year defence budget which outstrips the combined spending of the rest of the world put together, surveilance systems able to read a licence plate off a car 75km up and enough warships, bombers and nukes to level a very, very large country which is capable of defending itself. Security services yanking people off the streets in foreign countries and selective missile attacks on any terrorist infrastructure anywhere in the world in a couple of hours notice, enough scanning and surveilance gear at every airport to tell you anything short of what anyone going through them has on them... And they still can't feel safe? It's passed the point of feeling naturally frightened of some arab chap with an AK47 or boxcutter. It is at the level of shrieking, scared out of your wits paranoia! And it starts from the top down, everytime that idiot opens his mouth theres three things he talks about. War, Terror, Security Thats all this bloody idiot talks about, all the time, every time. War, is having people running around your streets, shooting up your people and a serious threat of annexation. Doing it in someone elses backyard is a Police Action Terror, people hate the US for lots of reasons, ignoring the fact that they do very little in regards to ammend or right the wrongs of the past that caused such resentment in the future. Security, if 300something billion doesnt buy you that, need to start looking for a better supplier... |
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Actually the wording is terrible in parts but I was in a rush with lots of other things, but I'll leave it there anyway.
Its sort of sad in way that the US doesnt have the leader it deserves to have, compared to past ones which where up there with some genuinely intelligent people from any other field its quite a shame.
But no, not the current one.
He's a cheerleader, up on the plinth banging on about war, terror and security, especially war, he likes that word. But its fairly obvious he bears no emotional or anxiety himself from the war even though theres plenty of references every time he opens his mouth.
Especially if you take a real war leader in a real war like Roosevelt to compare him with, that man literally died at his post for the US and dragged it out of the recession bigger and badder than ever.
Bush couldnt organise a pissup in the brewery so he falls back to mouthing off insensibly and playing on people fears to try and keep the shambles thats left of his presidency intact.
At this point, I wonder who should and could take the first step towards more normal relations. Even if the US leadership wasn't inept, I don't know if they could. A lessening of efforts by the US would just be perceived as weakness and a victory for Islamic extremists. I'd like to think there would be a let down on their hatred, but with all the rhetoric that's been put out there, I see little chance for that happening. On the other side of the coin, I don't see Islamic extremists ever taking the first step either. How can a group that believes it's fighting a war for God, in which the only means of victory is the death of infidels, ever become more moderate? I just don't see them throwing their hands up and saying, "sorry God, can't do it, weren't not going to kill them for you after all."
It's a horrible situation and I don't know what the hell should happen to resolve this. You have one side that believes what they are doing is right because it preserves life and liberty, on the other hand you have a group that believes what they are doing is right because God tells them so.
I personally don't know how you appease a group where the demands are either; your death or complete abandonment of religion and conversion to theirs. Their hatred may have stemmed from more benign circumstances, but has reached a point where I don't know if dialog could any longer be effective.
I guess I'm just an eternal pessimist through.
At first I say racially profile the hell out of Muslims. But after thinking logically, not all Muslims are bad, especially not in developed countries. So it's a grey area for me. But realistically if there is a current group of people reeking havoc on society, there deserves some probing on a broader population, especially if it is almost exclusively one group of people.
Let me tell you something (and yeah I'm wasted right now), if there were a group of butt-pirate fags killing people, I would be down with the gov't profiling me because I'm a fag, but I have nothing to hide since I don't kill anyone. My theory is if you got no guilt, who cares if people are watching you (unless they wrongfully convict you of something you didn't do, which happens to some Muslims and that's fucked up.)
I got so wasted toonight and one thing I learn, Muslims really aren't that bad compareed to white people. Jeez, talk about pretentious fuckin pricks. At least Muslims are receptive when I hit on them (well the gay ones are, never met a straight one).
p.s. i didn't read anyone's post of course in this thread. that would just give me a headache and I already threw up twice tonight...
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| Originally posted by Jake Benson p.s. i didn't read anyone's post of course in this thread. that would just give me a headache and I already threw up twice tonight... |
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| Originally posted by Fir3start3r uh...thanks for your contribution? |
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| Originally posted by Jake Benson Shaolin Z asked me a question and I answered. What do you want, a novel? Btw, the throw up comment doesn't refer to anyone posting, but rather the fact that I mixed the wrong drinks and have been throwing up since then (mostly at the club). |
Unreal ... nearly 40 percent of people support racial profiling???? What a great forum this is, there are so many neo-cons and republicans and American government lovers in here.
Yeah, slap those laws on the innocent people. Strip the freedoms. Wear a special arab emblem on your arm to be visible in public clearly at all times, too 
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Yeah, slap those laws on the innocent people. Strip the freedoms. Wear a special arab emblem on your arm to be visible in public clearly at all times, too. |
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| Originally posted by Capitalizt Man you're just full of good ideas today. |
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| Originally posted by jdat ever heard of Oklahoma City bombing? oh wait it didn't involve planes... but a big truck I guess that invalidates the notion ... and there was no suicide commited there! They caught the bad guy! aka all whitie crackies are good guys  |
I believe racial profiling is just a lazy measure and not anything near a real solution to stopping an attack from occurring. If the attackers know that the places they wish to attack are profiling, they'll just get someone who looks nothing like them that still hates that country to carry off the actual attack, possibly someone who has nothing to lose and may want to commit suicide anyway.
Remember that the govt not only must do, but also be seen doing something about national security.
A lot of people are scared of these suicide bomber terrorist types. So yeah. Racial profiling probably isn't going to do much, but it will make some Americans feel safer.
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| Originally posted by sterilis again you fail to read properly. the words being suicide bomber |
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| Originally posted by Capitalizt Man you're just full of good ideas today. |
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| Originally posted by Magnetonium Unreal ... nearly 40 percent of people support racial profiling???? What a great forum this is... |
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No, I have better idea. After the next terrorist attack(s) take(s) place, let's make all American muslims carry special identification. Wait, that's a little too politically correct. Let's strip these f***ing sand******s of their citizenship, including the ones who were born here. Hold on, that's being "soft" on terrorism. Just toss all those sand******s in concentratin camps and stuff them gas chambers. Problem solved 
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After the next attack we're ALL getting chips in our arms.
Don't worry guys, they're already a step ahead of you:
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Halliburton Concentration Camps by Debra - repost Saturday, Feb. 04, 2006 at 5:27 PM detention - concentration - you explain the symantics....... Homeland Security To Build Detention Camps In The United States Submitted by rob on Wed, 2006-01-25 04:55 By Business Editors (c) 2006 Business Wire ARLINGTON, Va.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jan. 24, 2006--KBR announced today that the Department of Homeland Security's (DHS) U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) component has awarded KBR an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) contingency contract to support ICE facilities in the event of an emergency. KBR is the engineering and construction subsidiary of Halliburton (NYSE:HAL). With a maximum total value of $385 million over a five-year term, consisting of a one-year based period and four one-year options, the competitively awarded contract will be executed by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Fort Worth District. KBR held the previous ICE contract from 2000 through 2005. "We are especially gratified to be awarded this contract because it builds on our extremely strong track record in the arena of emergency operations support," said Bruce Stanski, executive vice president, KBR Government and Infrastructure. "We look forward to continuing the good work we have been doing to support our customer whenever and wherever we are needed." The contract, which is effective immediately, provides for establishing temporary detention and processing capabilities to augment existing ICE Detention and Removal Operations (DRO) Program facilities in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs. The contingency support contract provides for planning and, if required, initiation of specific engineering, construction and logistics support tasks to establish, operate and maintain one or more expansion facilities. The contract may also provide migrant detention support to other U.S. Government organizations in the event of an immigration emergency, as well as the development of a plan to react to a national emergency, such as a natural disaster. In the event of a natural disaster, the contractor could be tasked with providing housing for ICE personnel performing law enforcement functions in support of relief efforts. ICE is one of three agencies that make up the Border and Transportation Security (BTS) Directorate of the DHS. The mission of the BTS Directorate is to secure the nation's air, land and sea borders. ICE, the largest investigative arm of the DHS, is responsible for identifying and shutting down vulnerabilities in the nation's border, economic, transportation and infrastructure security. KBR is a global engineering, construction, technology and services company. Whether designing an LNG facility, serving as a defense industry contractor, or providing small capital construction, KBR delivers world-class service and performance. KBR employs more than 60,000 people in 43 countries around the world. Halliburton, founded in 1919, is one of the world's largest providers of products and services to the petroleum and energy industries. The company serves its customers with a broad range of products and services through its Energy Services Group and KBR. Visit the company's World Wide Web site at http://www.halliburton.com. Robwire.com |
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February 4, 2006 Halliburton Subsidiary Gets Contract to Add Temporary Immigration Detention Centers By RACHEL L. SWARNS WASHINGTON, Feb. 3 � The Army Corps of Engineers has awarded a contract worth up to $385 million for building temporary immigration detention centers to Kellogg Brown & Root, the Halliburton subsidiary that has been criticized for overcharging the Pentagon for its work in Iraq. KBR would build the centers for the Homeland Security Department for an unexpected influx of immigrants, to house people in the event of a natural disaster or for new programs that require additional detention space, company executives said. KBR, which announced the contract last month, had a similar contract with immigration agencies from 2000 to last year. The contract with the Corps of Engineers runs one year, with four optional one-year extensions. Officials of the corps said that they had solicited bids and that KBR was the lone responder. A spokeswoman for Immigration and Customs Enforcement, Jamie Zuieback, said KBR would build the centers only in an emergency like the one when thousands of Cubans floated on rafts to the United States. She emphasized that the centers might never be built if such an emergency did not arise. "It's the type of contract that could be used in some kind of mass migration," Ms. Zuieback said. A spokesman for the corps, Clayton Church, said that the centers could be at unused military sites or temporary structures and that each one would hold up to 5,000 people. "When there's a large influx of people into the United States, how are we going to feed, house and protect them?" Mr. Church asked. "That's why these kinds of contracts are there." Mr. Church said that KBR did not end up creating immigration centers under its previous contract, but that it did build temporary shelters for Hurricane Katrina evacuees. Federal auditors rebuked the company for unsubstantiated billing in its Iraq reconstruction contracts, and it has been criticized because of accusations that Halliburton, led by Dick Cheney before he became vice president, was aided by connections in obtaining contracts. Halliburton executives denied that they charged excessively for the work in Iraq. Mr. Church said concerns about the Iraq contracts did not affect the awarding of the new contract. Representative Henry A. Waxman, Democrat of California, who has monitored the company, called the contract worrisome. "With Halliburton's ever expanding track record of overcharging, it's hard to believe that the administration has decided to entrust Halliburton with even more taxpayer dollars," Mr. Waxman said. "With each new contract, the need for real oversight grows." In recent months, the Homeland Security Department has promised to increase bed space in its detention centers to hold thousands of illegal immigrants awaiting deportation. In the first quarter of the 2006 fiscal year, nearly 60 percent of the illegal immigrants apprehended from countries other than Mexico were released on their own recognizance. Domestic security officials have promised to end the releases by increasing the number of detention beds. Last week, domestic security officials announced that they would expand detaining and swiftly deporting illegal immigrants to include those seized near the Canadian border. Advocates for immigrants said they feared that the new contract was another indication that the government planned to expand the detention of illegal immigrants, including those seeking asylum. "It's pretty obvious that the intent of the government is to detain more and more people and to expedite their removal," said Cheryl Little, executive director of the Florida Immigrant Advocacy Center in Miami. Ms. Zuieback said the KBR contract was not intended for that. "It's not part of any day-to-day enforcement," she said. She added that she could not provide additional information about the company's statement that the contract was also meant to support the rapid development of new programs. Halliburton executives, who announced the contract last week, said they were pleased. "We are especially gratified to be awarded this contract," an executive vice president, Bruce Stanski, said in a statement, "because it builds on our extremely strong track record in the arena of emergency management support." |
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