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-- *Updated* Shooting in Virginia school
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| Originally posted by Shakka Jesus Christ--is it possible to have any sort of meaningful discussion around here without devolving into a pissing war over George Bush? |
You know where this topic needs to go? Why are "quiet loners" always the psychos?
EDIT*If incidents like this keep on happening half of PDD will never lose their virgenities...
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| Originally posted by Dupz American children are more at risk from firearms than the children of any other industrialized nation. In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States. (Centers for Disease Control) quote: In a single year, 3,012 children and teens were killed by gunfire in the United States, according to the latest national data released in 2002. That is one child every three hours; eight children every day; and more than 50 children every week. And every year, at least 4 to 5 times as many kids and teens suffer from non-fatal firearm injuries. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics) quote: Between 1994 and 1999, there were 220 school associated violent events resulting in 253 deaths - - 74.5% of these involved firearms. Handguns caused almost 60% of these deaths. (Journal of American Medical Association, December 2001) quote: Between 1979 and 2001, gunfire killed 90,000 children and teens in America. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics) quote: American kids are 16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun, 11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun, and nine times more likely to die from a firearm accident than children in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control) quote: According to a report by the Joshephson Institute of Ethics (2000 Report Card: Report #1), 60% of high school and 31% of middle school boys said they could get a gun if they wanted to (April, 2001) |
^ The thing is that facts aren't always accurate.....Im going to get flamed for that
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| Originally posted by metalgearsolid ^ The thing is that facts aren't always accurate.....Im going to get flamed for that |
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| Originally posted by MisterOpus1 I'm more than happy to keep to the topic at hand, however when Q finds an opening to blame everyone BUT Bush for the Iraq debacle and wanting to get the hell outa there (i.e. the Democrats), you think I wouldn't respond? My point was not to be tangential to the topic at hand. Rather, I was trying to point out that I don't think gun control laws is the stronger issue to bring up that points towards mass murders right now, and I used the Iraq War and the daily mass killings taking place there for a larger context. |
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| Originally posted by Shakka That wasn't necessarily directed solely at you. |
Right on cue, the Phelps lunacy parade comes out of the woodworks. From Westboro Baptist Church (which I refuse to link):
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| "WBC will preach at the funerals of the Virginia Tech students killed on campus during a shooting rampage April 16, 2007. You describe this as monumental horror, but you know nothing of horror -- yet. Your bloody tyrant Bush says he is 'horrified' by it all. You know nothing of horror -- yet. Your true horror is coming. 'They shall also gird themselves with sackloth, and horror shall cover them; and shame shall be upon all faces, and baldness upon all their heads' (Eze. 7:18). Why did this happen, you ask? It's simple. Your military chose to shoot at the servants of God today, and all they got for their effort was terror. Then, the LORD your God sent a crazed madman to shoot at your children. Was God asleep while this took place? Was He on vacation? Of course not. He willed this to happen to punish you for assailing His servants." |
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| Originally posted by metalgearsolid You know where this topic needs to go? Why are "quiet loners" always the psychos? EDIT*If incidents like this keep on happening half of PDD will never lose their virgenities... |
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| Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Right on cue, the Phelps lunacy parade comes out of the woodworks. From Westboro Baptist Church (which I refuse to link): Unbelievable, yet predictable. Hmmm, no wonder one of the Phelps' daughters told me today that her family wants to know her location throughout the day at all times. Makes sense now. |
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| Originally posted by NeoPhono You guys do realize the overwhelming majority of gun crimes committed in the US are by guns that are acquired illegally, right? In other words, it wouldn't make any difference if you changed the constitution or made them illegal. The only thing that would change is that any semblance of being able to track and register guns and their owners would be completely lost and we would have absolutely no clue as to who had guns. Sorry folks, but the "genie" is out. Blame the ancient Chinese for inventing gunpowder in the first place if you need someone. There are guns now and there always will be, especially in the US which has had a torrid history with them. I find it ironic that many on these boards will bitch about the downfall of freedoms in the US, but have no problem saying that a part of our constitution should be changed because of the actions of a few. Not to get on a soapbox, but every freedom has a responsibility, and not all people decide to act responsibly. However, that does not mean the irresponsibility of a few should mean the freedom is erased for the many. Should slander, libel or "hate speech" from a few mean the first amendment should be removed? Should the acts of a few homicidal maniacs mean the second amendment should be removed? Should drunk drivers mean alcohol should be prohibited again, or what about cars? No. In each case you punish those who acted irresponsibly, while preserving the rights of the millions of individuals who choose to act responsibly. This country, this world, is so fickle. We jump on the latest and greatest news story, totally losing perspective. Who cares that out of a country of 300 million these events are rare? Who cares that we're talking about stripping a part of the Bill of Rights? Who cares that we're again arguing for "safety" over freedom? We only care that right now some crazy person killed 30+ people and we don't care what we do, as long as we do something. |
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| Originally posted by Lilith America is a angry place because of too much sugar in their diets, fairly liberal firearm ownership laws, a number of cultural quirks which has everyone hating each other to some extent and then add in a government keeping them all in fear of terrorists and anything else they can thing up to stay in power. It's a front row seat at the freakshow of humanity, add to that the people who do own guns are rarely shown how to use the damn things responsibly or for safety purposes so they don't shoot themselves. I really do think there would be a noticeable benefit for exacting background checks and training like owning a motorvehicle, which would involve a few days learning not to be an idiot with it. Buying it, walking out same day or a few days later, really is inviting accidental disaster, there's really not much you can do with things like someone going on a shooting rampage. However, it's such a rare event you should probably be better off watching what you eat and watching when you cross the road and watching where you're driving, rather than watching out for lunatics on a shooting rampage. Because those, will kill you. Cars and heart disease statistically wipe out tons of people before their time in a civilian environment. Sure, it's not as newsworthy as having your body parts perforated by hot lead, but it's ultimately just as fatal. |
Re: 33 Dead at VT Campus
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| Originally posted by ogvh5150 As many of you can attest; drugs such as marijuana, cocaine, mdma, lsd to name a few are illegal and are banned yet you people can score some get high whenever you can and scream from the rooftops when the "man" has got you down whenever you people want to legalize it. But when it comes to banning guns there are still people who manage (just like my drug analogy) to get a hold of a gun and there are people that cry from the rooftops to ban guns. Truth be told there are some that shouldn't have a weapon in their hands but there are some that should who could have protected the 32 victims. Those that claim there should be control do not see that the ones at the podium during the sound bites usually have armed guards or are armed themselves while us little people suffer at the hands of the criminals. |
And another fucking thing...
The gun that killed those 33 ppl was purchased legally! Maybe if guns were illegal, that Korean guy would have gotten his ass kicked and his money stolen by some thug that was pretending to sell him an illegal gun. Yeah it's a maybe, but maybe those 33 people would be alive, sans one or two he would have probably stabbed.
And all you gun fanatics really think those legal guns will help if the government wants to impose martial law against your wishes? Do you have tanks?
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| Originally posted by TheDemon 100% correct. Guns don't make you strong. I'll fight any mother****** hand to hand if they have a problem with me or my family.. |
.. then was jumped by 5 car loads of Asians in Houston. Oh it was a fair fight, even when it was apparent I was getting my ass kicked in by 5 little guys. Busted jaw, busted eye socket and nose smashed...focking tai chi b.s. I would of died that night... over what?? Machismo?? Until my bud, Ronnie, got the upper hand, then he was shot....died...gun shot wound to the chest.... EVER TRIED TO STOP THE BLEEDING ON A gun shot to the chest?? spurting out blood, red foam and a stench from death its self....
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| Originally posted by LazFX when the shit comes down, I do not want to be one of these people that bend backwards and allows the innocent to be prayed upon by the criminal mind. It tore my family up when my Aunt was killed in a Home Invasion in Houston.... her son, killed 2 of the 4 men that broke into their house...with a .45; he was later sued by the 2 dead guys families, and had to pay 45K to each family....... AMerica is not the Spoiled little Bitch you Non-US Citizens seem to believe. We are not stupid or naive..... We are our own Culture and guns have been a very big part of it. Saying to an Gun Having American that gun control would work is just about the same trying to get a Muslim to eat pork,, its just not going to happen |
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| Originally posted by pmoisse Good points, and the pork analogy sounds pretty accurate actually. I'm a bad person for lol'ing at it, aren't I? Though I have one question regarding the obviously distressing story about your Aunt. Why did the judge award $45k in penalties if the son was just defending the home? Strikes me as though there's some sort of double-standard (maybe not the right term). I know hindsight is 20/20, but would the thieves have taken $45 each worth of stuff? And add to that, your Aunt was killed!?!!? Why the $$$ penalty? Honestly, I'm not at all being critical of how your relative handled the matter. In the context of gun ownership defending the home, the kid did everything to help. Are Texas laws different from Florida ones which let people shoot first and ask later, so long as they can prove they were fearing for their life (which would have applied in the case of your Aunt for sure)? |
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| Border Patrol agents' case, House of Death go to the heart of Justice scandal By Bill Conroy, Posted on Fri Apr 13th, 2007 at 08:52:47 PM EST It seems the U.S. Attorney�s Office for the Western District of Texas, overseen by Johnny Sutton from his throne in San Antonio, has a PR problem when it comes to dealing with drug smugglers. In the high-profile case of the two Border Patrol agents in Texas who are now serving long prison terms for shooting a drug smuggler in the rear end, conservative media outlets are proclaiming that Sutton�s office showed special favor to the smuggler in order to ruin the lives of the agents. Likewise, in the House of Death mass murder case, an informant was shown special consideration by Sutton�s office after a run-in with Border Patrol agents in New Mexico, recent documents uncovered by Narco News show. The two Border Patrol agents at the center of the controversy in Texas were stationed near El Paso in February 2005 when one of them shot a drug smuggler in the butt cheek after a bungled apprehension attempt and then allegedly covered-up the evidence of the shooting. The agents (Ignacio Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean) were prosecuted by Sutton�s office, convicted by a jury of violating the smuggler�s civil rights and of covering up evidence, and each sentenced to more than a decade in prison. Sutton, in a Jan. 19 appearance on FoxNews, said the Border Patrol agents in this case �deliberately lied, deliberately covered-up � and filed false reports� about the shooting of the smuggler, an individual named Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila. Sutton also stressed that a jury convicted the agents based on the facts, which he alleged have been distorted by the media. The fate of Ramos and Compean is likely to continue to be a flashpoint in the divisive battle over immigration. Those on the right who have rallied to the agents� cause claim they are victims of the Bush administration�s pro-illegal immigration agenda and of its cozy relations with the rulers of Mexico. Such a conspiracy theory makes for sexy headlines in the world of political punditry. But could it be that there is a much more human-scale reason for Sutton�s aggressive prosecution of Ramos and Compean, and his kit-glove treatment of the drug mule Aldrete-Davila? It pays for a prosecutor to appear tough on crime, particularly when it comes to the alleged misconduct of law enforcers � such as Ramos and Compean. The payback can be even greater if it diverts the media spotlight away from the skeletons in the prosecutor�s own backyard. For evidence of that, we only need to turn to the House of Death mass murder case, which also was overseen by Sutton�s office. As you recall, in that case, a U.S. government informant helped to arrange, and even participated in, the murders of a dozen people in Juarez as part of a U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) operation targeting a narco-trafficking cell headed by Heriberto Santillan-Tabares. To date, not one U.S. law enforcer or prosecutor has been held accountable in a criminal court for their complicity in the House of Death murders. But you can never be to safe on that front, if you�re a powerful prosecutor working for a paranoid administration with a lot of political enemies. So when an opportunity presents itself to produce a script for the mainstream media that depicts you as being tough on law enforcement corruption, as it did with the case of Ramos and Compean, then a politically astute prosecutor naturally jumps at the opportunity. It�s the perfect way to divert attention away from your own bungled, and possibly criminal, handling of a quite separate law-enforcement corruption case that could ruin your career and deepen the political troubles of the administration you serve. And, as in the House of Death, if the ongoing cover-up implicates even high-level officials in the government, possibly even the White House, all the more reason to reach for a script that will divert attention away from your problems. So, Ramos and Compean become the perfect scapegoats for a politically motivated prosecution based not on a grand conspiracy to create a New World Order, but rather on the very human desire to protect your neck. In the wake of the U.S. Attorney purge, and its charges of politically motivated prosecutions, is that such a far-fetched speculation? But as with every plan of man, the world always has its own way. And now Sutton and his boss, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, face a major backlash � on the right due to the Ramos and Compean case, and on the left due to the recent U.S. Attorney purge. But ironically, should these esteemed leaders take a fall from their wall due to their political miscalculations, it can be argued that a pair of drug smugglers, and the House of Death, helped to push them off their perch. Tough on crime In the House of Death case, court documents obtained by Narco News show (similar to the case of Ramos and Compean) that Border Patrol agents early on apprehended a key player, Guillermo Ramirez Peyro, for attempting to smuggle dope across the U.S. border. And just as in the Ramos and Compean case, the drug smuggler Ramirez Peyro (who also happened to be a U.S. government informant) received favorable treatment, approved at high levels in Washington, D.C. This was done in order to protect an ongoing narco-trafficking investigation. Importantly in this case, at the time Border Patrol agents caught up with Ramirez Peyro, he allegedly was acting on his own and had not informed his U.S. government handlers (at the time both DEA and ICE) of his freelance dope smuggling enterprise. SOURCE |
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| Originally posted by NeoPhono You guys do realize the overwhelming majority of gun crimes committed in the US are by guns that are acquired illegally, right? In other words, it wouldn't make any difference if you changed the constitution or made them illegal. The only thing that would change is that any semblance of being able to track and register guns and their owners would be completely lost and we would have absolutely no clue as to who had guns. Sorry folks, but the "genie" is out. Blame the ancient Chinese for inventing gunpowder in the first place if you need someone. There are guns now and there always will be, especially in the US which has had a torrid history with them. I find it ironic that many on these boards will bitch about the downfall of freedoms in the US, but have no problem saying that a part of our constitution should be changed because of the actions of a few. Not to get on a soapbox, but every freedom has a responsibility, and not all people decide to act responsibly. However, that does not mean the irresponsibility of a few should mean the freedom is erased for the many. Should slander, libel or "hate speech" from a few mean the first amendment should be removed? Should the acts of a few homicidal maniacs mean the second amendment should be removed? Should drunk drivers mean alcohol should be prohibited again, or what about cars? No. In each case you punish those who acted irresponsibly, while preserving the rights of the millions of individuals who choose to act responsibly. This country, this world, is so fickle. We jump on the latest and greatest news story, totally losing perspective. Who cares that out of a country of 300 million these events are rare? Who cares that we're talking about stripping a part of the Bill of Rights? Who cares that we're again arguing for "safety" over freedom? We only care that right now some crazy person killed 30+ people and we don't care what we do, as long as we do something. |
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| Originally posted by Fir3start3r Gack |
.
^
this man, a Holocaust survivor, was killed as he barricaded his classroom door with his body while all his students jumped out of a second story window to safety...on National Holocaust Rememberance Day. Prof. Librescu, a true hero.
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| "I saw your husband still standing there. He was holding the door closed and looking over his shoulder to make sure everybody else was safe. It was the bravest thing I have ever seen and I will always remember his courage," |
There's a very stronge weaponry lobby in USA
for making rifles
its words is
�More gun control, less crime�
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| Originally posted by Q5echo this man, a Holocaust survivor, was killed as he barricaded his classroom door with his body while all his students jumped out of a second story window to safety...on National Holocaust Rememberance Day. Prof. Librescu, a true hero. |
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| Originally posted by Dupz although pro and anti gun lobbyists will never agree on the issue, i think it's fair to say that this dude can unanimously be regarded as a fukn superhero. |
egyptian researcher and lebanese students from the victimes
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