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-- Intifada 2002
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i've read post after post from Israelis and Americans. The thing that suprises me I have never heard the words SHAME. Because thats all you should feel.


Lets call a spade a spade. Your army, the right wingers and the Settlers never wanted peace. Never. They never accepted the Oslo accords. You wanted to destroy the Palestinians, any chance of a viable government and their basic infrastructure. While else would your army destroy civil records. And the current american administration fully support you whilst pretending to the world that they actual want peace.

Everyone knows where you stand America. No matter what atrocity Israel commits, theres America right by your side. And you wonder why the entire world hates you. At least the Russians and Chinese never pretend to take the moral high ground.

People will not forget Jenin. It will be remembered just as Masada or the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising are remembered.

And for those who like quotes heres a real good one for you, i think the guy who said it might have been Jewish

"He who lives by the sword, Dies by the sword."

quote:

Lets call a spade a spade. Your army, the right wingers and the Settlers never wanted peace. Never. They never accepted the Oslo accords. You wanted to destroy the Palestinians, any chance of a viable government and their basic infrastructure. While else would your army destroy civil records. And the current american administration fully support you whilst pretending to the world that they actual want peace.

If Israel really wanted that, why haven't they done so already?
Israel has both the resources and enough man-power to do so. Yet they haven't done that.
Before posting something, put some thought into that.

What a retard

OK RebeL9, prepare for the assault.

You are a blind maniac, you are stupid, ignorant, and HATEFUL, you insult everyone on this board (and then accuse others of being "lowlife" because they're not very nice to you -- how pathetic), you are a sad prejudiced asshole who is in denial of everything going on, you distort the truth and your posts are full of LIES.

I suggest you calm down, chill out, take a few pills if you must, change your pathetic arrogant attitude, refrain from extreme insults, and re-consider the shit that you call "your life."

Good luck in your endeavors.

quote:

Originally posted by RebeL9 still it doesnt give the sionists the right to call all palestinians "terrorists". fools

They don't.. read army protocol, they only consider those who are terrorist enemies.. all the other Palestinians are civilians in their context, no matter how hard it is to belief.

Secondly, depsite the fact that you are blinded by your Nazisim.. we can see you can't even understand a simple video. The video shot was of Israeli forces entering a home so they can search it for weapons/terrorist, but primarly so they can avoid passage in the bobby-trapped streets (in Jenin this didn't work, as the terrorist bobby-trapped the houses with the civilians in them already.. hence the 'massacre'). Anyway the women was injured after she refused to open the door after repetated crys to do so, and then when she decieded to open the door the Israelis blew it open apparently at the same instant, unaware, and she was then injured. There was indeed a failure there as no medic, or ambulance was called to treat her.

But military operatoins are never perfect, this is why Israel used it as its last option. What do you expect war to be this nice pretty, beautiful thing?

Thirdly, Izzy is right, and the reasons he stated disprove your similar analogy to Nazis (which I know you aspire to). Yet I can draw a similar analogy to Europe, when it did nothing to help the Jews resist while being massacred by the Nazis back in WWII, and they are doing nothing now either... resisting helping the Jews as the fight against being massacred. It seems you are the one with a short memory.

quote:

cweb:Sharon actions on the whole Israel folk. Like every other country ruled by a criminal, the folk is lied to and many guys in Israel have no clue what happen in Jenin or Ramlallah or wherever. Blame Sharon, he deserves it 100%

First of all you have no clue what happened in Jenin. The Israeli folk have a much better understanding of what happened there, and the red cross knows exactly (they were let in to remove the bodies.. they are really the only true unbiased human rights watchers out there).

Secondly, it is not proven that Sharon is a criminal of any sort. Time once called him a war criminal in their magazine, so he sued them for slander, and he won. It would help if you kept an open minded, and believe that a man is innocent till proven guilty. And if you think he is guilty there should be overwhelmning evidence to support this (Arafat for instance I do consider a terrorist, as there is a lot of evidence supporting this).

You must also recall that Sharon is the freely elected leader of the Israeli people, and has only served for just over a year. Although you may think the Israeli people don't support him they do.

quote:

Your army, the right wingers and the Settlers never wanted peace. Never. They never accepted the Oslo accords. You wanted to destroy the Palestinians, any chance of a viable government and their basic infrastructure.

The same Army that came from there General Rabin, who put the Oslo Accords on the table and offered them to the Palestinians? The same army that came from there General Barak, who offered 95% of all the demands to the Palestinians in camp david?

I have a stronger case saying the army always wanted peace then your argument.

The settlers and the right-wingers at the time had the forsight that giving the Palestinians their own autonomy via the accords would only spawn more hate and terrorism towards Israel. And guess what? they had the correct forsight, as they were completely right!

If Israel wanted to destroy the Palestinians they can do it now, tommorow, or the 30+ years they had up till know. Why are they not doing it? I am waiting for an answer...

Yoepus
those that live with terrorists, die with terrorists

yeah yeah sharon is not a war criminal...do you believe in Santa Claus? Henry Kissinger is a war criminal as well, but in some heads he is the true warrior of peace.

Now let me tell you this: I honestly dont believe that YOU as Israelis living in a Israel town and have no connection to Jenin do know more about Jenin than me! You just hear what that Sharon guy tells you. You are more in danger no read one-sided comment than me (I have read a lot of pro-Israel stuff). You are probably a high interest guy and read other stuff, than ok you know more than me, but if you are just a normal guy i dont believe it.

as for the not-total destruction of the palistenean folk: yes they have the power and they could do it. But its OBVIOUS they cant do it so obviously that every man and every woman can see it. Even the USA could not longer stand by Israel if Israel do what they are capable of. Its much easier to force the Palis out with economic sanctions and forced settlement, etc than just bombing the shit out of everyone.

what Europe should help Israel? They should help stop Israel in the first case. The reason they dont do anything is a) they have not the power without the help of USA and b) especially for Germany, they simple dont DARE because of their history. Can you imagine when a German soldier shots down an Israeli one? Out of one corner there will be flames and "Nazi" slogans all over.

@Eugene: please cam down too. no need to assault someone, what should i have done with tranzeformer or whatever his name is?

quote:

Originally posted by Durafei If Israel really wanted that, why haven't they done so already? Israel has both the resources and enough man-power to do so. Yet they haven't done that. Before posting something, put some thought into that.

That's retarted!
Is that the way you look at it?
That Israel can easily wipe them out if they wanted.
That shows alot of moral value, doesn't it?
Whether they wanted to or not, they can't do such a thing.
Do you get what i'm trying to say?

As I said, if Israel wanted to, they would destroy Palestines. Key word is WANTED.

Palestines WANT to destroy Israel, but they can't!! They are brainwashed from early childhood that they will go to heaven if they will suicide bomb and kill a few Israeli's in process.

Where is the moral value??

quote:

Originally posted by Durafei Palestines WANT to destroy Israel, but they can't!! They are brainwashed from early childhood that they will go to heaven if they will suicide bomb and kill a few Israeli's in process.

No they are not 'brainwashed'. Yes the bombers are brainwashed, but that's it. They don't just kill themselves cuz 'oh, i can got to heaven this way'
It's not that simple.

The palestinians don't want Israel, true, but why do think?

The Israelies don't want the palestinians either!

quote:

Originally posted by Tranex02 No they are not 'brainwashed'. Yes the bombers are brainwashed, but that's it. They don't just kill themselves cuz 'oh, i can got to heaven this way' It's not that simple. The palestinians don't want Israel, true, but why do think?

that is such BS, they arent brainwashed? you must be kidding me the official textbooks for Palestinian school children (published by the Palestinian Ministry of Education) are innundated with anti-semetic messages and praise of martyrdom and Jihad (read: suicide bombings). http://www.edume.org/reports/index.htm

quote:

"Islam has forbidden flight from the battle and regards this as a grave sin. (Islamic Education for Eighth Grade #576 p. 176)

Eighth graders are told that peace is morally wrong.

quote:

"Determine what is the subject, and what is the predicate, in the following sentences: -The Jihad is a religious duty of every Muslim man and woman." (Our Arabic Language for Fifth Grade #542, p. 167)

Fifth graders are taught that they have a duty to fight religious wars in their grammar lessons.

quote:

"...Martyred Jihad fighters are the most honored people, after the Prophets..." (Reader And Literary Texts for Tenth Grade #607, p. 103)

Tenth graders are assured blessing and honor as martyrs.
Obviously, Israeli children also have pro-Israeli propaganda in their classroom and are raised in a somewhat (I am sure that it varies family by family and city by city.) anti-Arab society, but they are not trained to hate and kill Palestinian civilians. With such inculcation by the PLO, no wonder one of the six suicide bombers in the span of six days were under 22 years old and one was a 18-year-old girl.

how about the fact that there is no freedom of press in palesinian controlled areas? they get force fed the same messages day after day.

quote:

The Israelies don't want the palestinians either!

then how do you explain the fact that the israelis offered them a country with 97% of the territories and east jerusalem as there capitol? how about the fact that we have formal peace with jordan and egypt? no problems with them. those who want peace will get it, israel does, btw the palestians have represented themselves since ths start of the intifada i cant say that they do.

Good post Izzy. Some people just aren't willing to open their eyes and see the what's really going on. I bet someone is going to pick apart your post sentence by sentence, saying that "those books aren't used anymore" "Sharon took them away" Bla bla bla bla. Just let them believe what they want to. The facts are right infront of them, it is up to them whether or not they will except those facts or if they are so far into denial that they will only listen to and believe 100% in the statements that support their side. Alot of people seem to make this issue into a one sided "its their fault" and "we are the inocent ones". Im guilty of that as well. I just think that its important to listen to the other side to see where their coming from, eventhough we might not agree.

:lol:

please.. its not a fact that palestinians dislikes iraelis, its not a fact that israelis dislikes palestinians

and please, israelis are just as bad as palestinians.. but to see that you have to be from europe or china or some shit like that, a place where you are not brainwashed by neither arabic, israeli or american propaganda, but you have an objective view on the matter

which lots of you guys dont have.... some of you say israelis are angels and palestinians devils.. LOL!!!!! that is so childish, you people need to get educated

other israelis only think about themselves and how they are the victims... think about this, there are ALOT of palestinian families that dont want this war, that dont have nothing against the israelis and they suffer as you guys as well... you are not alone with being victims

and for the last time.. Ariel Sharon is one of the biggest criminals ever, from a war hero to a war criminal.. im sorry, but he is and he needs get put in prison, as do yasser arafat, the whole place needs a restart.

end this stupid discussion, you are not leading anywhere.. you cant accept other people, nor their opinions, so shut up, listen to some uplifting shit and fuck this thread.

the end

lets not also forget the fact that the israelis elected a warcriminal which by Amnesty International is listed as a true warcriminal playing in the same league as Milosevic.
That indicates how much peace Israelis are out for.
The only israeli leader that really wanted peace and could discuss it with arafat was Yhitzak Rabbin but a nationalistic sionist shot him.
Call me nazi, call be ignorant. But i know one thing. You israelis got no support from neither me, my friends and thousands other swedes (Swedens viceminister announced today that she bans israeli merchandise and she advise others to do the same)
You got no fuckin support at all from us.

Please read this Isreali's and then tell me how you can even fathom defending your filthy and disgusting excuse of a murderous military!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/wo...000/1937387.stm

Be ashamed of yourselves

P.S I hope that fat ball of shit Sharon burns to death

Consider the following scenario.

A person A is replaced by person B on a very well paid job. For that person A, kills person B. You are a son of person B. Now repeat this process a 100 times. What do you do?

Israel would've have NEVER EVER invaded Jenin, if it wasn't for a series of suicide bombings commited by Palestinians.

Anybody still remember how some asshole palestinian blew himself up at a disco? Freakin' DISCO !!! Do you still remember Israely's respose??? Israel continued on "cease fire". But Israel doesn't have unlimited patience. Eventually it comes to an end.
Palestinian's knew very well what they were getting into. There is a price for terrorism.

You alll most see the differnece between the folk and the leaders. The Hamas, etc. want war @this very moment, but Israeli religious fanatics want war as well.

oh and that UN-comment about Jenin is just Anti-Israel propaganda

Wow, I'm surprised this has gone 8 pages. I would have thought that things would have petered out by now.

(for the record, I support the existence of both Israel and Palestina as fully independent states)

quote:

Originally posted by Durafei Consider the following scenario. A person A is replaced by person B on a very well paid job. For that person A, kills person B. You are a son of person B. Now repeat this process a 100 times. What do you do? Israel would've have NEVER EVER invaded Jenin, if it wasn't for a series of suicide bombings commited by Palestinians. Anybody still remember how some asshole palestinian blew himself up at a disco? Freakin' DISCO !!! Do you still remember Israely's respose??? Israel continued on "cease fire". But Israel doesn't have unlimited patience. Eventually it comes to an end. Palestinian's knew very well what they were getting into. There is a price for terrorism.

umm.. are you stupid or anything? do you think palestinians give up their lives for nothing? of course the israeli has done just as bad stuff against the palestinians

of all these iraelis that got dead, of all these palestinians and americans, those that killed them were idiots, because ariel sharon, yasser arafat and george w. bush are still alive

quote:

Originally posted by cweb oh and that UN-comment about Jenin is just Anti-Israel propaganda

Yes I thought so too... I can disprove the arugment from the text above very easily, since I use critical reasoning and do not jump to conclusions.

Furthermore Amnesty International is biased, I have proven this in the last middle east thread. The fact is they are not an independent human rights watch organization, but indeed a independent political group. They put their political agenda way infront of their human rights. I can prove again as well if you like.

They do not critize both parties in equal light. If you have a standard and do not uphold it against all parties equally, it is not a standard.

The only one that does actually do a decent job of trying to be impartial and unbiased is the International Red Cross.

Yoepus
"Everyone is kneaded out of the same dough but not baked in the same oven."

quote:

umm.. are you stupid or anything? do you think palestinians give up their lives for nothing? of course the israeli has done just as bad stuff against the palestinians

Gimme 3 examples where Israeli people provoked Palestinians?

quote:

Originally posted by Durafei Gimme 3 examples where Israeli people provoked Palestinians?

They continue building settlements on palistinian land and pushing palestinian out.

They call the palestinians that live in israel "cancer cells that needs to be removed"

When palestinians try to go to their work they get kicked down and insulted by israeli soldiers

their pregnant woman cant even go to the hospital

do you want me to continue? you my friend, are really ignorant... and its a damn shame.. a war is never made by one side, its made by two.. israel is just as filthy as the palestinians, try to get that into your thick skull.. but you cant, because your israeli and dont think about all the shit you guys do.. all you think about is all the shit palestinians do.. i pity you...

All that stuff you listed is a result of suicide bombings. It is a result of Palestine provocation.

And none of that stuff you listed, KILLS Palestines !!!!!! IT doesn't KILL !!!
I can insult you, I can fight you, I can make your life a misery. But I don't deprive you of your chance to live ! I don't kill you !


SERIOUSLY, tell what would you do if you were Sharon? What would you do if Palestines continuously suicide bomb?? What would you do?

Hahaha.. boy, if you want to know the root of all this stuff you need to go way back in history..

If I was Ariel Sharon, what would I do? I would negotiate, stop keeping the palestinian leader as a hostage and do my very best to negotiate. If then and only then the palestinians really didnt show any interest in negotiation i wouldnt have a choice then

i would close all doors, give them their land and then not let a single palestinian get in israel

but i cant solve this, neither cant you, neither cant sharon.. seems like no one can, because there is no right nor wrong anymore in this story.. its just like a sandbox game.. "you started it" "no you did" "did not" "did too"

catch my point?

i agree with proximus.

Sharon just isn't taking the right steps.
Just now he refused a proposal made to him for international intervention.

The problem is Sharon is not a idiot in the way of meaning the good and doing the bad. He exactly knows what his actions lead and he WANTS Palisteneans to attack Isrealis so he could waive them out of Israel once it for all.

@yoepeus: I wouldnt call Amnesty International "biased". They are mabe a bit to "sensitive" but not "biased".

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