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-- Kindergarten Graduation Ceremony in Gaza
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| Originally posted by Yoepus I could say similarly: Israel's borders aren't illegal. Palestinians originated by terror and war crimes. Or: Syria's borders aren't illegal. Syria originated by terror and war crimes. Ah why note: Europe's borders aren't illegal. Europe originated by terror and war crimes. |
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| This logical fallacy is so exciting I can go on and on... but what's the point, there's no source, no proof, no backing up to your claim... Which one is that again? |
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| The Arab Peace Initiative, 2002 Official translation of the full text of a Saudi-inspired peace plan adopted by the Arab summit in Beirut, 2002. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Arab Peace Initiative The Council of Arab States at the Summit Level at its 14th Ordinary Session, Reaffirming the resolution taken in June 1996 at the Cairo Extra-Ordinary Arab Summit that a just and comprehensive peace in the Middle East is the strategic option of the Arab countries, to be achieved in accordance with international legality, and which would require a comparable commitment on the part of the Israeli government, Having listened to the statement made by his royal highness Prince Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz, crown prince of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, in which his highness presented his initiative calling for full Israeli withdrawal from all the Arab territories occupied since June 1967, in implementation of Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, reaffirmed by the Madrid Conference of 1991 and the land-for-peace principle, and Israel's acceptance of an independent Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital, in return for the establishment of normal relations in the context of a comprehensive peace with Israel, Emanating from the conviction of the Arab countries that a military solution to the conflict will not achieve peace or provide security for the parties, the council: 1. Requests Israel to reconsider its policies and declare that a just peace is its strategic option as well. 2. Further calls upon Israel to affirm: I- Full Israeli withdrawal from all the territories occupied since 1967, including the Syrian Golan Heights, to the June 4, 1967 lines as well as the remaining occupied Lebanese territories in the south of Lebanon. II- Achievement of a just solution to the Palestinian refugee problem to be agreed upon in accordance with U.N. General Assembly Resolution 194. III- The acceptance of the establishment of a sovereign independent Palestinian state on the Palestinian territories occupied since June 4, 1967 in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, with East Jerusalem as its capital. 3. Consequently, the Arab countries affirm the following: I- Consider the Arab-Israeli conflict ended, and enter into a peace agreement with Israel, and provide security for all the states of the region. II- Establish normal relations with Israel in the context of this comprehensive peace. 4. Assures the rejection of all forms of Palestinian patriation which conflict with the special circumstances of the Arab host countries. 5. Calls upon the government of Israel and all Israelis to accept this initiative in order to safeguard the prospects for peace and stop the further shedding of blood, enabling the Arab countries and Israel to live in peace and good neighbourliness and provide future generations with security, stability and prosperity. 6. Invites the international community and all countries and organisations to support this initiative. 7. Requests the chairman of the summit to form a special committee composed of some of its concerned member states and the secretary general of the League of Arab States to pursue the necessary contacts to gain support for this initiative at all levels, particularly from the United Nations, the Security Council, the United States of America, the Russian Federation, the Muslim states and the European Union. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For purposes of comparison, the following is an earlier draft discussed by Arab foreign ministers on 25 March, 2002, in advance of the summit: The Council of the Arab League, which convenes at the level of a summit on March 27-28, 2002 in Beirut, affirms the Arab position that achieving just and comprehensive peace is a strategic choice and goal for the Arab states. After the Council heard the statement of Crown Prince Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz in which he called for the establishment of normal relations in the context of a comprehensive peace with Israel, and that Israel declares its readiness to withdraw from the occupied Arab territories in compliance with United Nations resolutions 242 and 338 and Security Council resolution 1397, enhanced by the Madrid conference and the land-for-peace principle, and the acceptance of an independent, sovereign Palestinian state with al-Quds al-Sharif as its capital, the Council calls on the Israeli government to review its policy and to resort to peace while declaring that just peace is its strategic option. The Council also calls on Israel to assert the following: Complete withdrawal from the Arab territories occupied since 1967, including full withdrawal from the occupied Syrian Golan Heights and the remaining occupied parts of south Lebanon to the June 4, 1967 lines. To accept to find an agreed, just solution to the problem of Palestinian refugees in conformity with Resolution 194. To accept an independent and sovereign Palestinian state on the Palestinian lands occupied since June 4, 1967 in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and with Jerusalem (al-Quds al-Sharif) as its capital in accordance with Security Council Resolution 1397. In return, the Arab states assert the following: To consider the Arab-Israeli conflict over and to enter into a peace treaty with Israel to consolidate this. To achieve comprehensive peace for all the states of the region. To establish normal relations within the context of comprehensive peace with Israel. The Council calls on the Israeli government and the Israelis as a whole to accept this initiative to protect the prospects of peace and to spare bloodshed so as to enable the Arab states and Israel to coexist side by side and to provide for the coming generations a secure, stable and prosperous future. It calls on the international community with all its organisations and states to support the initiative. The Council calls on its presidency, its secretary general and its follow-up committee to follow up on the special contacts related to this initiative and to support it on all levels, including the United Nations, the United States, Russia, the European Union and the Security Council. |
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Originally posted by Yoepus  Actually you are wrong, its quiet a well known fact from the 1890s afterall, that the Jews really are trying to take over the whole world! source And just to through this thread back on topic; all this of course justifies brainwashing 5 years old into a cult of death, murder, and destruction. Horray!  |
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| Originally posted by M.Johan In one word: "We created terror among the Arabs and all the villages around. In one blow, we changed the strategic situation." the Israeli prime minister in 1977 Menachem Begin |
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| Originally posted by George Smiley It would be advantageous for those who wish to justify Israel's policy decisions and actions to explain why 5 year olds are being brainwashed to hate a nation and it's people simply by passing it off as some kind of "natural" hatred, when in actual fact I think everybody deep down knows that the bombs and the death and the disruption to their lives they experience everyday is a more valid explanation... |
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| Originally posted by M.Johan In one word: "We created terror among the Arabs and all the villages around. In one blow, we changed the strategic situation." |
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the Israeli prime minister in 1977 Menachem Begin The Source |
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The Source |
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| Not away from the topic bec. in Israel there's the same hatred teachings to the Israeli children against the arabs in their studing textbooks |
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| Originally posted by Yoepus Right your explanation obviously hits the nail on the head, because we see other severely oppressed people around the world behaving in the exact same brutal and inhuman matter |
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| Originally posted by George Smiley But the EU has stopped funding the PA (when Hamas got elected) and as far as I am aware there has been a severe lack of funds leading to wages not being paid for all walks of public life en mass, which would suggest the Arab countries have failed to come to the Palestinians aid as you suggest (and don't forget, barring Syria, the rest of the Arab states are on side with Israel so the only other source of funding would come from rogue Saudi Princes, Syria or possibly Iran, and I'm not sure they can match the financial clout of the EU and America) |
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| Originally posted by EvilTree In the long term, it benefits Arab nations to have Israel busy with Palestinian troubles, so I don't think Arab nations would have let Hamas or any other Palestinian govt crumble. |
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| Originally posted by George Smiley In what way would that benefit the Arab nations? And what evidence do you have to suggest the Arab nations will start to bank roll the PA, when everything that has actually happened suggests otherwise? Can you quote government officials where they state the policy you have suggested? |
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| Originally posted by Yoepus Actually that is two sentences. Your source does not have a source stating where/when Menachem Begin supposedly said this statement. For all we know it is most likely very much made up. All references on the internet I could find reference the same unreferenced source you quoted. Of course if I say: "We are fighting a war against an evil religion that must be won. -George Bush 2006" People will believe it even though it was never said. Perhaps there in lies the problem with most aspect of this conflict. The truth doesn't matter. |
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| Ya, that was the 2002 initiative; not 1996 which you claimed earlier. |
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| The Arab Peace Initiative The Council of Arab States at the Summit Level at its 14th Ordinary Session, Reaffirming the resolution taken in June 1996 at the Cairo Extra-Ordinary Arab Summit that a just and comprehensive peace in the Middle East is the strategic option of the Arab countries, to be achieved in accordance with international legality, and which would require a comparable commitment on the part of the Israeli government |
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| Originally posted by Yoepus Prove it, show me similar vidoe of Israeli kindergardners. Israel does not teach its kids violence in schools, quiet the opposite. I can tell you I was brainwashed with dreams of peace and humanity through the Israeli education system; most everyone I know who went for will tell you the same. But please, show me with some real facts, not some made up conjectuor that Israelis are as guilty in filling their children's minds with hate, brutality, and destruction. |
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| Jerusalem- Ma'an- The Committee of West Bank and Gaza Strip Settlement Rabbis issued a Jewish religious edict permitting the killing of innocent women and children, according to the Israeli newspaper Yedioth Aharonoth. According to the newspaper's electronic website, the religious edict was issued against the backdrop of Israeli aggression against Lebanon.The rabbis claimed that the edict was based on the Torah. According to the edict,"those who have mercy on the children in Gaza and Lebanon are tough with the children of Israel.' The rabbis called on crowds of Israelis to go to the "Haith Al Buraq", or the Western Wall as it is known by Israelis, to perform collective prayers on Monday afternoon to extricate Israel from the hardship that it is living in. |
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| Israeli Incitement Israel repeatedly, and falsely, alleges that Palestinian textbooks teach children hatred, violence, and jihad. But how are Israeli children taught to hate Arabs, and trained to kill them? Israeli daily newspaper Yedioth Ahronot, May 7th 2002, published a letter titled Dear Soldiers, Please Kill a Lot of Arabs. That came from Israeli children who sent such letters to Israeli soldiers serving in the Tulkarm area during the so-called Operation Defensive Shield . The letters sent by Israeli school students encouraged soldiers to disregard rules and regulations and to kill as many Arabs as possible. According to Yedioth Ahronoth , dozens of the letters were sent to soldiers, mostly from children in the 7th through 10th grades, who attend national religious schools. Ruth Firer and Sami Adwan, an Israeli and a Palestinian scholar, who conducted research comparing Palestinian and Israeli textbooks, March 2002, wrote about Israeli books:"These texts enhance religious-national education, strongly emphasizing the collective values connected to the history of the Jewish nation in 'their land' and God's promises to the Jews that give them an absolute right on the land. The land of Eretz Israel described in the books includes the territories of the PNA from 1967." A study by Daniel Bar-Tal of Tel-Aviv University, 124 Hebrew language books approved for use in 1994 by the Ministry of Education, were reviewed, The study concludes that "the majority of [Israeli school] books stereotype Arabs negatively." In one children s book, Bar-Tal offers this sampling, "We were lonely pioneers surrounded by a sea of enemies and murderers." In elementary school books, according to Bar-Tal, Arabs are often stereotyped negatively and portrayed as "uneducated people and enemies." In a report titled "Israeli Textbooks and Children s Literature Promote Racism and Hatred toward Palestinians and Arabs," free-lance journalist Maureen Meehan concluded that "Israeli school textbooks as well as children s storybooks, according to recent academic studies and surveys, portray Palestinians and Arabs as 'murderers,' 'rioters,' 'suspicious', and generally backward and unproductive. Direct delegitimization and negative stereotyping of Palestinians and Arabs are the rule rather than the exception in Israeli schoolbooks." (Washington Report for Middle East Affairs September 1999) A study presented at the hearing of the political committee of the European Parliament, 24 October 2003, titled "The attitude towards Palestinians in Israeli textbooks," by Dr. Nurit Elhanan, of the Hebrew University, revealed that "the Palestinians are absent from all textbooks, The Occupation is never mentioned, and the area where Palestinians live is presented in the maps either as an empty space referred to as 'an area without data' (Man and Space-maps) or it is incorporated into the state of Israel (The Geography of the land of Israel- maps). In both cases use of the term 'occupation' is out of the question, since you cannot occupy illegally what is yours anyway and you cannot occupy illegally an empty space." Dr. Elhanan added: "When reference is made to date in the West Bank it is only to Jewish colonies or to main cities like Nablus, Hebron or Beth Lehem as Israeli tourist sites (maps) In Israel today there is already a second generation of children who don t know there are occupation, illegal domination and illegal settlements." The Convention on the Rights of Child of November 1991, Article 2, obliges State Parties to respect and ensure the rights set forth in the present Convention to each child within their jurisdiction. Israel has repeatedly violated these rights and ignored it obligations. In its 20 November 2004 press release, Defense for Children International (DCI), appealed "to the international community and world leaders to abide by their declared commitment to protect the rights of all children, including the children of Palestine. We urge them to bring pressure on the Israeli government, to abide by international law and end the occupation which is incompatible with any declared commitment to promoting and protecting the basic human rights of all." In the same press release DCI reported that: "Since the start of the second Intifada on 29 September 2000, Palestinian children have borne the brunt of the upsurge in Israeli violence. Over the course of the past four years, more than 660 Palestinian children have been killed and almost 9,000 injured hundreds of whom have been left with permanent physical disabilities. Many thousands more are suffering psychological trauma from the daily horrors they witness. An estimated 3,000 children have been arrested during this Intifada, while currently there are still 335 children being held in Israeli prisons and detention centers." |
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| Israeli Textbooks and Children�s Literature Promote Racism and Hatred Toward Palestinians and Arabs By Maureen Meehan Israeli school textbooks as well as children�s storybooks, according to recent academic studies and surveys, portray Palestinians and Arabs as �murderers,� �rioters,� �suspicious,� and generally backward and unproductive. Direct delegitimization and negative stereotyping of Palestinians and Arabs are the rule rather than the exception in Israeli schoolbooks. Professor Daniel Bar-Tal of Tel Aviv University studied 124 elementary, middle- and high school textbooks on grammar and Hebrew literature, history, geography and citizenship. Bar-Tal concluded that Israeli textbooks present the view that Jews are involved in a justified, even humanitarian, war against an Arab enemy that refuses to accept and acknowledge the existence and rights of Jews in Israel. �The early textbooks tended to describe acts of Arabs as hostile, deviant, cruel, immoral, unfair, with the intention to hurt Jews and to annihilate the State of Israel. Within this frame of reference, Arabs were delegitimized by the use of such labels as �robbers,� �bloodthirsty,� and �killers,�� said Professor Bar-Tal, adding that there has been little positive revision in the curriculum over the years. Bar-Tal pointed out that Israeli textbooks continue to present Jews as industrious, brave and determined to cope with the difficulties of �improving the country in ways they believe the Arabs are incapable of.� Hebrew-language geography books from the 1950s through 1970s focused on the glory of Israel�s ancient past and how the land was �neglected and destroyed� by the Arabs until the Jews returned from their forced exile and revived it �with the help of the Zionist movement.� �This attitude served to justify the return of the Jews, implying that they care enough about the country to turn the swamps and deserts into blossoming farmland; this effectively delegitimizes the Arab claim to the same land,� Bar-Tal told the Washington Report. �The message was that the Palestinians were primitive and neglected the country and did not cultivate the land.� This message, continued Bar-Tal, was further emphasized in textbooks by the use of blatant negative stereotyping which featured Arabs as: �unenlightened, inferior, fatalistic, unproductive and apathetic.� Further, according to the textbooks, the Arabs were �tribal, vengeful, exotic, poor, sick, dirty, noisy, colored� and �they burn, murder, destroy, and are easily inflamed.� Textbooks currently being used in the Israeli school system, says Bar-Tal, contain less direct denigration of Arabs but continue to stereotype them negatively when referring to them. He pointed out that Hebrew- as well as Arabic-language textbooks used in elementary and junior high schools contain very few references either to Arabs or to Arab-Jewish relations. The coordinator of a Palestinian NGO in Israel said that major historical events hardly get a mention either. �When I was in high school 12 years ago, the date �1948� barely appeared in any textbooks except for a mention that there was a conflict, Palestinians refused to accept a U.N. solution and ran away instead,� said Jamal Atamneh, coordinator of the Arab Education Committee in Support of Local Councils, a Haifa-based NGO. �Today the idea communicated to schoolchildren is basically the same: there are winners and losers in every conflict. When they teach about �peace and co-existence,� it is to teach us how to get along with Jews.� Atamneh explained that textbooks used by the nearly one million Arab Israelis (one-fifth of Israel�s population) are in Arabic but are written by and issued from the Israeli Ministry of Education, where Palestinians have no influence or input. �Fewer than 1 percent of the jobs in the Education Ministry, not counting teachers, are held by Palestinians,� Atamneh said. �For the past 15 years, not one new Palestinian academic has been placed in a high position in the ministry. There are no Palestinians involved in preparing the Arabic-language curriculum [and] obviously, there is no such thing as affirmative action in Israel.� In addition, there are no Arabic-language universities in Israel. Haifa University, Atamneh points out, has had a steady 20 percent Arab student population for the past 20 years. �How can that figure have remained the same after all these years when the population in the north [of Israel] has grown to over 50 percent Arab?� Answering his own question, Atamneh rattles off statistics that reflect excellent high school scores among Arab students which he contrasts to their subsequent lower-than-average performance in Hebrew-language college entrance exams given by the state. �No major scholarships have ever been awarded to an Arab; there are no dorms for Arabs and no college-related jobs or financial aid programs. They justify this legal discrimination by the fact that we do not serve in the army. There are numerous blatant and official methods used to keep Palestinian Arabs out of the universities.� Absence of Palestinian Identity in Schoolbooks Dr. Eli Podeh, lecturer in the Department of Islamic Studies and Middle East History at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, says that while certain changes in Israeli textbooks are slowly being implemented, the discussion of Palestinian national and civil identity is never touched upon. �Passages from �experts� about the existence of a Palestinian identity were introduced, but in general it appeared that the textbook authors were not eager to adopt it,� said Dr. Podeh, adding that �the connection between Palestinians in Israel and Arabs in Arab countries is not discussed. Especially evident is the lack of a discussion on the orientation of Palestinians to the [occupied] territories. �While new textbooks attempt to correct some of the earlier distortions, these books as well contain overt and covert fabrications,� said Dr. Podeh. �The establishment has preferred�or felt itself forced�to encourage the cover-up and condemn the perplexity.� One Israeli public high school student told the Washington Report that the contents of the schoolbooks and the viewpoints expressed by some teachers indeed have a lasting negative effect on youngsters� attitudes toward Palestinians. �Our books basically tell us that everything the Jews do is fine and legitimate and Arabs are wrong and violent and are trying to exterminate us,� said Daniel Banvolegyi, a 17-year-old high school student in Jerusalem. �We are accustomed to hearing the same thing, only one side of the story. They teach us that Israel became a state in 1948 and that the Arabs started a war. They don�t mention what happened to the Arabs�they never mention anything about refugees or Arabs having to leave their towns and homes,� said Banvolegyi. Banvolegyi, who will be a high school senior this fall, and then will be drafted into the Israeli army next summer, said he argues with his friends about what he regards as racism in the textbooks and on the part of the teachers. He pointed out a worrisome example of how damaging the textbooks and prevailing attitudes can be. �One kid told me he was angry because of something he read or discussed in school and that he felt like punching the first Arab he saw,� said Banvolegyi. �Instead of teaching tolerance and reconciliation, the books and some teachers� attitudes are increasing hatred for Arabs.� Banvolegyi spoke about his schoolmates who, he says, �are dying to go into combat and kill Arabs. I try to talk to them but they say I don�t care about this country. But I do care and that�s why I tell them peace and justice are the only ways to work things out.� Racist Israeli Upbringing Considering what the schools have to offer, both Banvolegyi and Atamneh agree that the oral tradition is one of the few ways to get the story straight. �Unfortunately Israeli children�s books are not an option for promoting equality in this society,� said Atamneh, citing a book written by Israeli writer/researcher Adir Cohen called An Ugly Face in the Mirror. Cohen�s book is a study of the nature of children�s upbringing in Israel, concentrating on how the historical establishment sees and portrays Arab Palestinians as well as how Jewish Israeli children perceive Palestinians. One section of the book was based on the results of a survey taken of a group of 4th to 6th grade Jewish students at a school in Haifa. The pupils were asked five questions about their attitude toward Arabs, how they recognize them and how they relate to them. The results were as shocking as they were disturbing: Seventy five percent of the children described the �Arab� as a murderer, one who kidnaps children, a criminal and a terrorist. Eighty percent said they saw the Arab as someone dirty with a terrifying face. Ninety percent of the students stated they believe that Palestinians have no rights whatsoever to the land in Israel or Palestine Cohen also researched 1,700 Israeli children�s books published after 1967. He found that 520 of the books contained humiliating, negative descriptions of Palestinians. He also took pains to break down the descriptions: Sixty six percent of the 520 books refer to Arabs as violent; 52 percent as evil; 37 percent as liars; 31 percent as greedy; 28 percent as two-faced; 27 percent as traitors, etc. Cohen points out that the authors of these children�s books effectively instill hatred toward Arabs by means of stripping them of their human nature and classifying them in another category. In a sampling of 86 books, Cohen counted the following descriptions used to dehumanize Arabs: Murderer was used 21 times; snake, 6 times; dirty, 9 times; vicious animal, 17 times; bloodthirsty, 21 times; warmonger, 17 times; killer, 13 times; believer in myths, 9 times; and a camel�s hump, 2 times. Cohen�s study concludes that such descriptions of Arabs are part and parcel of convictions and a culture rampant in Hebrew literature and history books. He writes that Israeli authors and writers confess to deliberately portraying the Arab character in this way, particularly to their younger audience, in order to influence their outlook early on so as to prepare them to deal with Arabs. �So you can see that if you grew up reading or studying from these books, you�d never know anything else,� said Atamneh. �But in the case of Palestinians, we grow up 500 meters away from what used to be a town or village and is now a Jewish settlement. Our parents and grandparents tell us all about it; endlessly they talk about it. It�s the only way.� |
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| Originally posted by EvilTree Israel is the most hated nation, probably even more than US in Middle East, yes? Some nations have proven to back up terrorist/extremist nations, yes? Iran with Hezbollah, PLO I believe had Libya as backers before, etc. Someone is still shipping weapons to PLO and Hamas nowadays, somehow. It's just no one really said who's behind that. IIRC Al Jazeera poll said something like 50% of Arabs think Osama bin Laden is a cool guy. Imagine how many would support actions against Israel! BTW, here's an article with Saudi foreign minister saying that SA will give money to Hamas for humanitarian reason. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4742078.stm |
^^
Palestinians elect Hamas
Iranians elect Ahmadynajad
and the arabic societies assert with the arabian peace initiative
Robert Fisk
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| Fingerprints of history Gamal Nkrumah and Mohamed El-Sayed gauge the state of the world's most troubled region -- the Middle East -- with eminent author Robert Fisk Palestine is a different kettle of fish altogether. "The Islamic Movement Hamas didn't succeed because we (Western governments) didn't want them to succeed. We didn't want to talk to them. And they were under sanctions because the Western governments believe that those pesky Palestinians elected the wrong people. Western governments do not want democracy in the Middle East. We are quite happy to have dictators if they are obedient to us. We like them when they invade Iran, but not when they invade Kuwait. We liked Egypt until it nationalised the Suez Canal. Then we bombed Port Said, Ismailia and Suez. Because we have ideological as well as oil interests, we try constantly to refashion the fa�ade that allows us to support various regimes." Fisk continues: "Western governments want peoples [of the region] to elect political forces these governments like. The Palestinians didn't vote for an Islamic republic, rather they were sick of corruption. The way [Western governments] dealt with Arafat's regime made it bound to be corrupt. If the Palestinians had elected people Western governments had wanted they would have praised this democracy. Western governments and the European Union didn't want to give money to Hamas. They were used to giving it to a Palestinian Authority that was squandering it." Fisk concludes: "From the very beginning I said Oslo would be a tragedy." What about the new government of national unity bringing Fatah and Hamas together? "Should Hamas recognise the State of Israel? If Israel really wants peace, why don't they sit with Hamas and have a serious, mature discussion to agree on a formula that would work? The question is: Do we want peace or not? Why don't we refer back to UN Security Council Resolution 242 stating that Israel should withdraw from all the territories occupied in 1967?" |
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| Originally posted by George Smiley Hey 60 years ago the UK went to war with Germany! You can't base actions of the Arab states today on what they have done in the past as it's just irrelevent. |
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You're also falling into the trap of forming opinions on what the Arab governments do based on what their populations think - and I think we both know the Arab people are the last people to be consulted on how their governments act! Basically, all the Arab governments (bar PA, Syria and Iran if we count that) are on good (ish) working terms with the Israelis thanks to peace initiatives or otherwise are just too damn scared to incur their wrath. |
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Also, giving the Palestinians "humanitarian" aid is not the same as bankrolling the entire governmental operation, which is what the EU (with a little help from others) has been doing. |
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| Originally posted by EvilTree Last time I checked, Iranian revolution was a popular revolt against an unpopular regime. Get a few popular clerics to issue some fatwas, call the govt leaders apostates or whatever, stir up some biases and you get a pretty good recipe for a revolution. As much as tribal affiliation has huge influence on personal decisions, mullahs and other Islamic religious leaders have influence on general population too. |
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| But in essence, 'humanitarian' aid ends up being pretty much what EU funding was doing, which is to run govt orgs to provide infrastructure and basic govt services to avg Palestinians. |
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| If SA wouldn't fund PA 'military', I'm pretty sure Hamas and Fatah have their own sources of... discreet funding already in place. |
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| Originally posted by George Smiley That's brilliant. Your basing what goes on in Arab states by using a state that is non-Arab as an example. Either way it is irrelevant to the debate we were having which is whether or not the Arab states would fund the PA to the same level the EU did. And your answer? "Well if there was a revolution then they would" Fuckin nice one mate! |
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I am very interested to know where you get your information on EU funding to the PA from. Wait a minute, you just made that all up didn't you? It's based on nothing but assumption and that is why it is incorrect like pretty much everything else you've said (and will continue to do so as you prove below...) |
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See now you've completed the circle. First of all you know for a fact the Arab regimes will fill the EU's boots. Then after you've realised that's not actually the reality, you've changed the parameters to "military" aid (again something that is based purely on unsubstantiated assumptions by yourself) and are somehow trying to link the money the PA need to run as a government (as funded by the PA) to money Hamas and Fatah use to by weapons by saying they will "find it from somewhere" |
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Please, just stop posting if you're just gonna jump from one assumption to the next and completely forgetting what point it was you were trying to make in the first place. It's embarrassing! |
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| Originally posted by EvilTree YOU'RE the one that said EU was essentially bankrolling all PA govt funding. I was merely going by YOUR assumption. |
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| I dunno about you, but I'm in this forum for some discussion. Nothing personal. Belittling me strutting like you have a big cock isn't going to make your arguments better. Don't make it personal. |
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