J00F comments the current state of trance

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Posted by Nayil on Jul-10-2007 19:12:

quote:
Originally posted by RebeL9
oh just fuck you. god forbid if any DJ is being outspoken.

He has an album out. Judging by the reaction, you can make out the timing of the sudden outburst.

Perhaps I am being a little suspicious, but heres how I see it : New album launched and then these comments on what he thinks about trance, and how it is supposed to be done.

fuck me or not, I'll express my doubts for sure. It will be easy for both of us to support John if someone could come up with an explanation, or point where I'm seeing it wrong.

Posted by RebeL9 on Jul-10-2007 19:41:

quote:
Originally posted by Nayil
He has an album out. Judging by the reaction, you can make out the timing of the sudden outburst.

Perhaps I am being a little suspicious, but heres how I see it : New album launched and then these comments on what he thinks about trance, and how it is supposed to be done.

fuck me or not, I'll express my doubts for sure. It will be easy for both of us to support John if someone could come up with an explanation, or point where I'm seeing it wrong.

ok smart head. first of all it's not an album. it's a mix CD and it was released a few months ago, not the other week or so. besides this isn't his first compilation so it's not like a big sensation or something. besides those who have read his photo diary on his website aren't new to these kind of comments. J00F have several times in the past years said that trance is going in a wrong path

Posted by Nayil on Jul-10-2007 19:54:

quote:
Originally posted by RebeL9
ok smart head. first of all it's not an album. it's a mix CD and it was released a few months ago, not the other week or so. besides this isn't his first compilation so it's not like a big sensation or something. besides those who have read his photo diary on his website aren't new to these kind of comments. J00F have several times in the past years said that trance is going in a wrong path

Judging by the interview, it seemed like the CD got launched a few days ago.

Mix CD! right.

Other than that, kinda clears everything up.

Thanks for ur time mr walking talking trance dictionary.

Posted by RebeL9 on Jul-10-2007 20:02:

quote:
Originally posted by Nayil
Judging by the interview, it seemed like the CD got launched a few days ago.

Mix CD! right.

Other than that, kinda clears everything up.

Thanks for ur time mr walking talking trance dictionary.

I'm not a dictionary but right should be right

Posted by MrJiveBoJingles on Jul-10-2007 23:12:

quote:
Originally posted by Watts
I'm surprised no one has commented on Freak's post since it's the only one that explains the current state of anything.

That was a good post, now that you mentioned it. I hadn't noticed it before you brought it up.

I think that the digital revolution has played a big part in unleashing loads of derivative crap on the scene. It's really simple:

(1) Cost of entry for production is far, far lower than it used to be. Anybody with a computer and an Internet connection can download a cracked copy of Cubase / Ableton / Reason and any number of soft-synths for free. Newer programs are easier to use, newer computers are faster, and tutorials and forums about production are widely available and easily accessed.

(2) New music is easier than ever to learn about (due to big radio shows, huge EDM events, etc.), find (through the Internet), and purchase (or download for free), which also means that fame spreads more quickly and more widely than before, leading many fans to hanker after their moment in the sun.

Dangle a low cost of production and a quick route to fame and fortune in front of people's eyes, and what do you get? A bunch of untalented people with little motivation to try anything new. If you really enjoyed last month's hit, and making a track just like it will get you the fame you want, why try to do anything different? You'll enjoy making something that sounds like the stuff your idols make and enjoy the fame that comes with it, too.

If cost of entry is higher and fame is non-existent, what do you get? Only people driven by something other than money and dreams of being a superstar will make music.

Posted by Aaron C. on Jul-11-2007 02:39:

quote:
Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
That was a good post, now that you mentioned it. I hadn't noticed it before you brought it up.

I think that the digital revolution has played a big part in unleashing loads of derivative crap on the scene. It's really simple:

(1) Cost of entry for production is far, far lower than it used to be. Anybody with a computer and an Internet connection can download a cracked copy of Cubase / Ableton / Reason and any number of soft-synths for free. Newer programs are easier to use, newer computers are faster, and tutorials and forums about production are widely available and easily accessed.

(2) New music is easier than ever to learn about (due to big radio shows, huge EDM events, etc.), find (through the Internet), and purchase (or download for free), which also means that fame spreads more quickly and more widely than before, leading many fans to hanker after their moment in the sun.

Dangle a low cost of production and a quick route to fame and fortune in front of people's eyes, and what do you get? A bunch of untalented people with little motivation to try anything new. If you really enjoyed last month's hit, and making a track just like it will get you the fame you want, why try to do anything different? You'll enjoy making something that sounds like the stuff your idols make and enjoy the fame that comes with it, too.

If cost of entry is higher and fame is non-existent, what do you get? Only people driven by something other than money and dreams of being a superstar will make music.

Interesting points.

Posted by Freak on Jul-11-2007 17:37:

quote:
Originally posted by Watts
I'm surprised no one has commented on Freak's post since it's the only one that explains the current state of anything.

People are too busy arguing and fighting over exactly what what genres and sub genres to pigeonhole tracks and people into.

Posted by all-nite-freak on Jul-11-2007 17:42:

quote:
Originally posted by Freak
People are too busy arguing and fighting over exactly what what genres and sub genres to pigeonhole tracks and people into.

yes but you aren't an all-nite one

Posted by AndreaCKY772 on Jul-11-2007 19:04:

�That�s what trance used to mean, but now it means a cheesy vocal, an obvious breakdown and a rubbish video.�

Posted by Ste on Jul-11-2007 20:10:

"relative unknowns" and "wizzy noise" dont really go in the same sentence IMO

They are fucking good though

Posted by sljiva on Jul-11-2007 20:53:

Well they go for someone who's not into psy...
And they are good (haven't heard their JOOF release, but Stereo Electric is wonderful album)

Posted by wotyzoid on Jul-11-2007 21:23:

Posted by SYSTEM-J on Jul-11-2007 23:59:

Posted by thoughtlessjex on Jul-12-2007 01:30:

quote:
Originally posted by RebeL9
ok smart head. first of all it's not an album. it's a mix CD and it was released a few months ago, not the other week or so. besides this isn't his first compilation so it's not like a big sensation or something. besides those who have read his photo diary on his website aren't new to these kind of comments. J00F have several times in the past years said that trance is going in a wrong path

I also can't help but get the sense that beatport (who is no doubt going to be selling the comp) wanted to make a sensation more than JOOF did. It's a whole lot easier to lambaste a genre when asked to do so. Furthermore, this isn't what I'd call an interview, but rather a few selected quotes that don't include any dimplomacy whatsoever.

Posted by noikeee on Jul-12-2007 01:52:

quote:
Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike
I remember J00F playing Carte Blanche at GKGG quite some time ago. A very intelligent and non-commercial piece of music that is.

I swiftly made an exit to the techno tent.

Come on Mike, you have a point in general, but nitpicking on one single track played at a certain occasion some couple years ago is completely silly.

Posted by genscape on Jul-12-2007 05:03:

quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
To be honest, all of this has been talked about many times before, just like J00F's points. I'm amazed people are still treating this as though it's a recent observation.

Posted by isoterra on Jul-12-2007 07:15:

quote:
Originally posted by Col
Point.

And ironically, this isn't the most intelligent of interviews.

Fair enough, what he's saying is true; trance is over-commercialised and it's become more and more formulaic over the last 7 or 8 years. But I thought his rambling about the top 40 was a bit childish, like an indie kid who abandons his favourite band as soon as they become popular and get some fans.

Also, I'm pretty sure j00f has gone through periods of playing sets weighted with riff-based melodic trance...certainly around the turn of the millennium. And he has released mix albums containing tracks like 'PPK - Resurection', so this all smacks of hypocrisy just a bit.

This interview is perhaps not quite as embarrassing as when Gareth Emery pulled the same stunt, but it's certainly up there. Respected DJs like this should let the music do the talking, instead of taking a moral highground, attacking a popular type of EDM in an attempt to make themselves look more intelligent than other DJs.

Everything he has said here has been said before anyway.
Come on John, it's 2007 now.

i'm assuming you didn't read his response in here. having read it before ^that post it makes the above look rather silly

Posted by Purple on Jul-12-2007 17:23:

quote:
Originally posted by Omega_M
how many of you guys have the courage to go up to J00F and speak out your minds ?
I bet when you actually meet him, u'll ask for his autograph and take pics with him to post on myspace.

quote:
Originally posted by Igaryok
I like j00f, but he needs to shut the hell up. Seems like a publicity stunt more than anything else.

I agree with everything what j00f said and I also agree 100% with you.

Posted by Cipha Sounds on Jul-12-2007 17:47:

Posted by blacknoizybox on Jul-13-2007 11:39:

now a haven't read much of this thread due to its size BUT please read this carefully so I can avoid being accused:

"The first rule of Fight Club is - you do not talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club is - you DO NOT talk about Fight Club" - (c) Fight Club

everything in our life is based on stereotypes - culture is a system of stereotypes besides just the music, the so-called "art" etc.

haven't you ever noticed? - every goddamn DJ on the planet swears to god he IS the representation of the underground sound and accuses the other DJs of being cheesy, pop-sounding and working for the masses.

but what is underground??? what the fuck is it??? if you heard underground then its probably not underground because you heard it coming out of someone's basement. it's not supposed to come out of the someone's basement full of close friends on LSD (joke!). and even if it comes out and brings them money and fame they should treat it like "oh well...nice"

underground this underground that, cheesy this cheesy that - WHO THE FKUC is John 00 Fleming (and PvD, and that other guy PvD quotes..) to judge what is right and what is wrong, and how thing should be?? if he lays down that formulaic-trance-accusation then why does alot of his own production have an apparent formula behind it? ok, its not the usual buildup-uplift-breakdown-buildup-and-outtro sound but it still is all the same in many fucking ways like the bassline, the squiggly synth pads and pumping drums.. i could then bring the press-reporters to my house and declare the Mr.John 00 Fleming produced cheesy psytrance and anyways 99,999999% of all EDM is cheesy crap and what do I get out of it?? i'll tell you - FAME!!!! FAME = PR (adv.)

now returning to the stereotypes - underground IS a stereotype imposed on you and me to somehow separate this big fucking tangled bunch of music, and to earn extra benefit out of it, because by separating two apples on the store stand you can claim one is better then the other and have it sold for twice the price. underground is a new, highly efficient, futuristic-looking weapon to combat the unability to get the audience's trust anymore. that's why alot of DJs talk about it but you never really feel the difference neither hear it. it's just the same as yelling throught a loudspeaker "this planet is full of scum!! this planet, I say, is full of scum!!". award yourself a medal and seduce yourself afterwards.

"Listen up, maggots. You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else." - (c) Fight Club

and another thing i've noticed - underground as a PR-tool is not alone and is closely related to another raging steretype applied to 99% of the advertisement material (at least here in Ukraine) - it has many names - "being free", "freedom of choice", "live free", "a bright personality", "be different", "be not like everyone else", "you're special/unique/freak".

you see, the basic principles of freedom, just as the principles of pure underground, is that it is an idealistic concept which you cannot touch, cannot taste, cannot feel...because you are bound by so much things. now this may not seem much relevant to the topic, but today a lot of people are concerned whether they really fit into this new suit of a "free personality".. everyone's trying to act different just for the sake of acting different which is quite contradicting to the very essence of "freedom" because similarity whips your heels as you run from it - that is why most people are victims to their own stereotypes, which are, generaly, imposed on them by the media, and, what is the most important - for a very different purpose then most generally imagine.

even I, in some way, prove my own words by writing the whole damn thing..

peace

Posted by Whirloop on Jul-13-2007 14:43:

quote:
Originally posted by blacknoizybox
now a haven't read much of this thread...

I think you should.

Posted by blacknoizybox on Jul-13-2007 14:55:

quote:
Originally posted by Whirloop
I think you should.

immaterial > will not affect content of my post >
hence > i shouldn't have > you failed to start a fight

Posted by Whirloop on Jul-13-2007 15:08:

quote:
Originally posted by blacknoizybox
immaterial > will not affect content of my post >
hence > i shouldn't have > you failed to start a fight

Yeah you got me.
Shame on me for you not to read and understand the whole thread.

Posted by lindt on Jul-13-2007 15:48:

quote:
Originally posted by blacknoizybox
now a haven't read much of this thread due to its size

Did you really just quote Fight Club to support and frame your points?

Posted by basilisk on Jul-13-2007 16:40:

Very intelligent thread

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