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Originally posted by Magnetonium anti-gravity (magnetic) forces...

dude, please stop speculating on the future propulsion technology. Words like these don't even make any sense. You are mixing a lot of concepts here. You will need something to create anti gravity force or whatever it takes to fly the aircraft. You will always need a mechanism for propulsion, which requires fuel that will be used to expend energy to overcome resistive forces (in this case, gravity)

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Originally posted by ams.rld Dude, the US government already has that. They are just keeping it classified.

Care to get into detail? I am not talking about hovercraft here, btw.

OK, I admit I confused magnetism and gravity. I shall get more technical then.

I am talking about Nikola Tesla's designs many years ago of an Anti-Gravity Machine.


Heck, 100 years Tesla even proposed use of technology that was not dependent on electricity ... if you read his works and designs, he was the greatest genius who had ever lived! And its not only my opinion ...

Summation of Tesla's Dynamic Theory of Gravity

http://www.netowne.com/technology/important/

I don't know much about Tesla's anti gravity machine, so I won't comment on that. But here's something from Wiki to think about.

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Anti-gravity is the idea of creating a place or object that is free from the force of gravity. It does not refer to countering the gravitational force by an opposing force of a different nature, as a helium balloon does; instead, anti-gravity requires that the fundamental causes of the force of gravity be made either not present or not applicable to the place or object through some kind of technological intervention. Anti-gravity is a recurring theme in science fiction, particularly in the context of spacecraft propulsion. The concept was first introduced formally as "Cavorite" in H. G. Wells' The First Men in the Moon, and has been a favorite deus ex machina since that day. In the first mathematically accurate description of gravity, Newton's law of universal gravitation, gravity was an external force transmitted by unknown means. However in the early part of the 20th century Newton's model was replaced by the more general and complete description encoded in general relativity (GR). In general relativity, gravity is not a force in the traditional sense of the word, but the result of the geometry of space itself. These geometrical solutions always cause attractive "forces". Under GR, anti-gravity is highly unlikely, except under contrived circumstances that are regarded as unlikely or impossible. The term "anti-gravity" is also sometimes used to refer to hypothetical reactionless propulsion drives based on certain solutions to GR, although these do not oppose gravity as such. There are numerous newer theories that add onto GR or replace it outright, and some of these appear to allow anti-gravity-like solutions. However, according to the current widely accepted physical theories, verified in experiments, and according to the major directions of physical research, it is considered highly unlikely that anti-gravity is possible.[1][2][3]

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Originally posted by Magnetonium ...but would you rather use the bicycle to travel to Africa or a jetliner? Same for traversing great distances ... you'd need one hell of line of resupply stations to travel great distances using non-renewable fuel and energy sources.

yeah but if you think about it, ground, air and water-based vehicles all use liquid fuel for propulsion.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Sorry, didnt mean to do a direct stab at you, I was merely saying that any fuel-based aircraft technology is not alien in nature ... which is your point, I guess.

oh thats cool i agree completely.

you'd also think that as much alien space craft that has visited Russia they would have their own "Area 51" replete with extra-terrestrial technology.

why is it that we Americans are always burdened with alien technology?

http://www.gravitycontrol.org/gravitycontrol.html

Gravity Control and Antigravity

Contents:

Introduction
Antigravity
Gravity Control
John Ernst Worrell Keely
Nikola Tesla
N A Kozyrev
Albert Einstein
Viktor Schauberger
Thomas Townsend Brown
Alexander V. Frolov
Resources

Interesting parts:

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The oldest known earthly and heavenly flying machines were called Vimanas. From Sanskrit texts thousands of years old comes this translation: In the Sanskrit Samaraanganasutraadhaara it is written: Strong and durable must the body of the Vimana be made, like a great flying bird of light material. Inside one must put the mercury engine with its iron heating apparatus underneath. By means of the power latent in the mercury which sets the driving whirlwind in motion, a man sitting inside may travel a great distance in the sky. The movements of the Vimana are such that it can vertically ascend, vertically descend, move slanting forwards and backwards. With the help of the machines human beings can fly in the air and heavenly beings can come down to earth. The vimana texts are estimated to be from fifteen thousand years ago.

I love the ice-cream-in-the-cup part



WHOA.

Hahahah, I am mutilating my own thread

OK, back to being serious. More on Hutchison.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium OK, back to being serious. More on Hutchison.

Dude, Hutchison is a joke. You only have to read his page on wiki to realize that he's just another fake muddled wanabe physicist and also a conspiracy theorist. Whom would you believe ? A self taught experimenter who's discoveries never stood up to a closer scientific scrutiny or the director of a NASA space propulsion program who has a PhD in his field ?

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In a posting to the sci.physics.research newsgroup, Marc Millis, who ran the now-defunct Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Program for NASA, wrote: This "Hutchison Effect" has been claimed for years, without any independent verification � ever. In fact, its originator can't even replicate it on demand. This has been investigated more than once, been part of documentaries on The Discovery Channel, but still never seems to pass critical muster. This is in the category of folklore. In general, the "American Antigravity" web site caters to such folklore and its enthusiasts.

quote:

Originally posted by Omega_M Dude, Hutchison is a joke. You only have to read his page on wiki to realize that he's just another fake muddled wanabe physicist and also a conspiracy theorist. Whom would you believe ? A self taught experimenter who's discoveries never stood up to a closer scientific scrutiny or the director of a NASA space propulsion program who has a PhD in his field ?

Are you kidding? Everyone with a degree in anything are in cahoots in order to deceive the world. Everything from UFOs to buildings collapsing.

Here is one of the ex U.S millitary sgt describing his experiences.

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Originally posted by eROs.au Are you kidding? Everyone with a degree in anything are in cahoots in order to deceive the world. Everything from UFOs to buildings collapsing.

But of course, everyone knows venues for higher education have been infiltrated by psy-ops and bones and skulls for years! Universities are a beacon of disinformation.

quote:

Originally posted by Omega_M dude, please stop speculating on the future propulsion technology. Words like these don't even make any sense. You are mixing a lot of concepts here. You will need something to create anti gravity force or whatever it takes to fly the aircraft. You will always need a mechanism for propulsion, which requires fuel that will be used to expend energy to overcome resistive forces (in this case, gravity)

You don't need fuel. We already have a unlimited supply, and it fills every inch of space.

It's called zero point energy. We know it exists, but we don't have the technology to harness it yet...

See halfway down the page here:

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/r...ssible.html#vac

I've got your zero point energy right here *rude gesture*

Seriously though, how much money has been spent exploring the nothingness that is outer space? Have we found jeebus yet? No?

We should have been exploring the oceans. Maybe we would have a better understanding of how the planet works and why it's trying to kill us off instead of picking up moon rocks. I can find those up my nose, thanks.

I saw something on CNN where these two dudes were saying that the government would make a huge revelation in the coming weeks regarding UFO's.

Watch me hold my breath.

And yeah, if they parade some little green men around I'll eat my words Sarcasm tastes like chicken!!

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt You don't need fuel. We already have a unlimited supply, and it fills every inch of space. It's called zero point energy. We know it exists, but we don't have the technology to harness it yet... See halfway down the page here: http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/r...ssible.html#vac

Well yeah, there is a huge difference between theoretical possibilities and practical applications.

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Can we tap into this energy? It is doubtful that this can be tapped, and if it could be tapped, it is unknown what the secondary consequences would be. Remember that this is our lowest energy point. To get energy out, you presumably need to be at a lower energy state. Theoretical methods have been suggested to take advantage of the Casimir effect to extract energy (let the plates collapse and do work in the process) since the region inside the Casimir cavity can be interpreted as being at a lower energy state. Such concepts are only at the point of theoretical exercises at this point. With such large amount of energy, why is it so hard to notice? Imagine, for example, if you lived on a large plateau, so large that you didn't know you were 1000 ft up. From your point of view, your ground is at zero height. As long as you're not near the edge of your 1000 ft plateau, you won't fall off, and you will never know that your zero is really 1000. It's kind of the same way with this vacuum energy. It is essentially our zero reference point. What about propulsion implications? The vacuum fluctuations have also been theorized by Haisch, Rueda, and Puthoff to cause gravity and inertia. Those particular gravity theories are still up for debate. Even if the theories are correct, in their present form they do not provide a means to use electromagnetic means to induce propulsive forces. It has also been suggested by Millis that any asymmetric interactions with the vacuum energy might provide a propulsion effect.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Care to get into detail? I am not talking about hovercraft here, btw. OK, I admit I confused magnetism and gravity. I shall get more technical then. I am talking about Nikola Tesla's designs many years ago of an Anti-Gravity Machine. Heck, 100 years Tesla even proposed use of technology that was not dependent on electricity ... if you read his works and designs, he was the greatest genius who had ever lived! And its not only my opinion ... Summation of Tesla's Dynamic Theory of Gravity http://www.netowne.com/technology/important/

No, I can't get into detail here. Just trust me when I say DARPA has already been there done that.

OMG, a poster on TA has insider information about a top secret anti gravity project executed by DARPA. Holy crap !!!

Are we being misled by the director of the Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Program at NASA ?

quote:

...in general, the "American Antigravity" web site caters to such folklore and its enthusiasts.

Or does the NASA not know about these things ?

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Edit : In case you missed my point, this is what it implies :

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Originally posted by pmoisse I've got your zero point energy right here *rude gesture* Seriously though, how much money has been spent exploring the nothingness that is outer space? Have we found jeebus yet? No? We should have been exploring the oceans. Maybe we would have a better understanding of how the planet works and why it's trying to kill us off instead of picking up moon rocks. I can find those up my nose, thanks. I saw something on CNN where these two dudes were saying that the government would make a huge revelation in the coming weeks regarding UFO's. Watch me hold my breath. And yeah, if they parade some little green men around I'll eat my words Sarcasm tastes like chicken!!

It's not like these projects are all or nothing. There's plenty of research being done on oceans as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Omega_M Dude, Hutchison is a joke. You only have to read his page on wiki to realize that he's just another fake muddled wanabe physicist and also a conspiracy theorist. Whom would you believe ? A self taught experimenter who's discoveries never stood up to a closer scientific scrutiny or the director of a NASA space propulsion program who has a PhD in his field ?

You are probably right. Hutchison is actually a mile away from the main point of this thread anyway, I veered away - my fault - I wasnt in the right mind when I posted that. Hutchison, from my own research is pretty sketchy character and questionable, I admit. Though he does bring to light Tesla's concepts that will likely be a hot topic in the years to come, and a very understandable direction where our propulsion might be heading in the future. I believe that it is possible to navigate craft in the air using gravity repelling forces. It makes so much sense, and not much of a science fiction with new technology and understanding of gravity and magnetism.

quote:

Originally posted by Purple You become an alien after you die, not ghost.

And I thought your posts in MD were stupid...

Has anyone ever looked at the Drake equation? It predicts the number of intelligent civilizations that might exist out there in the universe.

The Drake equation states that:


where:

N is the number of civilizations in our galaxy with which we might hope to be able to communicate;

and

R∗ is the average rate of star formation in our galaxy
fp is the fraction of those stars that have planets
ne is the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets
fℓ is the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop life at some point
fi is the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop intelligent life
fc is the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space
L is the length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into space.

Considerable disagreement on the values of most of these parameters exists, but the values used by Drake and his colleagues in 1961 were:

* R* = 10/year (10 stars formed per year, on the average over the life of the galaxy)
* fp = 0.5 (half of all stars formed will have planets)
* ne = 2 (2 planets per star will be able to develop life)
* fl = 1 (100% of the planets will develop life)
* fi = 0.01 (1% of which will be intelligent life)
* fc = 0.01 (1% of which will be able to communicate)
* L = 10,000 years (which will last 10,000 years)

Drake's values give N = 10 � 0.5 � 2 � 1 � 0.01 � 0.01 � 10,000 = 10.

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I believe there are just too many stars and too much matter in the universe for us to be the only life. According to Drake, there should be 10 civilizations in the Milky Way. That's pretty far out.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Has anyone ever looked at the Drake equation? According to Drake, there should be 10 civilizations in the Milky Way. That's pretty far out.

I've been meaning to post this and my thoughts on it for awhile. Every time this thread shoots back up to the top of the page I remember to post it and then get too lazy.

Anyway, I agree - the chances of intelligent life coexisting simultaneously in the universe are pretty slim at best. Not to mention that the variables imply a few other logistical difficulties. Ten is the number arrived at by Drake, but other scientists have used estimates that put that number at closer to one or two. The number itself doesn't imply that the civilizations arise simultaneously either - simply that over the course of the life of the Milky Way, approximately two civilizations capable of intelligent thought will exist. Whether or not the overlap is a separate issue not resolved by the equation. And even if they do exist concurrently, that doesn't resolve the issue of communication. At the rate of speed radio waves travel the galaxy, by the time waves sent by humanity at the advent of radio (Carl Sagan used the Berlin Olympics as the point of origination in 'Contact'), the human race will have died out long before the waves can reach halfway across the galaxy, be received, and be sent back. There's just too much empty space. So in all reality, if there is intelligent life, even in our own galaxy, they would never know that we are here until after we are gone. The likelihood that they already know we are here and have visited us is so incredibly remote as to be laughable.

Perhaps alien spacecraft have the ability to bend space-time and travel much much faster? Think about it. If an object travels normally through space, its travelling basically on a flat plane. But if the object can bend spacetime, it can speed itself up just like a ball accelerating down a hill.

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