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-- What does PROGRESSIVE mean in music
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Originally posted by thoughtlessjex Why in the world wouldn't they be? Do tell.

Why would they be? They're not heavy or metal.

Hard rock would be much more accurate. I know they called KISS and Bon Jovi (!) heavy metal in the eighties but that's just wrong.

Haha, Kiss as heavy metal. Just because you dress retardedly and sing giant stage anthems doesn't mean you're metal. Dimmu Borgir or Children of Bodom would eat their faces off, and I hate metal for the most part.

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Originally posted by Abhay Are they both ADjectives? I'm so confused. I think both describe music. But an adjective qualifies a noun. Progressive in the innovative sense i think is an adverb, as it is qualifying a verb. DOING. PROGRESSING the genre/sound.

It isn't an adverb, because it doesn't qualify any verb. In the form "progressive" it can't be an adverb: it would need an "-ly" suffix. They're both adjectives in the way they're used.

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Originally posted by Spirit5 It means both things from my point of view. There's music that does use "progressive structure"...where the song progresses over a long period of time, as a lot of trance does. Then there's "progressive" as far as things going forward...being more "progressive thinking" and added new elements like new sounds. I think if some people on here would just come to a consensus like that, seek the middle ground...there wouldn't be silly arguments like this. It's the same thing with politics...polarization...people being so one sided with their views.

But the structure is not what the term means. It's just one of the predominant features in a lot (definitely not all) progressive house/trance/whatever from recent years. That's taking a feature and attributing the label to it. It ignores the history of the music and it ignores the source of the term.

There is no right or wrong here.

Some of us including myself use the word progressive to describe the structure.

Others use it to say the music is forward thinking, radical or whatever.

And others still, will use it for both.

We can sit on here and argue till we are blue in the face how "my definition is correct, yours is wrong" and cite endless quotes from god knows where with references to whatever genre from whatever year.

It won't change what our own defintions are so why bother?

oh...and one more thing

what does the term neo mean? (as in neo-trance)

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Originally posted by G-Con what does the term neo mean? (as in neo-trance)

"New". Like Neo-Nazis. They were still Nazis, but they were a new movement of Nazis.

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Originally posted by G-Con what does the term neo mean? (as in neo-trance)

It means "I want to be cooler than everyone else so I'm making up a nonsensical pseudo-subgenre".

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Why would they be? They're not heavy or metal. Hard rock would be much more accurate. I know they called KISS and Bon Jovi (!) heavy metal in the eighties but that's just wrong.

I thought I just finished talking about how it's a good idea not to neglect the original meaning of a genre. I really don't know what else to say. I think you're just talking out of your ass.

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Haha, Kiss as heavy metal. Just because you dress retardedly and sing giant stage anthems doesn't mean you're metal. Dimmu Borgir or Children of Bodom would eat their faces off, and I hate metal for the most part.

Thank God they're black and death metal, respectively, because otherwise Kiss really would be in trouble. I think if you don't even like metal, you shouldn't make shit up about it.

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Originally posted by thoughtlessjex I thought I just finished talking about how it's a good idea not to neglect the original meaning of a genre. I really don't know what else to say. I think you're just talking out of your ass.

Edit:
See, the original meaning of "heavy metal" came with Black Sabbath, which outdates KISS by several years. And can you honestly say those two bands sound alike?

WHAT? No one pointed out this before me?! You missed the "V" numbnuts.

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery It means "I want to be cooler than everyone else so I'm making up a nonsensical pseudo-subgenre".

And what was progressive house than made up nonsensical pseudo-subgenre at the beginning of the 90s

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Edit: See, the original meaning of "heavy metal" came with Black Sabbath, which outdates KISS by several years. And can you honestly say those two bands sound alike?

Why do people always use the Black Sabbath argument? Were they honestly the only metal band in the late sixties? What about Led Zeppelin? Black Sabbath was one extreme on the metal spectrum, why should they be the basis to exclude the other extreme?

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Originally posted by thoughtlessjex Why do people always use the Black Sabbath argument? Were they honestly the only metal band in the late sixties? What about Led Zeppelin? Black Sabbath was one extreme on the metal spectrum, why should they be the basis to exclude the other extreme?

Led Zeppelin?

Heavy Metal?



Hard rock, at most, more likely just plain "rock".

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Originally posted by all-nite-freak it means you need a dictionary

LOL! classic, spot on!

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Originally posted by Beat Blog Led Zeppelin? Heavy Metal? Hard rock, at most, more likely just plain "rock".

Uh well if you read stuff on "Heavy Metal" you will read that Led Zeppelin and other "hard rock" bands like Black Sabbath, inspired heavy metal. Led Zeppelin began the screamy and harder sound...a little more theatrical, that inspired 80s and 90s heavy metal bands...and even the ones from today. Heavy Metal came out of "hard rock", and more or less Heavy Metal is a form of hard rock..it's rock music...just much harder or "heavier".

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Originally posted by Spirit5 Uh well if you read stuff on "Heavy Metal" you will read that Led Zeppelin and other "hard rock" bands like Black Sabbath, inspired heavy metal. Led Zeppelin began the screamy and harder sound...a little more theatrical, that inspired 80s and 90s heavy metal bands...and even the ones from today. Heavy Metal came out of "hard rock", and more or less Heavy Metal is a form of hard rock..it's rock music...just much harder or "heavier".

Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath were contemporaries, though. I think the main problem is tht people want to think that "heavy metal" means that the music was in some way "hard," when that's not the main point behind metal at all.

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Originally posted by thoughtlessjex Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath were contemporaries, though. I think the main problem is tht people want to think that "heavy metal" means that the music was in some way "hard," when that's not the main point behind metal at all.

Yeah but 9 times out of 10 heavy metal is "hard", it's theatrical..aggressive, emotional (whether angry, sad or really fake sounding which it often is IMO)...not much heavy metal i've heard (and I did go through a heavy metal phase around 11 and 12 years old) would be considered "light" or "calming" except maybe some 80s hair metal, or progressive metal that has breakdowns or more about concepts (like Dream Theater) than in your face aggression or just loud noises, screaming or really heavy guitar and percussion.

Hard Rock came out of (or in conjunction with) Psychadelic rock (like Jimi Hendrix), Heavy Metal came out Hard Rock, Industrial Metal/Rock came out of Heavy Metal (and electronic music). So essentially..they are all linked to one another by being "heavier" or "harder" styles of rock music. That's pretty much where they get their names from. I always considered heavy = hard, fast and loud.

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 Yeah but 9 times out of 10 heavy metal is "hard", it's theatrical..aggressive, emotional (whether angry, sad or really fake sounding which it often is IMO)...not much heavy metal i've heard (and I did go through a heavy metal phase around 11 and 12 years old) would be considered "light" or "calming" except maybe some 80s hair metal, or progressive metal that has breakdowns or more about concepts (like Dream Theater) than in your face aggression or just loud noises, screaming or really heavy guitar and percussion. Hard Rock came out of (or in conjunction with) Psychadelic rock (like Jimi Hendrix), Heavy Metal came out Hard Rock, Industrial Metal/Rock came out of Heavy Metal (and electronic music). So essentially..they are all linked to one another by being "heavier" or "harder" styles of rock music. That's pretty much where they get their names from. I always considered heavy = hard, fast and loud.

Oddly enough, I thought the heavy was supposed to mean slower, darker, thicker sounds, assisted greatly by overdriven electric guitars. Heavy is a different word from hard for a reason; it describes a different sound.

I dunno how a progressive dance music thread got turned into a "what defines something as heavy metal" - but I just wanted to add my take on it.

"Heavy Metal" to me has always meant the more thrasher, aggressive, sometimes darker and even satanic side of rock music. (ie. heavy metal is a divergence from rock 'n roll) - whereas alternative is a type of rock music (aka rock 'n roll) but Heavy Metal is more what I described above, with massive elements of electric guitars, theatrical musical assembly, and altogether a more dark or depressing image than hard rock, alternative, punk rock, or even grunge, which is not the same as heavy metal

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Originally posted by WardC I dunno how a progressive dance music thread got turned into a "what defines something as heavy metal" - but I just wanted to add my take on it. "Heavy Metal" to me has always meant the more thrasher, aggressive, sometimes darker and even satanic side of rock music.

Sometimes it is. Sometimes it's not. It was certainly a divergence, but like all splits, it didn't go in a wildly different direction immediately. Heavy metal as it was back then was much closer to rock music at the time.

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Originally posted by thoughtlessjex Why do people always use the Black Sabbath argument? Were they honestly the only metal band in the late sixties? What about Led Zeppelin? Black Sabbath was one extreme on the metal spectrum, why should they be the basis to exclude the other extreme?

Uhh... because Black Sabbath more or less started the whole movement? Weren't you talking about the original meaning of a genre and how one shouldn't dismiss it?

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Uhh... because Black Sabbath more or less started the whole movement? Weren't you talking about the original meaning of a genre and how one shouldn't dismiss it?

Try Deep Purple next time. Black Sabbath was certainly up there with them, but if you want the real pioneers of the sound, then Deep Purple's where you look.

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Originally posted by thoughtlessjex Try Deep Purple next time. Black Sabbath was certainly up there with them, but if you want the real pioneers of the sound, then Deep Purple's where you look.

You keep mixing hard rock into this.

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery You keep mixing hard rock into this.

You keep saying metal bands are hard rock.

All right, that's enough of going around in circles for me.

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery All right, that's enough of going around in circles for me.

+1.

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