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- Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont.
-- Ontario Election 2007: (Vote October 10th)
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quote:

Originally posted by djbruuen i'm for the mmp because of the federal election if anyone remembers: Green Party: 665,940 votes - 0 seats Block Quebecois: 1,553,201 - 51 seats how does this represent canada's best interest?

better than party hacks being MPs only to serve party's interests

quote:

Q: What is MMP? A: MMP or mixed-member proportional representation is a political system used in places like New Zealand and Germany, where voters cast a two-part ballot, selecting both a preferred local candidate and a political party. In Ontario's version, voters would choose "local" MPPs in the traditional way in 90 newly created, larger ridings instead of the existing 107 constituencies. With their vote for the party of their choice on the second part of the ballot, they would also select an additional 39 MPPs from lists of candidates compiled by the parties. These "list" MPPs would be elected based on their parties' popular vote, to top up a party's tally of "local" MPPs and more accurately reflect results across the province. The Legislature would be expanded to 129 MPPs to accommodate the changes. Q: What are the advantages of MMP? A: Smaller parties like the Greens, the Family Coalition and the Freedom Party would have a chance at winning seats in the Legislature even if they cannot win a riding outright. Any party that wins at least 3 per cent of the popular vote would be awarded four "list" seats. It would mean the end of majority governments when a party has won less than half the vote and prevent scenarios like former NDP premier Bob Rae's landslide victory in 1990 with 37.6 per cent of the vote. Q: What are the disadvantages of MMP? A: Critics charge the 39 "list" MPPs would not be directly elected and the parties could use the lists as a sort of Senate to reward party apparatchiks, financial donors or others. As well, it would likely spell the end of decisive, majority governments since no party has won 50 per cent or more of the popular vote since 1937. Q: What is "first past the post"? A: "First-past-the-post," or FPTP, is the current method of electing MPPs and is how Canadians have traditionally chosen federal and provincial representatives. It is a winner-take-all system, where the candidate with the most votes wins a riding. The political party that wins the most electoral districts forms the government. Q: What are the advantages of FPTP? A: Simplicity and familiarity. The system is in use in countries around the world, including Britain and the United States, and has served Ontario and Canada for generations. Q: What are the disadvantages of FPTP? A: The winner-take-all nature of it means that the majority's voting intent may not be honoured. In recent history, most Ontario voters did not want Dalton McGuinty, Mike Harris or Bob Rae as premier, yet all three were elected with majority governments. It also means the ballots of dissenting voters in ridings won by the Liberals, Tories or New Democrats are meaningless province-wide. In theory, a party could win all 107 seats by winning every riding with a little over one-third of the vote.

http://www.thestar.com/OntarioElection/article/252176



btw. i actually live in a 'swing' riding .. so my riding's votes could have a direct impact on the outcome of the election if it's close.. should be interesting..

http://www.thestar.com/ontarioelect...gprofile/251454

http://www.thestar.com/ontarioelection/article/262898

WOOT WOOT!


IT's ELECTION DAY!


Don't forget to vote!

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree better than party hacks being MPs only to serve party's interests

yes and no.

without being able to pull an accurate number out of my head, i could assume that the majority of canadians vote for the party itself, rather than specifically regarding what the local MP is offering.

I'm ready to pick my candidate/party.

However...

I'm still on the fence regarding the referendum. Does anyone really know the strengths an benefits and possible future implications of this referendum. I have read the explanations in the ads in the daily papers, but I can't find any discussions on it.

Does anyone even know what I'm talking about?

quote:

Originally posted by Abercrombie I'm ready to pick my candidate/party. However... I'm still on the fence regarding the referendum. Does anyone really know the strengths an benefits and possible future implications of this referendum. I have read the explanations in the ads in the daily papers, but I can't find any discussions on it. Does anyone even know what I'm talking about?

On the radio they were talking about how the whole referendum was an idea to possibly increase voter turn out.

The primary advantage is that it can give smaller parties somewhat of a say.

Right now there are apparently 103 ridings (maybe 105, can't remember) but the new system would reduce the ridings to 90.

There would then be another 39 seats which would be divided up based on the popular vote.

Therefore, if a party gets roughly 2.5% of the popular vote, they will be giving one of the 39 seats.

This could help out the Green Party or some other party as they would have atleast one representative.


This is what I've learned about it. If i'm wrong or a little off, can someone clarify thing for me?

quote:

Originally posted by exstasie Therefore, if a party gets roughly 2.5% of the popular vote, they will be giving one of the 39 seats.

I'm sure you made it a lot easier for us, thanks.

Can anyone give an opinion on any worst case scenarios? or best case scenarios?

I listen to CFRB and other talk radio on the way to and from work recently and don't hear much about it (side note...I was on the radio with Jim Richards last night on another topic: Men who go to clubs just to dance).

quote:

Originally posted by Abercrombie (side note...I was on the radio with Jim Richards last night on another topic: Men who go to clubs just to dance).

love it. Totally reminds me of the dane cook "screw guys, screw guys, i just want to dance" haha

LEADERSHIP MATTERS!

quote:

Originally posted by Abercrombie I'm sure you made it a lot easier for us, thanks. Can anyone give an opinion on any worst case scenarios? or best case scenarios? I listen to CFRB and other talk radio on the way to and from work recently and don't hear much about it (side note...I was on the radio with Jim Richards last night on another topic: Men who go to clubs just to dance).

Con
MMP systems tend to result in more minority governments as more parties become represented in the legislature with smaller numbers of seats.
The seats apportioned as a function of the popular vote are filled with persons listed on priority list prior to the election. The lists are prepared by the party leaders. These seats traditionally become ways of rewarding the party faithful for their loyalty.
Additonally, with more seats given to smaller parties the potential for corruption increases, thus, states with proportional representation tend to have very large and strong lobby groups.
Finally, MPPs filling the popular vote seats will not be assigned to any one riding; therefore, they are not accountable to any constituency. Compounding this, the number of ridings are reduced to 90 from 103 (i think), which means larger ridings, which translates into less access to your MPP.

Pro
Will serve to equalize the disconnect between popular vote and the number of seats held by each party.
Allows parties that receive greater then 2.5% of the popular vote to have representation in the Legislature despite failing to have sufficient votes to win any given riding.
Promotes grass roots movements by giving them a stronger voice by way of representation.
Acts as a disinsentive to stategic voting (that could be a con too depending on how you view strategic voting).

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker LEADERSHIP MATTERS!

No campagning on election day!

i voted today...very convenient..right inside my appartment building, but i noticed on their list of names only a few ppl voted so far and i live in a huge building..that's too bad

Just did my civic duty of the year and voted

On my way back home I thought, there are people around the world who died just to have a chance to vote.

The things we take for granted... and other still fight to get.

quote:

Originally posted by Abercrombie I listen to CFRB and...I was on the radio with Jim Richards last night on another topic: Men who go to clubs just to dance).

Good ol' Jimberly!!

You voted PC eh? Good for you


I jsut have to wait for someone to come home so I can go Vote.

Vote yay on Proposition 238!

quote:

Originally posted by afterhrsgurl i voted today...very convenient..right inside my appartment building, but i noticed on their list of names only a few ppl voted so far and i live in a huge building..that's too bad

quote:

Originally posted by exstasie You voted PC eh?

u'll never know what i voted

quote:

Originally posted by afterhrsgurl u'll never know what i voted

..it was the Family Coalition wasn't it!!


On that note, does anyone have the clip of Dave Chappelle on how White ppl don't like to tell who they are planning on voting for? haha

Too Funny

quote:

Originally posted by exstasie ..it was the Family Coalition wasn't it!!

no it was the canada communist party

So I'm curious to know... How many of you either received your voter card or showed up on the voters list, and you're not a Canadian Citizen? I hear this is an issue with non-citizens who lived here a long time ended up getting voter cards.

^^^ it happened to my dad, lol. pretty weak system, if you ask me.

He was born in Germany and came to Canada over 40 years ago...but never became a Canadian citizen. He's received a voter card at least once that I can remember.

I was mildly annoyed with how they decided where you would vote. I live in a large condo with two addresses. small little end building attached to a very large one. There is a polling station in the large one, yet I was directed on my card to walk a block and a half away. I went to the station in my building and they obliged, having me fill out a form.

I can only assume they allocate addresses by postal code (each building has a different one for some reason)...but I wonder how many people here walked in the rain to the other polling station

Going to vote soon on my way home from work...

surprisingly i find myslf on the fence re: both the referendum and how im voting... never thought id see the day (really, i didnt).

staying at work and reflecting on the matter a bit more while i work...

ugh.

The elections were a joke. I just came back from casting my ballot. I voted for Green Party and for restructuring the voting system.

The whole time I was at my polling station (30 minutes), only about 7-8 people came and voted (that includes two aged couples for four people). All, without exception were aged people, no young people whatsoever.

Plus I came in first to change my address, as I moved to a different one this summer, and the people there were clueless about how to get it done, almost like I was the first one the whole day to do that (polling station opened at 9AM and I voted at 6PM), the reason for my 30 minutes there. The poor old man in change of changing my paperwork, I had to help him with the change of address thing because he couldn't find my postal code on my driver's license for Christ's sakes, no offense, I felt bad for him. Jesus Christ. I didnt see a single observer from any parties other than a grand total of 10 pensioners on a total of five desks. Empty school hall, almost in the middle of a megacity. I think I could've actually cheated, because the lady almost forgot to check her initials on my ballots, at the last second before I deposited the ballots in the cardboard box.

Hey, who cares about the elections, right? Its just a burden, and its not important at all ... once every 4 years is too much time ... sad, very sad.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Hey, who cares about the elections, right? Its just a burden, and its not important at all ... once every 4 years is too much time ... sad, very sad.

Seriously, voting is too much of a hassle. I say we adopt a new system that doesn't require voting.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Hey, who cares about the elections, right? Its just a burden, and its not important at all ... once every 4 years is too much time ... sad, very sad.

one of those rare times I agree with you

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