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KHARTOUM, Sudan - A British teacher in Sudan was convicted Thursday of inciting religious hatred for letting her pupils name a teddy bear Muhammad, and she was sentenced to 15 days in prison and deportation from the country, one of her lawyers said.

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Gillian Gibbons was arrested Sunday after complaints to the Education Ministry that she had insulted Prophet Muhammad, the most revered figure in Islam, by applying his name to a toy animal.

The maximum penalty in the case, which has attracted worldwide attention, was 40 lashes and six months in prison.

"The judge found Gillian Gibbons guilty and sentenced her to 15 days jail and deportation," said Ali Mohammed Hajab, a member of her defense team.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN people will want their big screen tvs, pop music, reebok shoes, fast food outlets, freedom of vocation etc. and to get these things they will need a less restrictive society. self interest will supplant oppression at the end of the day.

You make it seem like materialism, greed, gluttony, and sexual exploitation (vis-a-vis music videos that go along with your suggestion of pop music) are part of your universal principles! The reason why that is accepted in western society is because the majority of people want that. There are severl families I know in this city that are not like that at all! The same way, the majority of the people in those countries where you think people are being oppressed, don't want that lifestyle. Anyway, I don't have any polls or anything to quote from (you asked me about my use of the term: majority in the PDD forum) but just using common sense.

When I was living in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia as a kid, I recall the adults expressing disgust with what they were seeing on satellite TV, and how happy they were that the moral fibre of the country was still intact (from a theological perspective). Of course, this is at the cost of the few people who violate the rules because they want out.

For some reason, I'm reminded of "arranged marriages" right now because that's another VERY well-intentioned and well-articulated custom in Muslim countries (not a law) however is completely misunderstood in the west. Reason I thought of it is because of how the lifestyle choices that people make in the east are being questioned here.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN once pandora's box is opened it can never be closed again. information and freedom to choose which elements of other cultures to enjoy will ultimately kill any dictatorial regime that has an advanced economy. and a lucrative, advanced economy is the goal of most societies.

ok, Morpheus!

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Originally posted by fayraree You make it seem like materialism, greed, gluttony, and sexual exploitation (vis-a-vis music videos that go along with your suggestion of pop music) are part of your universal principles! The reason why that is accepted in western society is because the majority of people want that. There are severl families I know in this city that are not like that at all! The same way, the majority of the people in those countries where you think people are being oppressed, don't want that lifestyle. Anyway, I don't have any polls or anything to quote from (you asked me about my use of the term: majority in the PDD forum) but just using common sense. When I was living in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia as a kid, I recall the adults expressing disgust with what they were seeing on satellite TV, and how happy they were that the moral fibre of the country was still intact (from a theological perspective). Of course, this is at the cost of the few people who violate the rules because they want out. For some reason, I'm reminded of "arranged marriages" right now because that's another VERY well-intentioned and well-articulated custom in Muslim countries (not a law) however is completely misunderstood in the west. Reason I thought of it is because of how the lifestyle choices that people make in the east are being questioned here.

so they don't want our advances in economic society, but they're more than happy to make use of our technologies to blow civilians apart. gotcha.

if people do not want those lifestyles, why are western goods, movies, television, internet, satellites, food chains etc popping up throughout the middle east? its economic DEMOCRACY at work. are you going to forbid those from choosing these things for themselves?

im sure that the women of saudi are much happier being lashed for being raped, rather than having access to rape crisis health centres.

look at iran; an older despotic fundamentalist regime terrorising a young generation that wants freedom of expression and the right to (shock horror!) interact with the opposite sex without the police monitoring their activities.

it WILL happen. it is already happening.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN im sure that the women of saudi are much happier being lashed for being raped

I want to engage in rational discourse with you, but why do you keep making ridiculous comments like that? NO POLITICAL SYSTEM ON THIS PLANET, I don't care if it's Al-Qaeda or WHO, would lash a woman for the reason alone that she was violated against her will. This is nonsense and I tried to refocus the discussion on the PDD several times when people were letting their attention slip.

Anyway, I'm tired of correcting this point, because it seems that such comments are fueled with vindiction and it also skews other people's perceptions and opinions of the issue, making all other aspects of the discussion irrelevant.

And just because you're too lazy to actually look it up (or you could never imagine a Muslim country having such facilities), here's a link to the Support Services offerred at the King Faisal Hospital in Riyadh. "Self-help and emotional support to patients and families" covers rape victims. Thanks for coming out.

http://bportal.kfshrc.edu.sa/wps/po.../Other+Services

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree I want to engage in rational discourse with you, but why do you keep making ridiculous comments like that? NO POLITICAL SYSTEM ON THIS PLANET, I don't care if it's Al-Qaeda or WHO, would lash a woman for the reason alone that she was violated against her will. This is nonsense and I tried to refocus the discussion on the PDD several times when people were letting their attention slip. Anyway, I'm tired of correcting this point, because it seems that such comments are fueled with vindiction and it also skews other people's perceptions and opinions of the issue, making all other aspects of the discussion irrelevant. And just because you're too lazy to actually look it up (or you could never imagine a Muslim country having such facilities), here's a link to the Support Services offerred at the King Faisal Hospital in Riyadh. "Self-help and emotional support to patients and families" covers rape victims. Thanks for coming out. http://bportal.kfshrc.edu.sa/wps/po.../Other+Services

yeah yeah, i know it wasn't punishment for being raped. but punishment for supposed adultery is almost as bad.

oh, she had access to the support services at the hospital from her jail cell?

The funny thing is that some people consider political and social freedoms more important than anything else, even more important than so-called "moral fiber." If you're in the U.S., you can dress like a slut and have sex with tons of people. Or you can wear very modest clothes and wait until marriage to have sex.

The point is that either option is available.

This contrasts with backward places like Saudi that favor the method of beating and kicking their citizens into "moral purity."

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles moral fibre

Corrected

Again, you understimate the will of the citizens to be pure on their own, which is why I pointed out that you can find conservative people in North America, too (not extremists, but what I was referring to above).

Just because the country has strict laws, doesn't mean God isn't going to judge each individual independently. That fear alone drives the lawfulness in these countries. (and of course, now I have left the scope of the argument for most of you on here )

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree Corrected Again, you understimate the will of the citizens to be pure on their own,

if citizens have a will to be pure on their own, why do they need laws to enforce morality?

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Originally posted by fayraree Again, you understimate the will of the citizens to be pure on their own, which is why I pointed out that you can find conservative people in North America, too (not extremists, but what I was referring to above).

If the motivation provided by Islam is so great, why does Saudi need all the oppressive laws and extreme punishments?



The truth is that most people want some debauchery now and then. When premarital sex and alcohol and all sorts of other things are available, people like indulging in them.

But the old men who rule these primitive backwaters will have none of it.

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree I declare a jihad on both of you and will rape your families and children.

Well, you shouldn't rape any of the men in their families because that would make you a homosexual and Pakistani civil law punishes those who have gay sex with two years to life in prison.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN if citizens have a will to be pure on their own, why do they need laws to enforce morality?

In my opinion (not sure what the intentions of the founders of the country were), establishing laws such as the shutting down of commerce for each prayer time was to make it easier for the citizens to follow their religion. I think a lot of the rules are there as a matter of convenience. In a utopia, citizens would all be such impeccable believers that you're right, such laws wouldn't be necessary. Some people are more devout than others, and I guess the Saudi regime believes that establishing strict laws where pain and life may be risked, it will make the messages in the Quran clearer to follow! The regime assumes their interpretation is correct, of course, which is always debatable (due to the embedding of Saudi culture in their laws).

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles If the motivation provided by Islam is so great, why does Saudi need all the oppressive laws and extreme punishments? The truth is that most people want some debauchery now and then. When premarital sex and alcohol and all sorts of other things are available, people like indulging in them. But the old men who rule these primitive backwaters will have none of it.

The motivation provided by Islam is no greater than Judaism and Christianity! It's up to people to embody the principles and follow them. Again, your perspective of oppression and extreme is different from the people who live there. I share the frustration with you that there can be isolated decisions made by a judge(s) that appear to be too harsh or inappropriate, but that doesn't mean the law or more importantly the religion itself should be questioned.

Trust me, there's lots of premarital sex and alcohol going on in Saudi Arabia (I was there till 18 ffs! ) especially on a couple of palace visits. (On another note--you may hate these guys so much but if you just had a chance to experience first-hand how they live--lol you'll probably hate them more!!!! but have SO much fun! ) But the smart citizen knows how to be discreet, just like here. If you want to have an orgy, you're not going to go to a public building and do it in public view!!!

Yes, the above scenario is not ideal, that you don't have as many freedoms for debauchery as you do here, and you have to hide to do what you really want (at least the few badasses like us). However, I think you should respect the fact that intention of the religious/legal system is to promote virtue and minimize vice, which is a commendable venture (albeit results in a few deplorable consequences).

quote:

Originally posted by Jake Benson Well, technically you can't rape any of the men in their families because that would make you a homosexual and Pakistani civil law punishes those who have gay sex with two years to life in prison.

Well, maybe I WANT to go to prison to have more gay sex!!! Ever thought of that?!!? (I see you corrected the logic in your original post Smart! )

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree Trust me, there's lots of premarital sex and alcohol going on in Saudi Arabia (I was there till 18 ffs! ) especially on a couple of palace visits.

Cool, but then what you have is a bunch of hypocrisy, lots of people publicly claiming allegiance to laws but privately breaking them. Not my idea of a good political situation, but whatever suits you, I guess...

quote:

(On another note--you may hate these guys so much but if you just had a chance to experience first-hand how they live--lol you'll probably hate them more!!!! but have SO much fun! )

I don't hate anybody for making stupid laws. I just feel sorry for people who get hurt by them.

More than ten years ago, my dad had the opportunity to move (and take his family) to Saudi for his work. I'm glad he didn't take it.

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree Well, maybe I WANT to go to prison to have more gay sex!!! Ever thought of that?!!?

Aw you are a fun Muslim. I think I heart you.

All this just further questions why people devote such large periods of their lives in helping these ungrateful idiots. I've read that some are now calling for the death penalty. What is this, the fucking middle ages?

Yes, lets burn that mother fucking witch!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Cool, but then what you have is a bunch of hypocrisy, lots of people publicly claiming allegiance to laws but privately breaking them. Not my idea of a good political situation, but whatever suits you, I guess...

As I said, this is a very small minority of the population. If the majority of the population was a hypocrite, there would be a different government system. Also, thanks for calling me a hypocrite! lol yes, I admit we all have our indulgences but they are "once in a while" like you said so that's why people can continue to live happily in a strict environment as long as they can privately indulge once in a while in the privacy in their own home.

quote:

Originally posted by Jake Benson Aw you are a fun Muslim. I think I heart you.

a/s/l?

Sudan protesters: Execute teacher

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/afric...ears/index.html

I think it's about time that some of the powerful leaders of developed countries grow some balls and begin speaking out against this bloodthirsty cult known as Islam.

I'm also sick of hearing the argument of "but it's just teh minority!!!11!1, don't judge the entire "religion" based on the actions of few."

If it's not some poor lady getting 200 lashings for being raped, or some poor bastard getting his head cut off, then it's a teacher on a verge of death row for naming some stupid teddy bear Mohammad. Where does society draw the line?

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Originally posted by Igaryok I think it's about time that some of the most powerful leaders of developed countries grow some balls and begin speaking out against this bloodthirsty cult known as Islam. I'm also sick of hearing the argument of "but it's just teh minority!!!11!1, don't judge the entire "religion" based on the actions of few."

So sorry that the effects of Chernobyl haven't subsided Maybe that's what's making you feel sick and you don't know it?

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree So sorry that the effects of Chernobyl haven't subsided Maybe that's what's making you feel sick and you don't know it?

Perhaps you should ask your Muslim cronies the same question, as it seems Chernobyl had a much greater effect on them.

And now, apparently, the people there want her executed....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071130...british_teacher

The point of this is:

What business is it of yours or anyone else's if some woman names a teddy bear Mohammed / dresses like a slut / has sex with a bunch of guys?

[We all know that when these backward crapholes talk about "morality" and "purity," they really mean the morality and purity of women.]

Why does somebody deserve to be whipped or thrown in prison for doing nothing more than offending your tender little sensibilities?

Any Sharia apologist care to answer that?

i smell World War 3 coming soon...

/time to move to canada

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles The point of this is: What business is it of yours or anyone else's if some woman names a teddy bear Mohammed / dresses like a slut / has sex with a bunch of guys? [We all know that when these backward crapholes talk about "morality" and "purity," they really mean the morality and purity of women.] Why does somebody deserve to be whipped or thrown in prison for doing nothing more than offending your tender little sensibilities? Any Sharia apologist care to answer that?

What I don't understand is - why are certain ways of expression considered to be sinful, while violence is so welcome. According to those ******s:

naming a stupid little toy, Mohammad: major Sin
lashing or death penalty: perfectly acceptable
woman is a rape victim: lash her and throw her in jail for committing adultery - she'll know better next time.

Besides, IDK who ever started proclaiming that Islam is a religion of peace. Every religion involved plenty of bloodshed throughout the history. Besides, wasn't it Mohammad himself that was telling the followers to "kill the infidels?"

guys how about this, we leave this subject alone.

Relegion is the fucking crap thats turning this world upside down, believe in who the fuck you want but know that there is no one up there to help us...

quote:

Originally posted by CGRumler And now, apparently, the people there want her executed.... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071130...british_teacher

i loved hearing about this in the news this morning muslims in mass waving machetes while calling for the execution of an educator for allowing her students to pick their own name for a stuffed animal. especially retarded when i heard from a muslim that there is nothing sacred about the name mohammed.

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