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True, true. Stupid bitch.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Quote me. Show me where I said that the ID system would be "used against us."

Here's three quotes;

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles ... but it's true that we're moving more and more toward omnipresent surveillance and tracking, and the disappearance of privacy...

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles ...The fact that nothing bad comes of something now doesn't imply that nothing bad can ever come of it...

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles That's because "motives" ultimately don't matter. Somebody can have the best motives in the world when seeking increased authority to take political action. They can be entirely noble and looking out for the good of the country. But the people who come after them may not be so noble. And that is the danger of powerful governments...

Happy?

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I do think there have been many attempts to enlarge the authority of the executive branch, sometimes at the expense of individual liberties... ...I think that the people doing this stuff see themselves as doing it for the good of the country, even if the results haven't been good at all.

Out of curiosity, how to you feel about gun ownership then?

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles What I'm "all worked up about" is the fact that some people seem to have a limitless trust in the self-restraint of government officials, when that is very far from warranted.

And some people fight for a cause that doesn't even exist (nor does it need to exist) all because some liberal media outlet hyped it.

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Originally posted by donnybrasco liberal media outlet

fuck. youre so one-dimensional.

pkc, stop "playing dumb"!!!!

" "

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN fuck. youre so one-dimensional.

lol...it all depends on your perspective, raisin. I'm not the only one in this country who sees a liberal leaning in CNN, The Boston Globe, L.A. Times, etc.

Why is it that the same people who think Fox News has an agenda just don't see one in their favorite news outlets?

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Originally posted by donnybrasco Here's three quotes; Happy?

Nope, because each of those quotes address "could," not "would." Even omni-surveillance won't necessarily be used for a bad purpose.

Don't erode important distinctions.

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Out of curiosity, how to you feel about gun ownership then?

I think individual gun ownership is a right that shouldn't be infringed upon.

Why do you ask? Thought you had me pegged as a brainless parrot of some typical leftist line?

And save me the bullshit about how I got my thoughts from the "liberal media." If you're going to treat this discussion as "pin the stereotype on the person," save your breath, because I won't be participating.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I think individual gun ownership is a right that shouldn't be infringed upon. Why do you ask? Thought you had me pegged as a brainless parrot of some typical leftist line?

Do you believe people should have the right to own Assault Rifles?

How do you feel about gun registration (which we have to excess in California)?

Do you believe in "waiting periods" before purchasing?

How about the right to carry?

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Originally posted by donnybrasco lol...it all depends on your perspective, raisin. I'm not the only one in this country who sees a liberal leaning in CNN, The Boston Globe, L.A. Times, etc. Why is it that the same people who think Fox News has an agenda just don't see one in their favorite news outlets?

Firstly, because outside dictatorial state-run media, I have never seen a more one-sided program than fox news. Ever. And as you can see in a recent thread in the PDD by lazFX, fox are now paying hard for their joke of a news outlet.

If stations like CNN DO have an agenda, they're far far more cunning about it than fox ever was. If you think CNN is as liberal as fox is conservative, then you're just flat-out wrong.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Nope, because each of those quotes address "could," not "would." Even omni-surveillance won't necessarily be used for a bad purpose. Don't erode important distinctions.

Oh please, you implied it heavily....same thing.

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Originally posted by donnybrasco Do you believe people should have the right to own Assault Rifles? How do you feel about gun registration (which we have to excess in California)? Do you believe in "waiting periods" before purchasing? How about the right to carry?

jive is hardly some rote-learned liberal media child

and no, i dont believe in general gun ownership. and neither did the constitution framers.

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Originally posted by donnybrasco Do you believe people should have the right to own Assault Rifles?

Yep.

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How do you feel about gun registration (which we have to excess in California)?

Maybe for certain high-powered weapons, but otherwise, no.

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Do you believe in "waiting periods" before purchasing?

However long it takes to do a background check, but no more.

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How about the right to carry?

Support.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Yep. Maybe for certain high-powered weapons, but otherwise, no. However long it takes to do a background check, but no more. Support.

fuck. never thought you'd be some gun-toting redneck!

yeah, we shouldnt have gun registration. what fucking planet are you on?

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Firstly, because outside dictatorial state-run media, I have never seen a more one-sided program than fox news. Ever. And as you can see in a recent thread in the PDD by lazFX, fox are now paying hard for their joke of a news outlet. If stations like CNN DO have an agenda, they're far far more cunning about it than fox ever was. If you think CNN is as liberal as fix is conservative, then you're just flat-out wrong.

Oh, if you say I'm wrong, then I must be wrong!!

Please. The Op-Eds, the stories these outlets choose to run, etc...they all lean to the left.

You don't believe this because YOU lean to the left, face it!

I know Fox News is bias, but I don't give a crap, because I see them as not only aligned closer to my viewpoints, but I see them as an alternative viewpoint to the mainstream media which we've BADLY needed in this country for decades!

Your assertions that the media which supports your POV is somehow "accurate and fair" and the one that supports mine is "flat-out wrong!" is really retarded.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN jive is hardly some rote-learned liberal media child and no, i dont believe in general gun ownership. and neither did the constitution framers.

Got guns, and a lot of them at the house, to include assault rifles. Kids shoot 'em all the time. I buy lots of ammo. Good practice. They go to war with them, so make sure I have identical military spec weapons like they use for show time.



[[[smoke]]]

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN fuck. never thought you'd be some gun-toting redneck!

I don't own a gun, I've never hunted, and I don't have any friends who own guns or hunt. Nice try, though.

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yeah, we shouldnt have gun registration. what fucking planet are you on?

I don't think that gun registration is a very effective way to stop crime.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Maybe for certain high-powered weapons, but otherwise, no.

Aren't you afraid that registration will lead to confiscation (not now, but "in the future")?

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Originally posted by donnybrasco Aren't you afraid that registration will lead to confiscation (not now, but "in the future")?

Not really, since there is a strong cultural undercurrent in the U.S. that would oppose confiscation. And I already said that I don't care whether most types of weapons are registered.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN fuck. never thought you'd be some gun-toting redneck! yeah, we shouldnt have gun registration. what fucking planet are you on?

lol...raisin, you live in a totally different culture and in a different country. Why is that foreigners gripe about the U.S. "telling everyone else what to do" throughout the world, yet they believe we're a bunch of ass-backward "rednecks" because we have a very important freedom and right guaranteed to us by our Constitution, one which THEY now feel compelled to tell us we should abolish within our own country?

The hypocrisy is vexing.

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Originally posted by donnybrasco Oh, if you say I'm wrong, then I must be wrong!!

glad we agree.

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Originally posted by donnybrasco Please. The Op-Eds, the stories these outlets choose to run, etc...they all lean to the left.

only "left" according to americans. what you consider the "left" is really more centre-centre-right (think of north-north-east).

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Originally posted by donnybrasco You don't believe this because YOU lean to the left, face it!

nah, you think im left coz youre so far right. im much more centrist.

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Originally posted by donnybrasco Your assertions that the media which supports your POV is somehow "accurate and fair" and the one that supports mine is "flat-out wrong!" is really retarded.

that's the thing. i dont see the media as representing my ideas one iota. i see most media as fairly conservative, but i am always ready to acknowledge bias when i see it (good or bad). but the idea that there is a major news stable in the US that is "left" is a complete joke, in the land of the free and home of the capitalist.

and yes, if you think CNN is as biased as fox then you ARE flat out wrong.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I don't think that gun registration is a very effective way to stop crime.

never said it was. but it is a useful tool in keeping an eye on who has what. not in the US now, youre fvcked. but in countries that havent lost the war on guns, its still useful.

and its lucky you all have your assault rifles! rabbits must be growing pretty big in texas.

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Originally posted by donnybrasco lol...raisin, you live in a totally different culture and in a different country. Why is that foreigners gripe about the U.S. "telling everyone else what to do" throughout the world, yet they believe we're a bunch of ass-backward "rednecks" because we have a very important freedom and right guaranteed to us by our Constitution, one which THEY now feel compelled to tell us we should abolish within our own country? The hypocrisy is vexing.

"important" ? don't make me fucking laugh.

and im an internationalist. i'll tell anyone what to do as i see fit. don't tell me guns have done anything in your country but bring untold death and destruction.

Guns are what gave us our country in the first place. We didn't secede from Britain by peaceful negotiation, you know.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Guns are what gave us our country in the first place. We didn't secede from Britain by peaceful negotiation, you know.

sorry, i didn't see the part in the constitution that allowed everyone the right to bear a frenchman either

Actually, France gave us this country.



edit: ^^ haha

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Not really, since there is a strong cultural undercurrent in the U.S. that would oppose confiscation. And I already said that I don't care whether most types of weapons are registered.

So you see no correlation in promoting weapons registration (even if limited) with this slippery-slope of registering humans?

It sounds to me like you're engaging in HIGHLY selective forms of promoting our freedoms.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN "important" ? don't make me fucking laugh. and im an internationalist. i'll tell anyone what to do as i see fit. don't tell me guns have done anything in your country but bring untold death and destruction.

I didn't intend this to be a gun debate thread, but I tell you what; I'll start one up in the PDD section soon so I can educate you on the subject, ok?

For a man who's so concerned about world safety, I'd think you'd be better educated about how historically, Dictatorships and Totalitarian Regimes have subjugated their unarmed people and their unarmed neighbors...causing FAR more genocide and destruction than one lone criminal with a gun ever could...only once they had done away with their ability to fight back.

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Originally posted by donnybrasco So you see no correlation in promoting weapons registration (even if limited) with this slippery-slope of registering humans? It sounds to me like you're engaging in HIGHLY selective forms of promoting our freedoms.

Anyone who's not an anarchist engages in selective promotion of freedom. This is a matter of degrees to me, not absolutes. I don't think private citizens should be allowed to own nuclear bombs, for example.

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