My fave from Untrue.
Posted by d-miurge on Jul-06-2008 15:45:
quote:
Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
What does that book have to do with this thread?
What we like is more a matter of social conditioning than a matter of "pure feelings". I read what you call "emotion in modern EDM" through that analytical prism.
From Atomic Babies liveacting at the MEMF to Dan Bell, what we like, and what implies emotions is a social construction. Of course the situation is not that radical but I think that in most part it is.
Posted by MrJiveBoJingles on Jul-06-2008 15:55:
quote:
Originally posted by d-miurge
What we like is more a matter of social conditioning than a matter of "pure feelings". I read what you call "emotion in modern EDM" through that analytical prism.
From Atomic Babies liveacting at the MEMF to Dan Bell, what we like, and what implies emotions is a social construction. Of course the situation is not that radical but I think that in most part it is.
Good lord I hate Marxist analysis of art. It's so annoyingly simple-minded.
Play some "music" composed of ping pong balls being thrown down a stairwell followed by the second movement of Beethoven's Fifth, then ask a thousand people from fifty different countries which one has clearer emotional content.
I don't think there's any reasonable doubt as to what you'd find.
Posted by MrJiveBoJingles on Jul-06-2008 16:00:
I'm sure "social conditioning" explains why my brother and I have completely opposite tastes in music.
The fact that I like classical music and he doesn't must mean that I'm aspiring to be "upper class," right?
Posted by winston on Jul-06-2008 16:12:
quote:
Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
I'm sure "social conditioning" explains why my brother and I have completely opposite tastes in music.
The fact that I like classical music and he doesn't must mean that I'm aspiring to be "upper class," right?
depends on what you mean by "classical"?
Much of classical music is divided by age and movement
there was a time when classical music was accessible to many
and there was a time when it was strictly for the Oberschicht
you can't really put "clasical" in one pigeonhole imo.
Posted by SYSTEM-J on Jul-06-2008 16:54:
Marxism is a load of shit. It takes a basic truism (The surroundings we grow up and live in will influence our lifestyle and interests) and tries to make everything explainable by economic background. It's a shitty catch-all theory that requires no thought to use.
Posted by winston on Jul-06-2008 17:08:
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Marxism is a load of shit. It takes a basic truism (The surroundings we grow up and live in will influence our lifestyle and interests) and tries to make everything explainable by economic background. It's a shitty catch-all theory that requires no thought to use.
indeed.
Posted by Project-K on Jul-06-2008 18:06:
quote:
Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Play some "music" composed of ping pong balls being thrown down a stairwell followed by the second movement of Beethoven's Fifth, then ask a thousand people from fifty different countries which one has clearer emotional content.
Unless you're really really good at throwing ping pong balls.
Posted by d-miurge on Jul-06-2008 18:28:
quote:
Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Good lord I hate Marxist analysis of art. It's so annoyingly simple-minded.
Play some "music" composed of ping pong balls being thrown down a stairwell followed by the second movement of Beethoven's Fifth, then ask a thousand people from fifty different countries which one has clearer emotional content.
I don't think there's any reasonable doubt as to what you'd find.
Don't infer unless you are sure about what you say. I can't stand marxist analysis of art either!
My point was more "Kandinskist" (I'm currently reading "Concerning the Spiritual In Art" for the third time), because it fits with my praxis of art (http://www.beatport.com/artist/the+last+atlant ).
The only common point with marxism is that it takes society as a whole, symbolized as a Triangle for Kandinsky. I prefer to quote wikipedia because it's in a better English than mine:
quote:
Originally published in 1911, Kandinsky compares the spiritual life of humanity to a large triangle similar to a pyramid; the artist has the task and the mission of leading others to the top by the exercise of his talent. The point of the Triangle is constituted only by some individuals who bring the sublime bread to men. It is a spiritual triangle which moves forward and rises slowly, even if it sometimes remains immobile. During decadent periods, souls fall to the bottom of the Triangle and men only search for the external success and ignore purely spiritual forces.
Here we are: we are socially conditioned to listen to certain kinds of music, to certain kinds of movies, etc. because the artists use a certain kind of technology, which is constantly evolving. What you call taste is your inner ability of empathy, which is built by your family, your own intelligence, and the quality of the artwork.
Posted by PETRAN on Jul-06-2008 18:33:
quote:
Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Been doing a bit of thinking about this lately:
It seems like most people experience fewer extremes of emotion as they get older, and it's harder for music or other things to provoke them into intense feelings.
So, is part of this "lack of emotion" that people talk about the subjective side of a generation of EDM listeners "growing up" and becoming more "immune" to emotional extremes?
Yeah, thats what i'am thinking, thats what i always said and i think that it is partially true. People become "habituated" to the music as they grow older, they eventually grow out of it."Habituated" is essentially like having to take "larger doses" of something in order to get the same effect. The saw-synths were like auditory opiates to our ears. But we took large "doses", we wanted more and it seems that we "didn't get what we wanted in the long-term".Trance for example didn't evolve with us to match our "habituating minds". These saw sounds stayed the same, and whilst many more new younger "trance-addicts" were attracted to the auditory drug,these saw synths eventually ended-up having no effects on us. Dissapointed, we started bashing them with hate, bullying younger addicts, telling them how "lame" they are, without understanding that they feel in the same way we used to feel. We look at our past through the lenses of today, lenses made of the present and "distorting" our memories. These distortions look funny, and we conclude that we were young, immature fools with bad taste. We like "cooler" stuff now and we have possibly acquired new tastes.
So, i'm really not sure anymore for example (and this is a subject which is discussed a lot in here) if todays trance sucks, or today's trance sucks to older trance listeners. I guess, that it is true that todays trance hasn't evolved much (due to "financial" reasons) but what contributes most to not liking, is peoples minds rather than music per se.
Now this happens ofcourse with any musical genre. "Trance" was an example and by using "We" in the first paragraph i didn't mean "me" and "You" in the literal sense (although we could be!). This "process" also happens all the time, so beware, it is quite probable that your future self will view your current self as a great fool for liking what you like now! (and the ways you behave in general)
Now, i don't say that one doesn't like a genre because he/she has become (or feels that he/she has become) "less emotional" in general. I say that when you listen to something a lot and this something doesn't change you get "less emotional with that specific something". To connect with you other "decreased emotionality" thread of yours, whilst i personally have become less emotional in general, i can still feel very emotonal with some specific types of music/genres/tunes etc. It is true that my decreased emotionality relates to the fact that i'm not emotional THAT often (and to the same extend that i used to) as i was in the past, but i believe that one can always be emotional with any forms of art regardless his/her personality changes.
Posted by MrJiveBoJingles on Jul-06-2008 18:43:
quote:
Originally posted by PETRAN
The saw-synths were like auditory opiates to our ears.
The supersaw is the opiate of the masses. Posted by PETRAN on Jul-06-2008 18:47:
quote:
Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
The supersaw is the opiate of the masses.
Yeah man! Its bad...
Posted by Clovis on Jul-06-2008 23:14:
Super-saws help me go poop in the morning.
Posted by AustralianGQ on Jul-06-2008 23:47:
i think todays trance has a pretty decent emotional force when u listen to it....atleast for me, it puts me in that "high, euphoric" mood.
Posted by PETRAN on Jul-07-2008 01:12:
quote:
Originally posted by Clovis
Super-saws help me go poop in the morning.
Its like coffee, its stimulating for a while...
Posted by MrJiveBoJingles on Jul-07-2008 01:19:
Actually, if supersaws are opiates, then they should have a constipating effect rather than a laxative one.
Posted by PETRAN on Jul-07-2008 01:33:
quote:
Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Actually, if supersaws are opiates, then they should have a constipating effect rather than a laxative one.
Yeah but then i decided that supersaw is like coffee.
"Saw synths" are like opiates, see my original post!
