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-- Legalization of pot
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quote:

Originally posted by Theresa Did you not read the part where I said that it would have to be monitored? So what... we're going to do a drug test and send it to the lab each time there is a suspicion that the person had been smoking up? That can take weeks to get the results back... what do you suppose they do in the meantime? Krypton, they might be able to come up with something to test how much THC has been ingested, but I still wonder at how effective it would be to measure how impaired someone is. I guess they would have to put a limit on it as they have alcohol. Wouldn't it be wiser to wait until such a device is created?

It doesn't take weeks to get back - minutes maybe. And that's what zero tolerance policies were created for within certain occupations.

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa My "wild and stupid" claims are my opinions. Obviously I don't know if that is how it will pan out, but that is what I suspect.

This is all fine and well, however opinions that don't really have much factual basis probably shouldn't be what we use to create legislature.

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Originally posted by Theresa Funny you should say that. Do you think I have never smoked pot before? I know exactly what I meant by that because I have smoked some weed that had me on my ass tripping right out. Some people don't have as a high a tolerance to the shit as others... and that could be considered a very hard thing to measure, and a hard thing to monitor when it comes to situations in which it should not be used.

Some people have immense tolerances for booze, yet we still don't tolerate them flying planes or driving automobiles.

And the very fact that you were "tripping your ass off" says you aren't all that familiar with marijuana.

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa As for the comment about Holland... I have never personally been there, so I don't really know how their society runs, and how productive they are as people. However, I do know that they are incredibly liberal, and that they accept a much different and relaxed lifestyle than what we do in the Western world.

Less than 10% of the Dutch population actually smokes and the Netherlands is a Western country in the Western world.

And the only thing they're relaxed about is tolerance for people to treat their own bodies as they please so long as they aren't harming anyone else.

The comment about "their productivity as a people" just reeks of ignorance.

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa Perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea if there were more efficient ways of monitoring the effects, and when people are under the influence. Right now though, from my experiences, and from what I have seen, I don't think it would be beneficial in the grand scheme of things.

Your experience is meaningless if for no other reason than how clearly limited it is. We have efficient ways of monitoring the effects, and people who are just generally under the influence of marijuana are hardly the "unpredictable druggies" you make them out to be.

You really opened your mouth without knowing at all what you are talking about in here, Theresa.

quote:

Originally posted by RJT It doesn't take weeks to get back - minutes maybe. And that's what zero tolerance policies were created for within certain occupations.

+ 1


the truck drivers that drive between USA and Canada have to go for drug test in which they also do a urine sample.....and I have myself told many people that they have failed the test and cannot get a job for what they have applied for.......One dood in paticular was actually drinking cranberry juice or was it something else all day so that he could pass the test but he failed anyways LOL

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa Not to mention that weed isn't as "clean" as it once was. Weed can really fuck you up these days... and not in a good way.

My goodness, I also just read through the entire post that this is quoted from and have to say that I really can't believe all of the nonsense you've spouted off here.

You really haven't the foggiest - and weed today is absolutely no different than it was 50 or 100 years ago. This whole fiction that marijuana is somehow unbelievably more potent than it was just a few years ago was nothing more than a product of the Reagan administration twisting facts to fit their war on drugs.

I've tried my best to refrain from insulting you or your intelligence, but you make it very difficult when you sound like you're a soldier in the U.S. war on drugs.

Drug noobs are almost as bad as drug addicts themselves at spouting BS about the crap they smoke/inject/sniff/swallow.

If Whitney Houston came on TA and tried to tell us that coke was cool we'd be like "lol, stfu cracka, amirite?".

Same thing applies to this Theresa person, clearly you've smoked maybe 1 joint and puked cause you're a pussy and now you've made a point of exaggerating the effects of weed and have painted it with the same brush as much harder drugs like coke and E. Yes, Coke and E aren't as pure nowadays, but how the fuck could weed have possibly changed?

The shit that gets "imported" en mass into the US through British Columbia is probably the "cleanest" of the clean, given the guy that controls the vast majority of the "BC Bud" export is just a weed nut himself and wants everyone to smoke all the time. (For his profit yes and because he just plain loves the stuff he grows).

quote:

Originally posted by ******** Untrue marijuana cultivated these days in general is way more potent then it was 50 years ago. What do you think breeding programs would do, same with any cultivated plant or animal, the strains get stronger with better seeds. This is my impression anyway - of course there arn't that many people around to vouche for that fact.

So what you're saying is that no one understood how to cultivate marijuana prior to now, so therefore it was all much shittier quality than it is now?



Give me a fucking break. It's not my problem that the U.S. government, and apparently most people in the U.S., haven't been able to find good weed for decades - that certainly doesn't mean that it hasn't existed.

Awww, so this thread is just going to die now?

I thought it had just started to become fun.

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Originally posted by RJT Awww, so this thread is just going to die now? I thought it had just started to become fun.

Just vote and we can consider it a success

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Originally posted by nchs09 Just vote and we can consider it a success

I always do.

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Originally posted by Theresa Funny you should say that. Do you think I have never smoked pot before? I know exactly what I meant by that because I have smoked some weed that had me on my ass tripping right out. Some people don't have as a high a tolerance to the shit as others... and that could be considered a very hard thing to measure, and a hard thing to monitor when it comes to situations in which it should not be used.

From your narrow-minded post, yes, that's the first thing that came to my mind. But then again you live in Canada and go to school so its unlikely that you've never smoked. However, that statement of yours is still really out there. Of course weed can fuck you up. Anything can if you do enough of it. But you make it sound as if weed will fuck you up in ways you can't even imagine, which is pretty exaggerated. And the whole "nowadays" part...how would you even know what the THC level is in marijuana nowadays compared to 10/15/20 years ago?

Weed doesn't fuck you up in a bad way; if anything it sounds like you probably got really high; couldn't handle it and panicked and now you think weed is really really bad. You sound like my friend who smoked 2 different kinds of weed within an hour, started choking for an unknown reason and now he thinks that anyone that mixes strains of weed is raising his or her chances of dying.

Lets face it weed is never going to be legalised in the US or Canada ever! Both of our Governments suck and we have way to many closed minded ignorant people living here. Ive been interested in this topic for years and ive realized that it wont ever happen here in Canada atleast. Its bad enough the US wanted to put Marc Emery and his team away for life for selling seeds. Here in Canada they would not even have faced jail time so we where going to extradite them because we are the United States bitch. IMO weed is less bad that ciggarates and no matter how many studies prove that fuk all is ever gonna happen

I dont care anymore tho because I cant smoke weed anymore due to anxiety reasons

quote:

Originally posted by infinity HiGH From your narrow-minded post, yes, that's the first thing that came to my mind. But then again you live in Canada and go to school so its unlikely that you've never smoked. However, that statement of yours is still really out there. Of course weed can fuck you up. Anything can if you do enough of it. But you make it sound as if weed will fuck you up in ways you can't even imagine, which is pretty exaggerated. And the whole "nowadays" part...how would you even know what the THC level is in marijuana nowadays compared to 10/15/20 years ago? Weed doesn't fuck you up in a bad way; if anything it sounds like you probably got really high; couldn't handle it and panicked and now you think weed is really really bad. You sound like my friend who smoked 2 different kinds of weed within an hour, started choking for an unknown reason and now he thinks that anyone that mixes strains of weed is raising his or her chances of dying.

LOL!

No.

I have smoked more weed in one year than I would wager some of you have smoked in several years. I was heavily into drugs for a period, so I am not just talking out of my ass.

One night I was smoking with some friends who had a very strong strain of weed. I took several hits from the bong, and ended up becoming incredibly incoherent and disoriented. And trust me, it certainly wasn't the first time I had gotten high. (Perhaps you read into what I wrote before and thought that I was having a high similar to shrooms or something?)

What I was trying to illustrate was that not all people react the same to chemicals. Apparently that strength of THC really fucked me up, and there was absolutely no way I would have been able to drive, or do much else that would require any motor skills.

So my primary concern is that people will assume that if it is legal, then it is harmless and they are safe to do whatever they want. Without any way of monitoring the levels of THC people are ingesting, and how it is actually effecting their behaviour and response time, I don't think it is really safe.

I have been in the car with many people who have been baked. Sure, some of them drove relatively well, but most of them were far too easily distracted. I was driving with a friend who got so into his stereo for a minute that he ended up driving into oncoming traffic.

THC has the ability to slow your response time, and impairs both judgment and motor skills.

Anyway, can anyone give me any sound reason that legalizing pot would actually be beneficial to society as a whole?

As for getting rid of the "underground drug ring", I don't think it will make any difference. As long as people are able to grow it, people are going to try and sell it. If the gov't legalizes it, they will most likely want to cash in themselves, and it will probably be illegal or highly restrictive to sell it anyway. That brings you right back to where you started.

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa Anyway, can anyone give me any sound reason that legalizing pot would actually be beneficial to society as a whole? As for getting rid of the "underground drug ring", I don't think it will make any difference. As long as people are able to grow it, people are going to try and sell it. If the gov't legalizes it, they will most likely want to cash in themselves, and it will probably be illegal or highly restrictive to sell it anyway. That brings you right back to where you started.

The reason that weed is a schedule 1 narcotic (along with methamphetamine and crack) is the same reason that you will never hear congress discussing prohibiting tobacco...money. The federal government has received billions of dollars from anti-drug lobbing groups over the past 20 years, the same way it receives billions of dollars from the tobacco industry, anyone see the connection yet? Money talks, you have to realize that politicians are humans, they are also very productive and intelligent (for the most part) and will not pass laws that wont benefit themselves!

Sadly, the harmless stoners of the united states and canada, are as a whole hardly organized or prosperous, why would the govt. give up the billions of dollars it receives to help these people out, even if passing a law to legalize weed made sense, which it does. Why are alcohol and tobacco legal and not weed?

We know for a fact that; there has never been a reported death from a weed overdose, weed does not cause a physical dependency (this means that you could smoke weed every day of your life and quit without physical withdrawal symptoms IE headaches, cold sweats, etc)...it definitely can become a mental addiction though, we also know that weed does have beneficial medical uses, the most popular being treatment with cancer patients that have chronic nausea and trouble eating. Now what do we know about tobacco and alcohol, both cause physical dependencies, both can cause an overdose (if you extracted the pure nicotine from one can of chew, it could kill a non-smoker easily!) and both significantly decrease life expectancy (I will add here that not one case of lung cancer has been reported from a smoker who solely smoke marijuana!)

The reason that weed is illegal is not because it is a dangerous drug, or that the govt. feels that we as a people are not responsible enough to have that freedom. It is because of the money that comes from the anti-drug groups. The only reason that the medical marijuana initiative was added to the California ballot, is because of a small group of very rich stoners, donated a lot of money, and spent a lot of money lobbying politicians!

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa Anyway, can anyone give me any sound reason that legalizing pot would actually be beneficial to society as a whole?

Here are our top ten reasons marijuana should be legalized:

10. Prohibition has failed to control the use and domestic production of marijuana.
The government has tried to use criminal penalties to prevent marijuana use for over 75 years and yet: marijuana is now used by over 25 million people annually, cannabis is currently the largest cash crop in the United States, and marijuana is grown all over the planet. Claims that marijuana prohibition is a successful policy are ludicrous and unsupported by the facts, and the idea that marijuana will soon be eliminated from America and the rest of the world is a ridiculous fantasy.

9. Arrests for marijuana possession disproportionately affect blacks and Hispanics and reinforce the perception that law enforcement is biased and prejudiced against minorities.
African-Americans account for approximately 13% of the population of the United States and about 13.5% of annual marijuana users, however, blacks also account for 26% of all marijuana arrests. Recent studies have demonstrated that blacks and Hispanics account for the majority of marijuana possession arrests in New York City, primarily for smoking marijuana in public view. Law enforcement has failed to demonstrate that marijuana laws can be enforced fairly without regard to race; far too often minorities are arrested for marijuana use while white/non-Hispanic Americans face a much lower risk of arrest.

8. A regulated, legal market in marijuana would reduce marijuana sales and use among teenagers, as well as reduce their exposure to other drugs in the illegal market.
The illegality of marijuana makes it more valuable than if it were legal, providing opportunities for teenagers to make easy money selling it to their friends. If the excessive profits for marijuana sales were ended through legalization there would be less incentive for teens to sell it to one another. Teenage use of alcohol and tobacco remain serious public health problems even though those drugs are legal for adults, however, the availability of alcohol and tobacco is not made even more widespread by providing kids with economic incentives to sell either one to their friends and peers.

7. Legalized marijuana would reduce the flow of money from the American economy to international criminal gangs.
Marijuana�s illegality makes foreign cultivation and smuggling to the United States extremely profitable, sending billions of dollars overseas in an underground economy while diverting funds from productive economic development.

6. Marijuana�s legalization would simplify the development of hemp as a valuable and diverse agricultural crop in the United States, including its development as a new bio-fuel to reduce carbon emissions.
Canada and European countries have managed to support legal hemp cultivation without legalizing marijuana, but in the United States opposition to legal marijuana remains the biggest obstacle to development of industrial hemp as a valuable agricultural commodity. As US energy policy continues to embrace and promote the development of bio-fuels as an alternative to oil dependency and a way to reduce carbon emissions, it is all the more important to develop industrial hemp as a bio-fuel source � especially since use of hemp stalks as a fuel source will not increase demand and prices for food, such as corn. Legalization of marijuana will greatly simplify the regulatory burden on prospective hemp cultivation in the United States.

5. Prohibition is based on lies and disinformation.
Justification of marijuana�s illegality increasingly requires distortions and selective uses of the scientific record, causing harm to the credibility of teachers, law enforcement officials, and scientists throughout the country. The dangers of marijuana use have been exaggerated for almost a century and the modern scientific record does not support the reefer madness predictions of the past and present. Many claims of marijuana�s danger are based on old 20th century prejudices that originated in a time when science was uncertain how marijuana produced its characteristic effects. Since the cannabinoid receptor system was discovered in the late 1980s these hysterical concerns about marijuana�s dangerousness have not been confirmed with modern research. Everyone agrees that marijuana, or any other drug use such as alcohol or tobacco use, is not for children. Nonetheless, adults have demonstrated over the last several decades that marijuana can be used moderately without harmful impacts to the individual or society.

4. Marijuana is not a lethal drug and is safer than alcohol.
It is established scientific fact that marijuana is not toxic to humans; marijuana overdoses are nearly impossible, and marijuana is not nearly as addictive as alcohol or tobacco. It is unfair and unjust to treat marijuana users more harshly under the law than the users of alcohol or tobacco.

3. Marijuana is too expensive for our justice system and should instead be taxed to support beneficial government programs.
Law enforcement has more important responsibilities than arresting 750,000 individuals a year for marijuana possession, especially given the additional justice costs of disposing of each of these cases. Marijuana arrests make justice more expensive and less efficient in the United States, wasting jail space, clogging up court systems, and diverting time of police, attorneys, judges, and corrections officials away from violent crime, the sexual abuse of children, and terrorism. Furthermore, taxation of marijuana can provide needed and generous funding of many important criminal justice and social programs.

2. Marijuana use has positive attributes, such as its medical value and use as a recreational drug with relatively mild side effects.
Many people use marijuana because they have made an informed decision that it is good for them, especially Americans suffering from a variety of serious ailments. Marijuana provides relief from pain, nausea, spasticity, and other symptoms for many individuals who have not been treated successfully with conventional medications. Many American adults prefer marijuana to the use of alcohol as a mild and moderate way to relax. Americans use marijuana because they choose to, and one of the reasons for that choice is their personal observation that the drug has a relatively low dependence liability and easy-to-manage side effects. Most marijuana users develop tolerance to many of marijuana�s side effects, and those who do not, choose to stop using the drug. Marijuana use is the result of informed consent in which individuals have decided that the benefits of use outweigh the risks, especially since, for most Americans, the greatest risk of using marijuana is the relatively low risk of arrest.

1. Marijuana users are determined to stand up to the injustice of marijuana probation and accomplish legalization, no matter how long or what it takes to succeed.
Despite the threat of arrests and a variety of other punishments and sanctions marijuana users have persisted in their support for legalization for over a generation. They refuse to give up their long quest for justice because they believe in the fundamental values of American society. Prohibition has failed to silence marijuana users despite its best attempts over the last generation. The issue of marijuana�s legalization is a persistent issue that, like marijuana, will simply not go away. Marijuana will be legalized because marijuana users will continue to fight for it until they succeed.

i'm in holland

haha!!

*points*

quote:

Originally posted by Palladium i'm in holland haha!! *points*

I loled.

Omer

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa As for getting rid of the "underground drug ring", I don't think it will make any difference. As long as people are able to grow it, people are going to try and sell it. If the gov't legalizes it, they will most likely want to cash in themselves, and it will probably be illegal or highly restrictive to sell it anyway. That brings you right back to where you started.

wow, that's a spectacularly misinformed attitude you've got there. Of course it will make a difference. People are no longer forced to buy weed from the criminal element, duh. Same as any substance, the people that benefit most from its illegality are those that break the law selling it. People sell drugs because there's a huge profit to be had, and there's a huge profit to be had because its illegal.

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa Anyway, can anyone give me any sound reason that legalizing pot would actually be beneficial to society as a whole?

Firstly, why should something have to be "beneficial to society" as a reason to legalise? How about beneficial to the individual?

Anywayz, the benefits include

Reducing the profits from organised crime
Reducing the backlog in the judicial system that have to deal with minor drug offences
Reducing jail time for those commiting non-violent crimes lessening the pressure on corrective services
Reducing the tax dollars spent on enforcing victimless crimes
Having similar laws for similar substances, ie recognising that pot is far less dangerous than both alcohol and tobacco

Theresa gives strong reasoning for the justification of the eugenics movement.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Theresa gives strong reasoning for the justification of the eugenics movement.

hahaha. harsh, but fair.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Theresa gives strong reasoning for the justification of the eugenics movement.

I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie

Ron Paul FTW!

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa Anyway, can anyone give me any sound reason that legalizing pot would actually be beneficial to society as a whole?

No one really can..... We just like to smoke it and legalize it for our own benefit....

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Originally posted by Theresa Krypton, they might be able to come up with something to test how much THC has been ingested, but I still wonder at how effective it would be to measure how impaired someone is. I guess they would have to put a limit on it as they have alcohol. Wouldn't it be wiser to wait until such a device is created?

I think that current guidelines are good enough to determine if someone is impaired and driving. Pull them over, you might smell the odor of marijuana smoke coming from the car, or you might be able to tell in the person's demeanor they are intoxicated whereas a field sobriety test is then conducted. Such a device like a THC counter being used like a Breathalyzer really isn't needed.

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa Anyway, can anyone give me any sound reason that legalizing pot would actually be beneficial to society as a whole?

Aside from it being something else the government can tax the shit out of, it will take significant amounts of money away from organized crime, create jobs, and perhaps most importantly it might lead to there actually being fewer and fewer people who are as ignorant about marijuana as you are.



You really, really need to stop. You aren't fooling anyone, and no one here is buying any of the shit that you're selling.

Taxing it enough will lead to the continuation of the underground (i.e. non-taxed) market.

Tobacco and alcohol both have barriers that make underground markets less likely (tobacco is difficult to process, and people would rather not buy bootleg alcohol because it might be manufactured improperly and poisonous). Marijuana doesn't really have things like that, so you'd have to be more careful with heavy taxes...

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